-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Yeah no. If we were speaking about CP agents then it would be one thing.
But we are not. This is Marine officers. They are directly in his command structure.
Of course he knows what they are up to. Its some of the most basic military theory.
If Kong placed secret agents in one of his most important subordinates organisation,
and Akainu is -ekstremely- important, then he would undermine said subordinate's efford
to lead said organisation. As well as his agents efforts to do whatever they are suposed to do.
You cant serve two masters. If Kong wants Coby to coordinate something with Drake around Wano,
And Akainu need him to protect visiting royals from Alabaster, then there are one of those two
missions thats not going to be carried out.
And as i was in on before, bias against Akainu. Yes he is extremely unlikeable. But that should
not cloud our perception of him. He is the fleet admiral. That means he has access to a lot
of the WG's most dirty laundry. He would not have been able to rise so highly in the Marine
if he wasnt able to keep his mouth shut. And as such, from Robin's backstory we know he is actually
one of the most extreme people when it comes to ensuring that hidden secrets stays burried.
He isnt the source that accidentially mention how there is something fishy about how Drake left the marine
to a reporter. He is the one likely to lavafist both blabbermouth and reporter.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Considering the commander in chief is technically above akainu in rank, (Though its admittedly murky at that level) if he says coby has to go somewhere, then he goes somewhere. And since kong IS in charge of the intelligence branches, akainu has no real need to be filled in on every detail of how they get their information. He gets the report that say, doflamingo was defeated. Does he need to know who reported it, who confirmed it, and what order of notification the info went through? Not really. He just needs to know that doflamingo was taken out and he has to adjust his distribution of forces to compensate. Do you think the president/prime minister of various countries knows the identity of every agent in their spy groups? Every informant? Theoretically they could probably find out but they have no need to know. At most akainu needs to know that they have eyes on blackbeard keeping them relatively up to date on what he is up to. He doesnt need to know what form the eyes take. Whether its cipher pol, aokiji, or mind controlled seagull cyborgs created by vegapunk, it doesnt matter to him, what matters is the info he gets is reliable.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
No. What needs to be considered is that its Akainu who are actually running the Marine.
That means that if Kong starts to give orders to Coby, then he is bypassing the chain of command.
That is JUST NOT DONE in a military organisation.
Akainu isnt the equivalent of a Prime Minister. He is the highest ranked admiral.
And so he absolutely does need to know if one of his direct officers are getting secret missions from somewhere else.
Yes he would absolutely not need to know the sources of information from CP.
Since thats another agency not under his authorithy. But thats not what we are talking about here.
We are talking about people in Aikanu's direct line of command. Of course he knows about their secret missions.
Just like the previous fleet admiral knew the infiltrator in Flamingo's crew.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
No. What needs to be considered is that its Akainu who are actually running the Marine.
That means that if Kong starts to give orders to Coby, then he is bypassing the chain of command.
That is JUST NOT DONE in a military organisation.
Akainu isnt the equivalent of a Prime Minister. He is the highest ranked admiral.
And so he absolutely does need to know if one of his direct officers are getting secret missions from somewhere else.
Yes he would absolutely not need to know the sources of information from CP.
Since thats another agency not under his authorithy. But thats not what we are talking about here.
We are talking about people in Aikanu's direct line of command. Of course he knows about their secret missions.
Just like the previous fleet admiral knew the infiltrator in Flamingo's crew.
Didnt sengoku work directly with that infiltrator? I admit im a bit fuzzy on the details there. And you are right, akainu isnt the prime minister, that makes it even less likely he would be aware of everyone working for mi6 or whatever. As for giving orders to coby, how often is that sort of thing even done? I mean, I cant imagine akainu exerts authority on a micromanaging scale often. If he wants something done, he tells the admirals, who tell the vice admirals, who tell the commodores, etc etc etc. He doesnt pick up a transponder snail, call up swabbie smith, and tell him to dig a ditch around alabasta. Akainu stays at the "pentagon" most of the time giving out orders to those below him who in turn make what he wants to happen happen. I doubt it would be very hard for coby to officially be a floater, taking on specific tasks given by someone with the authority to do so even if his fellow marines have no real idea who it is. Get a reputation as a trouble shooter and nobody is surprised when you show up in trouble areas and fix things, nor are they too curious about exactly where the buck stopped on who gave out the orders sending him there. And if it DID somehow reach akainus ears, I imagine the commander in chief could say, "Yeah, I sent him there, wanna make something of it? Then shut up and stop bringing attention to him." And from then on he would know coby is an agent as well as a marine but until then he would be in the dark because he wouldnt have any real need to know about it as the marines arent exactly a tiny group of soldiers and he has more important things to worry about than where one specific marine is going and what he is doing.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Traab
...mind controlled seagull cyborgs created by vegapunk...
Ho, there’s an idea. Where’d I put my tin foil hat?
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
SMH Ace wasn't even a tenth of a man his dad was.
It would be interesting if Aokiji is indeed Sword. Does that mean he had his right arm burnt off and his left leg blown off just to make his Marines exit believable? Now that's what I call deep cover.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
No. What needs to be considered is that its Akainu who are actually running the Marine.
No he isn't. Kong still has rank over him. Kong controls all the Marines as well as being able to issue orders to the Pols and the now defunct Warlords. Kong is second only to the Five Elders (and that means third to Im).
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Didnt sengoku work directly with that infiltrator? I admit im a bit fuzzy on the details there. And you are right, akainu isnt the prime minister, that makes it even less likely he would be aware of everyone working for mi6 or whatever. As for giving orders to coby, how often is that sort of thing even done? I mean, I cant imagine akainu exerts authority on a micromanaging scale often. If he wants something done, he tells the admirals, who tell the vice admirals, who tell the commodores, etc etc etc. He doesnt pick up a transponder snail, call up swabbie smith, and tell him to dig a ditch around alabasta. Akainu stays at the "pentagon" most of the time giving out orders to those below him who in turn make what he wants to happen happen. I doubt it would be very hard for coby to officially be a floater, taking on specific tasks given by someone with the authority to do so even if his fellow marines have no real idea who it is. Get a reputation as a trouble shooter and nobody is surprised when you show up in trouble areas and fix things, nor are they too curious about exactly where the buck stopped on who gave out the orders sending him there. And if it DID somehow reach akainus ears, I imagine the commander in chief could say, "Yeah, I sent him there, wanna make something of it? Then shut up and stop bringing attention to him." And from then on he would know coby is an agent as well as a marine but until then he would be in the dark because he wouldnt have any real need to know about it as the marines arent exactly a tiny group of soldiers and he has more important things to worry about than where one specific marine is going and what he is doing.
Except as i repeatedly says. This -isnt- someone working for MI6, or PET, or CIA. Its someone in the Navy, working for the supreme admiral.
And that means means Coby is in Akainu's direct line of command. In this case litterally, since there are are only 3 admirals in total.
That means Coby isnt a nobody, he is either directly under the command of Akainu, or one of his admirals. All of whom need to know about this.
And as such, the argument about being to important to deal with that sort of things applies even closer to Kong, who have even more things to deal with than just the Navy.
He also need to handle the other spy organisations, as well as politics and god knows what else. So as such, its actually the other way around.
Its Kong who are unlikely to know much if anything about Coby or Drake, except what Akainu reports.
Because, as such the only real reason for even thinking that Akainu doesnt know about this, is honestly just that he is extremely unpopular.
Be honest, had it been Sengeku in charge of things, or Garp, would it have registered for even a second that he might not be involved in something as
extremely important as his direct subordinatesjoining a elite Navy covert team? It would likely have been Sengeku
that promoted Coby up the stairs of the ladder, at least the last step to vice-admiral. As well as made him a member of Sword.
Anyway. organisational feuding aside. Then it also seems like we overlooked another interesting detail.
Namely that Blackbeard in typical fashion seems to have decided to go pick up the discarded Warlords.
Hawkeye is very likely to join Shanks. I think Buggy will end up with Blackbeard. Boa will of course want to join Luffy.
Dont know about Wevil.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
Except as i repeatedly says. This -isnt- someone working for MI6, or PET, or CIA. Its someone in the Navy, working for the supreme admiral.
And that means means Coby is in Akainu's direct line of command. In this case litterally, since there are are only 3 admirals in total.
That means Coby isnt a nobody, he is either directly under the command of Akainu, or one of his admirals. All of whom need to know about this.
And as such, the argument about being to important to deal with that sort of things applies even closer to Kong, who have even more things to deal with than just the Navy.
He also need to handle the other spy organisations, as well as politics and god knows what else. So as such, its actually the other way around.
Its Kong who are unlikely to know much if anything about Coby or Drake, except what Akainu reports.
Because, as such the only real reason for even thinking that Akainu doesnt know about this, is honestly just that he is extremely unpopular.
Be honest, had it been Sengeku in charge of things, or Garp, would it have registered for even a second that he might not be involved in something as
extremely important as his direct subordinatesjoining a elite Navy covert team? It would likely have been Sengeku
that promoted Coby up the stairs of the ladder, at least the last step to vice-admiral. As well as made him a member of Sword.
Anyway. organisational feuding aside. Then it also seems like we overlooked another interesting detail.
Namely that Blackbeard in typical fashion seems to have decided to go pick up the discarded Warlords.
Hawkeye is very likely to join Shanks. I think Buggy will end up with Blackbeard. Boa will of course want to join Luffy.
Dont know about Wevil.
If it was sengoku? I could see him not really needing to know, but he has the experience and knowledge of how things work in the world government to likely figure it out. Garp is the kind of guy who I honestly cant say. He might know because thats his actual freaking apprentice there so he would have more reason than either sengoku or akainu to care about what he is up to. The bottom line is, no, you are wrong, im not saying that "because I dont like akainu" Im saying that because this is a government that works under multiple layers of shadow and misdirection, and there are several in universe reasons why kong or the gorusei would want him left out of the loop on something like this, though by this I primarily mean aokiji and his likely status as an agent for the wg.
As for sengoku promoting koby, I kinda doubt it. Didnt he step down shortly after marineford? Koby wasnt even a captain at that point, he was basically a grunt. Incidentally, he is a rear admiral, lower rank than vice admiral, which places him three steps down the ladder in the chain of command under akainu. Meaning he is under the command of a vice admiral, who is under the command of an admiral, who is under the command of akainu. Its not like koby gets akainu his coffee in the morning, he likely is rarely even on the same OCEAN as the fleet admiral, and so akainu would only care about him insofar as his name is connected to garps. And as a final point, while doing a search for something else, I came across the one piece marine org charts. Kong directly outranks akainu. He is commander in chief, akainu is basically secretary of defense. That means kong absolutely is in the chain of command, and if he says something is going to be done with a soldier, he is the one who has final say (unless the illuminati gorusei say otherwise) It also makes sense from the intelligence division command he has. When your commanding officer says to drop it when one of your soldiers goes missing, you drop it. Maybe he works for naval intelligence now, maybe he ticked off the wrong guy and paid for it with his life, doesnt matter, your boss is the one who took care of it and its not your problem anymore. As commander in chief he doesnt have to justify his decisions to the fleet admiral if he doesnt feel the need (though as a matter of practice he probably does it anyways as there is no reason to stomp on toes unless necessary) but that gives him the freedom to move his agents as he wants in secret.
But man those org charts are complicated. Turns out, not all vice admirals/captains/whatevers are created equal. Where you are stationed also seems to effect actual command levels. Like, a vice admiral stationed at marine headquarters is considered to have more authority than one stationed in, i dunno, the east blue. So that complicates matters even more when trying to determine how far up the ranks a specific soldier might be, as you cant just say, "Oh, he is a rear admiral, therefore he is x." And geez this post rambled on a lot. Lets sum up. My personal opinion about akainu is irrelevant. There are multiple in universe reasons why he wouldnt know who is in sword or if aokiji is still working for the wg as a spy, the marine chain of command is a massive pita once you move past the broad outline of ranks and into the nitty gritty.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ben-zayb
Speaking of the devil, there is an implication that Blackbeard knew of Xebec's existence because of his ship's name, Saber of Xebec.
[/SPOILER]
I mean look at what we see of Xebec and compare to Teach. They're family. That's not even like, a "maybe" to me. They're family.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
I mean look at what we see of Xebec and compare to Teach. They're family. That's not even like, a "maybe" to me. They're family.
I hope not. In the way that Luffy inherited the Will of Gol D. Roger without being relatives, it would be a nice parallel if Blackbeard also inherited the Will of Rocks D. Xebec the same way
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
At the pace Oda is going, he should've just did what i said chapters ago, and outright skip the entire arc.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
If it was sengoku? I could see him not really needing to know, but he has the experience and knowledge of how things work in the world government to likely figure it out. Garp is the kind of guy who I honestly cant say. He might know because thats his actual freaking apprentice there so he would have more reason than either sengoku or akainu to care about what he is up to. The bottom line is, no, you are wrong, im not saying that "because I dont like akainu" Im saying that because this is a government that works under multiple layers of shadow and misdirection, and there are several in universe reasons why kong or the gorusei would want him left out of the loop on something like this, though by this I primarily mean aokiji and his likely status as an agent for the wg.
But im not saying your saying it because you dislike Aikanu. Im saying you dislike Aikanu, and then unconciously uses it as excuse to rationalise against him.
I mean, i dont think there has been a single actual reason for why it would be kept a secret from Aikanu, thats not either personal in some way. Or else apply even more to Kong.
Because, as such, that he is Aikanu's superior doesnt say anything. The Celestrial Dragons are also technically that, but noone argues they do anything of use.
And when we look at the War with Whitebeard, then it does seem like this sort of underhand tactics are very much so the responsibility of the Fleet Admiral.
As well as just about everything else involving the Marine Navy. The most important engagement in Marine history. And while the Fleet Admiral takes on a massive command role there.
Then we dont see the shadow of Kong. Thats why im arguing that suddenly trying to shuffle as much authority and importance as possible,
over towards a person we have seen for what 3 panels? are mostly affected by bias against the current Fleet Admiral.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
But im not saying your saying it because you dislike Aikanu. Im saying you dislike Aikanu, and then unconciously uses it as excuse to rationalise against him.
I mean, i dont think there has been a single actual reason for why it would be kept a secret from Aikanu, thats not either personal in some way. Or else apply even more to Kong.
Because, as such, that he is Aikanu's superior doesnt say anything. The Celestrial Dragons are also technically that, but noone argues they do anything of use.
And when we look at the War with Whitebeard, then it does seem like this sort of underhand tactics are very much so the responsibility of the Fleet Admiral.
As well as just about everything else involving the Marine Navy. The most important engagement in Marine history. And while the Fleet Admiral takes on a massive command role there.
Then we dont see the shadow of Kong. Thats why im arguing that suddenly trying to shuffle as much authority and importance as possible,
over towards a person we have seen for what 3 panels? are mostly affected by bias against the current Fleet Admiral.
Kong would know because his specific job is being in charge of their secret police and intelligence divisions. The fleet admiral on the other hand is in charge of sending the military where it needs to go and making sure no enemy attacks succeed. He doesnt need to know who the secret agents are. He needs to know they are out there doing their job and passing on the information he needs to do his job. As for marineford, exactly what part of that was secret? They openly dared whitebeard to come and organized an entire army to stand right there, clearly visible, to stop him. The closest thing to secret was tricking squardo into betraying whitebeard and the pacifistas making their debut. And the pacifistas were just good basic military tactics. You never let your enemy know EVERYTHING you have to bring to the table. This was a blatant military operation, thats why the fleet admiral was there and in charge.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Traab
Kong would know because his specific job is being in charge of their secret police and intelligence divisions. The fleet admiral on the other hand is in charge of sending the military where it needs to go and making sure no enemy attacks succeed. He doesnt need to know who the secret agents are. He needs to know they are out there doing their job and passing on the information he needs to do his job. As for marineford, exactly what part of that was secret? They openly dared whitebeard to come and organized an entire army to stand right there, clearly visible, to stop him. The closest thing to secret was tricking squardo into betraying whitebeard and the pacifistas making their debut. And the pacifistas were just good basic military tactics. You never let your enemy know EVERYTHING you have to bring to the table. This was a blatant military operation, thats why the fleet admiral was there and in charge.
I believe he's refering to Sengoku's plan to have Akainu try and turn Squardo against Whitebeard.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Yeah. I was refering to that. Something that was a bit above just directing troops around.
And i continue to be confused over why there are any debate about this.
We have past examples of the Fleet Admiral engaging in very underhand tactics.
And we have a past example of the Fleet Admiral being in charge of covert agents in Flamingo's crew.
It seems a little strange to assume that "nope! that was a one-time only occurence" :smallconfused:
As compared to assuming that the Marine routinely try and plant agents in all prominent pirate crews.
Especially now we know that there likely is a network of "defected" Marine Officers.
At least i certainly know what option i would chose if i were Fleet Admiral.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
New chapter!
Spoiler
Show
Act 3 begins! And uh... huh. That's not good.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Hmm... Orochi might be a cowardly bufoon, but he's far from harmless. In a way he's Spandam 2.0, but he'd rip Spandam to shreds, whether in scheming or in fighting.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Orochi has the power of a nation behind him who are loyal to their Shogun. There's...a lot of commentary there from Oda that we can't get into on these boards but Wano is, if nothing else, a pretty political pastiche of a few very pointed periods of Japanese history. Again, we can't on that on these boards, but it's there. Spandam would be just as dangerous if he had both of those things. The issue with Spandam was he neither had the power he thought he had, which was his whole point, nor the loyalty of his people. Rob was down and out disgusted by him and the other CP9 members didn't seem much better. They listened to him because he was their direct supervisor but it was pretty clear they had no intention of listening to him outside the confines of their job.
The question still remains, who was the one feeding them all the information? Hiyori remains one of my top suspects. There's just too many red herrings from Oda to make any definitive claim. That's one way to keep a mystery going, but I don't feel we've been given enough clues to make the decision on our own.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
The Strawhats are obviously the traitors, and had the Akazaya Ku-nin been paying attention they would have realized that by now. Just look at how Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, and the rest of the gang constantly imperil the plan and its entire secrecy with their recklessness.
I'd probably have a better guess if I try pieceing down the little clues Oda has been sprinkling around for the past chapters. The type of intel that Orochi has doesn't really have complete information of the entire Kozuki alliance operations, and we were shown plenty of allied characters not knowing all the details of the plans.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
The big clue is that Kaido and Orochi don't seem to have the same information. So whoever is leaking to who isn't doing it to the one, they're intentionally spreading discord and misinformation between the two at the expense of the revolution or there's more than one mole. Or I guess Orochi isn't sharing everything he's learning with Kaido. Which is just as likely as the other two.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Oh right yes nwe chapter!
Orochi kinda... kicked everyone's asses without directly fighting them, and that's pretty cool. And now it's flashback time, woo.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Oh, I just assumed Law was the leak after he traded himself for his crew’s release. We saw him escape after cutting Hawkins to pieces and while he was escaping, he asked a shadowy figure watching him if him escaping was part of the figure’s plan. I think the figure was Drake and after finding out about Kaido and Big Mom’s alliance he decided he needed to do something. So he cut a deal with Law. Law would leak genuine info and Drake would help him escape and/or do something else to undercut Orochi’s plan and trick Orochi into thinking he’d won. I severely doubt he told Law about Sword though.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Urgg.. im starting to get -sick- of Oden.
ye gods he is almost beginning to sound like a gary stu parody.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Oh okay Oden's a ****ing buffoon. Alright. I can tell he has good intentions at heart, but it's like... my dude. Relax.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
You guys were able to read it... my eyes just glossed over the words. :smallsigh:
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
Ye gods he is almost beginning to sound like a gary stu parody.
I wouldn't say he's a Gary Stu, or at least not yet in this part of the flashback, but Oden is so far pretty unlikeable to me.
Of course we knew later on how much he is respected and loved, so I hope he actually gets to earn those.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ben-zayb
I wouldn't say he's a Gary Stu, or at least not yet in this part of the flashback, but Oden is so far pretty unlikeable to me.
Of course we knew later on how much he is respected and loved, so I hope he actually gets to earn those.
This all seems to flow from what we know of him. He was a wild jerk for a long time. Then he shaped up. Think it's a little early in the flashback to start worrying honestly.
-
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Quote:
I wouldn't say he's a Gary Stu, or at least not yet in this part of the flashback, but Oden is so far pretty unlikeable to me.
Well.. he reads line someones fanfic char, so i think the term is kinda fitting?