Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVI: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!"

[bluntpencil]

So this is an idea i had, for an attempt at an all-flyer-mounted list. Call it Elysians, if you must. 2000 points, i darent consider how much in currency

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Command squad- 130
2x Meltas
Astropath
Officer of the fleet

Primaris Psyker- 70

Troops
Veteran squad -100
3x Meltaguns

Veteran squad -100
3x Meltaguns

Veteran squad -100
3x Meltaguns

Veteran squad -100
3x Meltaguns

Veteran squad -100
3x Meltaguns

Infantry Platoon -130
Command squad, heavy bolter, Heavy flamer
2x Infantry squads, heavy bolter, flamer

Fast Attack

3x Vendetta- 390

3x Vendetta- 390

3x Vendetta- 390

So. Awesome.

Problem though.

After turn one, won't you lose by tabling? No models on the board after turn one, due to everything being in reserve?

[houlio]

You have to leave at least half your stuff on the table, unless your daemons.

[LeSwordfish]

Flyers always need to come on from reserve, which would likely mean my flyers would come on from reserve, and everything else would need to start on the board.

I dont know of any unit tough enough to want to wager the game on its survival alone, though. Maybe expand it to 3000 points and bring some allied terminators or something.

[Squark]

I'm pretty sure only Necrons can do an all flier list, and only in a very specific way (and even, then, they auto-lose turn 1 unless your opponent waives that rule); Specifically, it's reasonable to assume that all your troop choices can start in their dedicated transport (and thus be in reserve. This is going by the NOVA ruling, so it's not official, of course), and then you take only a single HQ, which is probably able to start in reserves as half (rounded up) of your army.

[thereaper]

Is it possible to give special weapons to the leader of a squad (for example, giving a lascannon to a sergeant)? If so, is it wise to do so (leaders of a squad tend to be characters, which means they get LOS, which could be used to protect your big guns)?

[Renegade Paladin]

Is it possible to give special weapons to the leader of a squad (for example, giving a lascannon to a sergeant)? If so, is it wise to do so (leaders of a squad tend to be characters, which means they get LOS, which could be used to protect your big guns)?

If you mean in Guard, the answer is no, at least not in the sense you're thinking. Sergeants tend to get power weapons and special pistols for their upgrades, rather than lascannons. The same is true in Space Marines, I'm fairly certain.

[LeSwordfish]

Mostly, you can't. Most codices restrict you to special weapons only to ordinary soldiers- the Imperial Guard codex says "one guardsman may replace his lasgun..." and that's a guardsman, specifically, as opposed to a sargeant.

[thereaper]

So then if it says "one model", like in the GK codex, it would be possible?

(Not that I would want to do that, mind you, since the justicars are the guys who have to take the perils and I would want them to have force weapons so they could exploit that extra attack; I'm just curious)

[Borgh]

Just had my first game of 6th. My dark eldar vs a lot of flying deamon princes.
got mildly stomped. few things I learned:
-Grotesques rule.
-the deployment restriction for skimmers in not that bad, especially not if you (within reason) utilize the length of a raider.
-flying monsterous creatures are really, really hard to take down and those Vector Strikes hurt a lot on my fragile vehicles.

[Cheesegear]

RE; Chaos Daemons update;

Spoiler

Show

Well, first off, I love the new Slaanesh models. Unfortunately, it's still exactly what Chaos Daemons doesn't need; More close combat stuffs.

Flamers of Tzeentch have been given an extra wound, but lose their 4++, and are now just Daemons with 5++, same with Screamers of Slaanesh. Pink Horrors, not being updated, keep their old 4++. While the survivability of the Flamers stays the same (50% less invulnerable but more wounds with Eternal Warrior), it has de-powered Fateweaver a little, and the points cost of Flamers has also been reduced, so that's nice.
...Fiends of Slaanesh are still the best Elite choice.

Screamers are now a legit choice. Gaining an extra wound, Initiative 4 and sporting 3 attacks. They also demolish Terminators. As mentioned, they walk around with 3 attacks, but, they're weapons are S5, AP2, Armourbane. So, while they're not as good at killing vehicles as they used to be (although still slightly good), they shred Infantry pretty well.

Chariots of Slaanesh are 'okay'. Fleshshredder is a very nice rule that is dependent on how many Hull Points you have (Chariots have 2, Exalteds have 4), but, being only AV11, and not being able to do anything after Deep Strikes except get shot at, I don't really see anybody taking them over Flying Monstrous Creatures (Daemon Princes) or AV13 Walkers (Soul Grinders). I suppose their main benefit is that they come in squadrons.

...9 Exalted Chariots of Slaanesh? Hmm...Probably not. They're still AV11 and get knocked over by S7 attacks (i.e; A lot of things).

ION;
Nob Bikers are really, really good. I'm not sure about the rest of the Orks though. It might be worth grabbing a set of NBs for Allies - they're really good.

[Priest33]

So. Awesome.

Problem though.

After turn one, won't you lose by tabling? No models on the board after turn one, due to everything being in reserve?

Yes if you don't deploy anything in your turn, but remember that a game turn is both your opponents and your turn combined. Just cause your opponent goes first doesn't mean that you auto lose the game.

[Cheesegear]

Yes if you don't deploy anything in your turn, but remember that a game turn is both your opponents and your turn combined. Just cause your opponent goes first doesn't mean that you auto lose the game.

It kind of does.
Turn 1, your opponent goes first and does whatever.
Your Turn 1, Reserves don't come on in Turn 1.

You lose.

[Psychotic]

It kind of does.
Turn 1, your opponent goes first and does whatever.
Your Turn 1, Reserves don't come on in Turn 1.

You lose.

Which is why the only army where all reserves is legal is Chaos daemons, because they get their first wave on turn 1.

[bluntpencil]

Which is why the only army where all reserves is legal is Chaos daemons, because they get their first wave on turn 1.

There's also Drop Pods and Deathwing. ;)

[Psychotic]

There's also Drop Pods and Deathwing. ;)

I was under the interpretation that since units inside of Drop Pods and DWT's have the option to start on the board, the "Half of your forces" must be deployed still applies to them.

[Tarinaky]

So. Awesome.

Problem though.

After turn one, won't you lose by tabling? No models on the board after turn one, due to everything being in reserve?

I've not looked at the 6e rules yet but I don't recall there being a rule in 5e that says you lose if you have nothing on the board. Am I mistaken/did they change this?

Obviously if you have nothing on the board you then couldn't contest objectives etc... but that didn't matter until the game ended.

[LeSwordfish]

Is there any model in the game that can bring reserves on in turn one?

[bluntpencil]

I've not looked at the 6e rules yet but I don't recall there being a rule in 5e that says you lose if you have nothing on the board. Am I mistaken/did they change this?

Obviously if you have nothing on the board you then couldn't contest objectives etc... but that didn't matter until the game ended.

Yeah, it's defo a rule, and was a rule in 5e too.

If you have no models on the board, at the end of any game turn, you lose.

[Tome]

Is there any model in the game that can bring reserves on in turn one?

There's no model that lets your standard reserves arrive on turn 1 to my knowledge, though there are a few models that themselves arrive then.

Mordrak and his Ghost Knights, Deathwing Terminators, Drop Pods, Daemons etc.

[bluntpencil]

I was under the interpretation that since units inside of Drop Pods and DWT's have the option to start on the board, the "Half of your forces" must be deployed still applies to them.

Half of your forces must be deployed? Really?

I'm pretty sure they can all start in reserve, and teleport/drop in on Turn One.

You're better having men on the ground to provide locator beacons and teleport homers, though...

[Tome]

Half of your forces must be deployed? Really?

I'm pretty sure they can all start in reserve, and teleport/drop in on Turn One.

You're better having men on the ground to provide locator beacons and teleport homers, though...

Nope. It's an explicit rule in 6th that you can only put up to half your army into reserves, not counting models that must start start reserves like Flyers.

[bluntpencil]

Nope. It's an explicit rule in 6th that you can only put up to half your army into reserves, not counting models that must start start reserves like Flyers.

If a unit is inside a Drop Pod, doesn't it count as having to start in Reserve?

[Tome]

If a unit is inside a Drop Pod, doesn't it count as having to start in Reserve?

That's the question that needs FAQing.

On the one hand, their transport has to start in reserve, so if they're in it, so do they.

On the other, the unit itself has a choice whether to start in it's transport and deploy normally, meaning that it has the option not to start in reserves.

You can argue both ways.

[bluntpencil]

That's the question that needs FAQing.

On the one hand, their transport has to start in reserve, so if they're in it, so do they.

On the other, the unit itself has a choice whether to start in it's transport and deploy normally, meaning that it has the option not to start in reserves.

You can argue both ways.

I'd argue the rule was a bit stupid, and go with everyone in the pods, but rules as intended is not the name of the game, after all.

[Zorg]

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may [be placed in reserves]. A unit and its dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes."

Reads to me like a dedicated transport Drop Pod and its assigned squad would count as one unit, and are thus both ignored for the 50% of units on the board rule.

[bluntpencil]

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may [be placed in reserves]. A unit and its dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes."

Reads to me like a dedicated transport Drop Pod and its assigned squad would count as one unit, and are thus both ignored for the 50% of units on the board rule.

I'd hope so, but I think it's so that you don't say 'this unit of 5 marines and a Rhino is 2 units, so I can put 2 units of Terminators in reserve'.

[LeSwordfish]

So this list won't work, because the vendettas aren't dedicated transports, and thus half the units must be placed on the board at the start?

Right. I have five units of veterans to come on from reserve, and four units that can start on the board. So this list COULD work, but I have to rely on a single infantry platoon surviving 2000 points worth of first-turn firepower in order for it to work as expected.

Challenge Accepted.

[Zorg]

@ LeSwordfish - exactly. There are a couple of Elysian lists (one in IA8, another in 4 I think) that give you dedicated Valks.

And speaking of Forge World, it's Games Day and...

I just got out of the seminar. The big news is Forgeworld will be releasing a series of books covering the Horus Heresy. They hinted that primarch models and rules would be included.

The first book to be released Fall of 2012

-


Alan did indicate the the Horus Heresy books will not be part of the Imperial Armour line. While he wouldn't elaborate it could mean the rules will not be compatible with standard 40K games

Marines... fighting other Marines.


Yay.

[Eldan]

Yawn. Wake me at some point in 2015 when we get something interesting for the Xenos again, yeah?

[Forrestfire]

I have a rules question about conversions and counts-as models. I'm building a deathwing army, and I want my converted Belial (since it's not actual Dark Angels) to have dual lightning claws. Can I model it as him dual-wielding swords and say that it's lightning claws? Or do I have to actually have the claws on the model instead?

(Bear in mind, dual power swords is illegal on Belial. His options are Master-crafted power sword/storm bolter, 2 lightning claws, or thunder hammer/storm shield).