Magic: the Gathering XII: Vote Nicol Bolas for 2012! Discard their hands!

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It's really not good when my first thought about a card is "That'll be sick in Type 4," but that's what I thought about Drogskol Reaver. You know, because it means the card is pretty terrible. Costing 7 mana is not very good, Even if it draws some extra cards, it's very fragile. I could see it possibly being playable in EDH, but I don't think it'd be worth the cost even if you did a lot of the time. Cards like that are cards that people kill on sight, and being a Creature with no defensive abilities, it doesn't seem worthwhile.

On the other hand, double strike is a sweet ability.

Jar of Eyeballs is killed by the text "creature you control." If it were any creature, then it'd be playable. As is, the amount of work you have to go through is probably only going to be worth it in a small subset of decks, especially since it is really power-filtering, not raw card draw like Skullclamp.

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One question about Jar of eyeballs, do I still get two eyeball counters off this?

Edit: what if I have two out do I some how get to take 4 eyeball counters from the creatures?

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Originally Posted by Androgeus

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One question about Jar of eyeballs, do I still get two eyeball counters off this?

Edit: what if I have two out do I some how get to take 4 eyeball counters from the creatures?

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You also get two eyeballs from Xiahou-Dun, the One-Eyed, and One-Eyed Scarecrow. Also apparently Tezzeret's Gambit was keeping a spare eyeball in his pocket, just in case he ran across a jar of the things.

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Originally Posted by MammonAzrael

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Oh, I agree that it may not fit. I think it'll be worth testing, probably in a very creature heavy version, but it is certainly possible that it just isn't good enough. And there is pretty much no way I could see an argument for cutting Splinterfright or the Wurm for it.

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Wonder if it might not find a place in a BG zombie deck, though that is going to probably hinge on the availability of more off color zombies. Still will definitely be fun to watch people's faces if Zombie Apocalypse drops it on the board.

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I'll definitely have to try out Jar of Eyeballs for my B/W self-sacrifice deck. I regularly have 3+ of my creatures dying every turn, if not more, so this gives me a ton of potential digging.

In regards to how much physical copies of the Razorverge Thickets actually go for on eBay (I erroneously gave the price for digital ones), two recent auctions for four ended with--counting shipping--$25.33 and $18.49 respectively. So you can definitely get a group of four for under $20...though how much under I can't say without a bit more data.

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After discussing it a bit, Drogskol Reaver might actually be a sweet threat. Aggressive decks really lose if you get to keep it in play and it's about as vulnerable to the aggro decks as any Titan.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

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After discussing it a bit, Drogskol Reaver might actually be a sweet threat. Aggressive decks really lose if you get to keep it in play and it's about as vulnerable to the aggro decks as any Titan.

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It dies to Dismember, and doesn't have any impact on coming into play. I'm not seeing it.

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Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete

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It dies to Dismember, and doesn't have any impact on coming into play. I'm not seeing it.

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Who plays Dismember these days? It's not very good in the current format. Drogskol Reaver beats Illusions if it stays in play, unlike Consecrated Sphinx or Sun Titan. The life gain makes the aggro decks cringe.

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It's hard to say which one is flat out better since if either of them enters the field and isn't taken out right away, you've got a huge advantage. I'd argue that the Drogskol Reaver is slightly better, at least against aggro. With Consecrated Sphinx, you can play it and block maybe 1 of your opponent's creatures. It doesn't matter how many cards you drew if he's got lethal on the board. Drogskol Reaver gives 6 life in addition to blocking a creature, which could be the difference between life and death in a close game. As a downside, Reaver costs 1 more mana to cast, and draws you cards a little later in your opponent's turn, which could be relevant if you're needing to pull a Doom Blade to take out his Signal Pest or somthing like that.

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3 life, unless their creature doesn't die to 3 First Strike damage.

If you get to attack with Drogskol Reaver, aggro decks stop being able to win. You gain life and draw cards, and they probably don't have the kind of threats to push through that. You also draw cards from Pristine Talisman, which is an increasingly useful control card these days. (Also Timely Reinforcements, which matters less as that already beats aggro.)

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That's actually a good point, Pristine Talisman giving you cards means you could very easily be drawing cards off of Drogskol Reaver before your turn even ends, then use that floating mana to cast whatever you draw, like the aforementioned Doom Blade.

Anyways, I think it's fair to say that it at the very least works as a very close substitute for Consecrated Sphinx, even if turns out to be not quite as good.

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Considering from what I've seen Consecrated Sphinx is only good in the control mirror, Drogskol Reaver might be a worthwhile replacement.

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New Sorin seems awesome. This is the first time we've seen emblems outside of an ultimate; plus, they stack for greater benefit, and have awesome synergy with Sorin's +1. Still, he needs time to build up, and has less immediate board presence than Liliana. Overall, pretty awesome, though.

Dark Ascension Spoilers.

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http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...27x1cck_en.jpg

Holy. Freaking. Crap. Sorin is scary. From a flavor perspective, the first and third abilities are fantastic (though the second is rather meh), the art, the name, it's all excellent. And if you read the article revealing him, he created Avacyn! Which certainly confirms that he was planeswalking long before the Time Spiral events...I wonder how much he misses his near limitless power?

Mechanically, he's a stalling beast. Able to churn out tokens that not only chump, but actively increase your life total, he'll be eating up a lot of turns. The emblem looks promising, especially since it looks like you could get multiples and really make some great lifelinkers. And that ultimate...what an ultimate! Like Nicol Bolas's, it feels so brutally perfect, while not just saying "You win."

While some planeswalkers never live up to their hype, I expect Sorin to demand a high price, and deliver (though thankfully his multicolor status will help keep him from getting too crazy). He's the right mana cost, he protects himself, creates a stream of threats, and his ultimate will close out games.

And as a side note, the trailers there making are pretty nifty, seeing how they modify the card art as much as they do.

Additional cards following shortly. Just had to get that out ASAP! :smalltongue:

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...f3hty2v_en.jpg

I'm getting tingling sensations. Astral Slide 2.0 anyone? This could see some serious action, and I hope to be playing it! Not much to say here other than there will be a deck for it and Burning Vengeance. it also happens to have a fantastic interaction with Gravecrawler.

http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-co...Aristocrat.jpg

I feel kind good that my first thought was Giant Solifuge, and then I scrolled down and LSV made the same comparison right off. His article (linked) sums up most of my feelings - she's a dangerous beater that will end games with endurance, but she'll be competing with Olivia. She isn't immediately discounted, but it's stiff competition. And finally, I think the art is gorgeous. Makes me think a bit about a scary vampire Leia.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...1ecnowu_en.jpg

Limited powerhouse. I like the new twist on firebreating. I'd probably prefer this to Balefire Dragon, and like Balefire, these gothic-styled dragons are incredible looking. And Thalia is crazy; the only allies dragons have are themselves! And in a gameplay sense they'll more often be boosting vamps and wolves than humans!

http://static.starcitygames.com/sale...XTnJt29aZS.jpghttp://static.starcitygames.com/sale...rssMML6ume.jpg

Chapin really goes into describing Loyal Cathar, way more than I could. Read his article. Short version, this guy could be a solid roleplayer, like Doomed Traveler.

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Holy...Self-mill gets better and better! Now I can draw when I flash-back spells? Including the new Rare that double mills X?! Yes please! That makes Dream Twist a potential two mana game winner for me, or Forbidden Alchemy, or most of the other spells in my self mill deck!

...And I want Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and I want him now. Where are you getting word about fluff though Mammon?

Callos: Please Spoiler all comments about cards yet to be released. While I'm not sure which people those are on this forum, some people do not want to be spoiled on the set before it is released. Thank you!

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Yeah, Secrets of the Dead + Gravecrawler. Making this Zombie deck.

Sorin is pretty awesome. I'm glad I was wrong and he's WB, because I kinda want to try to build a WB deck of some kind. He actually looks like he might support some kind of WB Tokens deck. Not only does he make his own tokens, but the ability to create Emblems is a really nice way to Anthem without any risk of actually losing your anthems. I mean, increasing the power of all your random tokens is really what you want, right? And there are a lot of ways to benefit from Tokens in WB. Oh, and, you know, I wanted more of an excuse to slot some Proliferate into a White deck because mise with Mikaeus. Proliferating Sorin seems like a worthwhile reason to do so if I did that.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

Callos: Please Spoiler all comments about cards yet to be released. While I'm not sure which people those are on this forum, some people do not want to be spoiled on the set before it is released. Thank you!

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Actually, you'd think that if people don't want to know about so called "spoilers" they'd avoid the MTG thread in the two preview weeks...



Also...


WHAT? DARK ASCENSION IS THE NEXT SET? I WASN'T PLANNING ON KNOWING WHAT THE NAME OF THIS SET WERE UNTIL THE THIRD SET IS RELEASED! I HATE PEOPLE WHO SAY THE NAME OF THE NEXT SET BEFORE THE SET AFTER IT IS RELEASED!


:smalltongue:


@Callos: Try DailyMtg.com. It's the WotC site for spoilers/daily mtg related articles.

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Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Where are you getting word about fluff though Mammon?

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Click on the image. I've linked each image to the corresponding article that previews the card in question.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

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Yeah, Secrets of the Dead + Gravecrawler. Making this Zombie deck.

Sorin is pretty awesome. I'm glad I was wrong and he's WB, because I kinda want to try to build a WB deck of some kind. He actually looks like he might support some kind of WB Tokens deck. Not only does he make his own tokens, but the ability to create Emblems is a really nice way to Anthem without any risk of actually losing your anthems. I mean, increasing the power of all your random tokens is really what you want, right? And there are a lot of ways to benefit from Tokens in WB. Oh, and, you know, I wanted more of an excuse to slot some Proliferate into a White deck because mise with Mikaeus. Proliferating Sorin seems like a worthwhile reason to do so if I did that.

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Oh yes. And note that it also works with Burning Vengeance. I'm thinking some kind of Grixis deck is possible here. Possibly with Zombie Infestation to fuel the Gravecrawler.

Sorin sure plays well in WB. What I'm wondering now is if Wizards will print out emblems. Perhaps like Poison counters, they'll be just like tokens. While I'd love to play a WB token deck with Sorin, I suspect I'll focus more on the Vengeance deck, due to it likely being much less pricey.

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Mana fixing is bad enough that I'd stick to 2 colors, and playing blue with a Zombie Aggro shell seems better to me. I mean, you also get Skaab Ruinator, because that guy needed to cantrip.

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I would very much like a Sorin. just one. It has been ages since I've done a W/B deck.

Hopefully there'll be some more incentive for that in this set. It'll be fun to remake that deck. Maybe with more desolation angels. :smallamused:

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Originally Posted by The-Mage-King

Actually, you'd think that if people don't want to know about so called "spoilers" they'd avoid the MTG thread in the two preview weeks...

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Yeah, well, it's possible that someone is coming here for deck advice and doesn't want to be spoiled on the new set. We offer deck advice, and so that person would be within their right mind to come here.

And in previous years, when the spoilers were less secretive, I enjoy not having to be spoiled about cards before they are revealed on the Wizards website. I prefer to see it all there, rather than hearing whispers. So having people spoil discussion is pleasing to me.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

Yeah, well, it's possible that someone is coming here for deck advice and doesn't want to be spoiled on the new set. We offer deck advice, and so that person would be within their right mind to come here.

And in previous years, when the spoilers were less secretive, I enjoy not having to be spoiled about cards before they are revealed on the Wizards website. I prefer to see it all there, rather than hearing whispers. So having people spoil discussion is pleasing to me.

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If you do not please the PokeClaus, when it is time for your first pokemon, instead of a shiny Charmander, Bulbasaur, or Squirtle, you will be presented with Magikarp that has swallowed an Everstone. You have been warned.

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Originally Posted by MammonAzrael

If you do not please the PokeClaus, when it is time for your first pokemon, instead of a shiny Charmander, Bulbasaur, or Squirtle, you will be presented with Magikarp that has swallowed an Everstone. You have been warned.

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...I want a magicarp that swallowed an everstone. Imagine the cred of being champion with that as your starter!

...New thing to discuss in the Pokemon thread.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

Callos: Please Spoiler all comments about cards yet to be released. While I'm not sure which people those are on this forum, some people do not want to be spoiled on the set before it is released. Thank you!

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Yeah, Secrets of the Dead + Gravecrawler. Making this Zombie deck.

Sorin is pretty awesome. I'm glad I was wrong and he's WB, because I kinda want to try to build a WB deck of some kind. He actually looks like he might support some kind of WB Tokens deck. Not only does he make his own tokens, but the ability to create Emblems is a really nice way to Anthem without any risk of actually losing your anthems. I mean, increasing the power of all your random tokens is really what you want, right? And there are a lot of ways to benefit from Tokens in WB. Oh, and, you know, I wanted more of an excuse to slot some Proliferate into a White deck because mise with Mikaeus. Proliferating Sorin seems like a worthwhile reason to do so if I did that.

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You mean like this one?

4x Doomed Traveler
4x Perilous Myr
3x Devouring Swarm
4x Roc Egg
3x Bloodline Keeper

4x Altar's Reap
2x Doom Blade
2x Morbid Plunder
3x Day of Judgement

4x Intangible Virtue
3x Mimic Vat

4x Isolated Chapel
10x Plains
10x Swamp

I've been playing around with this for the past few days, and it's been doing me pretty solid. Could probably still use some improvement, but right now probably the only thing I need is a good sideboard. Timely Reinforcements is obvious, but other than that I'm not sure what to add. I'll probably find out more once I actually start playing against tournament-grade decks.

Yes and no. Yes in that I'd probably play the same colors. No in that I probably wouldn't play most of those cards.

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This reveal of Sorin, and the emo-angel picture someone posted a while back, really makes me wonder what Avacyn herself will look like since the title of the third set 'suggests' we might be seeing her in card form. And, if we do, my hankering to make an Angel/Demon B/W deck will be quite vicious indeed.

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Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

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This reveal of Sorin, and the emo-angel picture someone posted a while back, really makes me wonder what Avacyn herself will look like since the title of the third set 'suggests' we might be seeing her in card form. And, if we do, my hankering to make an Angel/Demon B/W deck will be quite vicious indeed.

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I almost didn't believe the twist at first, or to be precise, didn't believe that that was the twist they were going for.

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And then "Avacyn, my angel, what has befallen you?" from Sorin. :smallbiggrin:

This is why I love the stories. This, right here.

You know, I'm quite happy with Sorin's back story. It makes him seem so much more the Planeswalker than the others, with the exception of the big man himself, Nicol Bolas. Spoilers for the sake of politeness.

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Looking at the Planeswalkers and their particular storylines, you have:

Jace/Chandra - Some sort of card based will they/won't they. Magic's unofficial official couple, and from what I've seen not much more. Partly being manipulated by Nicol Bolas, but then who isn't?

Gideon - The third wheel to Chandra's and Jace's Will They/Won't They

Garruk - Cursed by Lilliana. Fairly standard revenge quest.

Lilliana - Hunting the demons she sold her soul to. Pretty much the same as Garruk.

Ajani - Had his family killed by Nicol Bolas. Thought he got revenge, turned out he failed, might have actually made Bolas more powerful. Went on to become...?

Elspeth, Koth, and Karn - Off fighting Phyrexia. Doubtful they can make many more appearances outside of other Phyrexian themed sets, lest they spoil other worlds with the Oil.

Venser - Dead. If he gets reprinted he will probably be from some other point in the time stream.

Sarkhan - Manipulated by Nicol Bolas. Unique in that he volunteered.

Tezzeret - Ok, he actually managed to achieve something. Now the new Phyrexian Father of Machines. Also working for Nicol Bolas. Probably busy manipulating Koth, Elspeth, and Karn.

Nicol Bolas - Manipulating everyone else as he rebuilds his power base. In the past few sets we have seen him unsunder Alara, arrange the release of the Eldrazi, and at least indirectly manipulate the events on Mirrodin. Would not be surprised to find out he arranged the murder of Avacyn. Why? Because...

Sorin - Responsible for the creation of Avacyn. Reasonably, that also means that all the wards and charms she powered are being indirectly powered by him. Also 1/3rd of the trio that sealed away the Eldrazi in the first place. From the sounds of things he is the Planeswalker equivalent of a blood thirsy Batman, lurking in the shadows and taking down threats to the grander scheme of things. Probably the only one who actually poses a threat to Nicol Bolas.

Also, does the events of Time Spiral affect other Planeswalkers, or just the Dominarian ones?

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Originally Posted by Foeofthelance

Also, does the events of Time Spiral affect other Planeswalkers, or just the Dominarian ones?

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Everybody. Note that several of the current walkers are not from Dominaria (Koth, Ajani, and probably Sorin too, and those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head as having easy proof).

Honestly, on the topic of Sorin (spoilers, I guess?):

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I find it unlikely that he was a walker on par with Bolas or Urza or the other classic walkers back in the good ol' days, for the simple reason that very very few of them survived Time Spiral. None of the Nine Titans survive, certainly. Karn is reduced in power, as is Nicol Bolas. Niv-Mizzet, who appeared to gain his spark at the end of Rav block may survive, but we have no evidence to support that point. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that Bolas only survived due to his extreme power and his paranoid levels of planning.

My bet is that Sorin, though obviously quite powerful, was never on par with the big guys, instead falling into a category like that of Teferi or Leshrac and that he endured Time Spiral by virtue of having invested much of his power elsewhere (Avacyn or the hedrons, perhaps). Of course, this is cold hard speculation, but it seems reasonable. We have no reason to believe that anyone other than Karn and Nicol could endure the events of TS (and I'm not even sure how Karn did, has that ever been explained?).