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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    I was a bit puzzled why the guy that was being asked for money near the beginning appeared to be afraid of the two guys--I know it was plot-necessary in order for Belkar to make the mistake he did, but why did he act that way?

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    I assumed he did not want to pay in the first place and was more "annoyed" than actually "afraid".

    If you want "afraid" in, just assume he is somewhat broke and does not want to pay the little gold he has, but he is afraid people in the town find out about his financial situation. That'd explain anything we saw?
    Last edited by Winter; 2013-02-24 at 08:49 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    I loved this.

    But my loudest out-loud laugh didn't come until the third reading.

    That was when I first noticed the sign being held up in the window during the beat after the venture capitalist/Kickstarter joke.

    The first couple times, I thought it was just a moment of self-realization that they'd gone off into a surreal topic and it was time to reign themselves in. Sort of a, "WTF were we just saying?" I found it hilarious with just that. But when I noticed the sign in the window, around which that whole cell was built, I just about fell off the couch.

    You're welcome, Rich. You're welcome.

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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    The twisted denouement of "Uncivil Servant" calls to mind an actual IRL event. In 1856, tribes from Eastern Washington raided Seattle; Territorial Governor Isaac Stevens put a bounty on their heads: $20 for ordinary Indians and $80 for a "chief". Patkanim, chief of the Snohomish and allied tribes, obligingly delivered a sack of heads to the governor's office in Olympia, demanded payment, and was ready to provide more. The Territorial Auditor, suspecting that he was merely culling his slaves and in the process promoting a suspicious number of them to "chief", put a stop to the bounty system (but I don't know whether the initial bounty was in fact paid).
    Belkar is indeed an evil creature, but not unrealistic.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by oball View Post
    Should probably warn people that Oglaf in general and that strip in particular are NSFW.
    After a half & half was defined, I may have forgotten about that. Sorry!

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I was a bit puzzled why the guy that was being asked for money near the beginning appeared to be afraid of the two guys--I know it was plot-necessary in order for Belkar to make the mistake he did, but why did he act that way?
    He was being hard-sell harassed at like 6:00 am in the morning, in a way that he couldn't get out of. My thinking was that he was the sort of guy who has been studiously avoiding being near the people canvassing for donations for the last few weeks, and now he's been cornered. He's doesn't have the spine to just say, "I don't want to donate to your charity thing," though, so he's flustered and nervous. "Nervous" and "afraid" look pretty much the same (which was the point).

    EDIT: Oh, and "Brint" and "Shart" don't refer to anything. I just made up short names that sounded sort of brutish and harsh to further hide the twist. If "shart" has a slang meaning, I didn't know about it.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Cerlis's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I knew there was something off about the shakedown, I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. When the mayor reacted with disgust, I simply thought they were the overseers of the whole racket, and that's where the bounty money came from. Great twist, and I love how their dialogue reads through completely differently on a second read-through.
    well, i thought it was because wholetale slaughter and beheading of sentient humanoid beings is alot different than killing bugs.

    but that wasnt it.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by rewinn View Post
    The twisted denouement of "Uncivil Servant" calls to mind an actual IRL event. In 1856, tribes from Eastern Washington raided Seattle; Territorial Governor Isaac Stevens put a bounty on their heads: $20 for ordinary Indians and $80 for a "chief". Patkanim, chief of the Snohomish and allied tribes, obligingly delivered a sack of heads to the governor's office in Olympia, demanded payment, and was ready to provide more. The Territorial Auditor, suspecting that he was merely culling his slaves and in the process promoting a suspicious number of them to "chief", put a stop to the bounty system (but I don't know whether the initial bounty was in fact paid).
    Belkar is indeed an evil creature, but not unrealistic.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    He was being hard-sell harassed at like 6:00 am in the morning, in a way that he couldn't get out of. My thinking was that he was the sort of guy who has been studiously avoiding being near the people canvassing for donations for the last few weeks, and now he's been cornered. He's doesn't have the spine to just say, "I don't want to donate to your charity thing," though, so he's flustered and nervous. "Nervous" and "afraid" look pretty much the same (which was the point).

    EDIT: Oh, and "Brint" and "Shart" don't refer to anything. I just made up short names that sounded sort of brutish and harsh to further hide the twist. If "shart" has a slang meaning, I didn't know about it.
    I woke up to some (extremely fast talking) guy trying to sell/peddle some form of donation object. I actually think he said something about it coming in the mail so it was probably a scam. I've also been harassed in the middle of the night in walmart and target parking lots by people trying to peddle perfume.

    It made me feel very uncomfortable, freaked out and nervous. Especially since the first thing you wonder when a complete stranger comes right at you in the middle of a parking lot is that they are going to rob you.

    So i really felt for the poor guy.
    Part of the "Raise Nale and Let Him Serve Life in Prison" fan-club

    "The only reason why people didn't like Durkon before was because he is the only member of the group that doesn't commit evil, like hurting others, or breaking the rules for giggles. I.E.' He's not cool'"

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Kudos, Rich! I really enjoyed "Uncivil Servant", and having finally gotten to read it, it makes the $12.00 I paid for a pair of magnets seem almost worthwhile! (Just kidding, I really liked the Roy magnets, which have been guarding my refrigerator for months!)

    A few comments: Only someone as stupid and bloodthirsty as Belkar could have both leapt to the conclusions he reached and taken the subsequent actions he took. I could see Elan, or even Roy, mistaking Brint and Shart for crooks, but they'd probably report them to the chief of police, which would have ended the mix-up fast. (Also, Roy never slays first and asks questions later, that's Belkar.) So chalk this case of mistaken identity to a combination of comical misunderstanding, bloodthirstiness and gross stupidity.

    The comic did do a nice job of giving Belkar a back story without humanizing him. Belkar was a slave. That's how he knew Buggy Lou and Buggy's pals. However being a slave did not in any way shape or form humanize him, because Belkar was already a psychotic murderer beforehand. I see what you did there Rich: You got to have your cake and eat it too. Very clever!

    Glad to hear your hand has been healing! Now get to work on the O-Chul and "Dim Sun" pieces! :)

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Very nice tale. Belkar is being awesome
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Hm, I actually saw the ending coming (well, that they weren't actually criminals, not that it was a volleyball game), but I still really enjoyed it. I wonder what he ended up spending his money on.

    Then again, based on his conversation with the tailor, I probably don't want to know.
    Last edited by Blisstake; 2013-02-26 at 06:15 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Blisstake View Post
    Hm, I actually saw the ending coming (well, that they weren't actually criminals, not that it was a volleyball game), but I still really enjoyed it. I wonder what he ended up spending his money on.
    At a wild guess, either a sex taint, a cart of gophers, or some d*mn mansion whores.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Took three tries to finish downloading the story, not because of any fault of the link ut because the crappy internet here tends to blink every 10 minutes, aaarrggh!
    The story was well worth the stress though, Well Done Giant, well done!
    The half and half reference almost had me spit a soda out on my keyboard though since I did understand it even though I don't know where I have heard it before. Probably from some HBO series. Looking forward to reading the O-Chul and Therkla stories. Thank you Giant, and glad that your hand is doing better.
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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Skavensrule View Post
    Took three tries to finish downloading the story, not because of any fault of the link ut because the crappy internet here tends to blink every 10 minutes, aaarrggh!
    The story was well worth the stress though, Well Done Giant, well done!
    The half and half reference almost had me spit a soda out on my keyboard though since I did understand it even though I don't know where I have heard it before. Probably from some HBO series. Looking forward to reading the O-Chul and Therkla stories. Thank you Giant, and glad that your hand is doing better.
    For O-Chul, I hope we know what happened to Hinjo's Parents or his probable life as a retainer for some nobles (his uniform is different from other azurite soldier).
    For Therkla, say hello to racist town of Azure City (Well, orcs were hated in typical D&D settings or at least least accepted race other than elves).
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    War & XPs (back of the book- Tourist Guide) does say that only human-blooded (though this includes half-humans) can be granted citizenship in Azure City.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-02-27 at 01:43 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Was it just me or the mayor look like the dude from Monopoly?
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    SamuraiGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    I sadly missed the Kickstarter...

    Is it possible somebody can still donate money to be able to see these comics ;~;

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Nope. But they'll be published in books eventually.
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Belkar key traits have already been established as being too quick to kill people and also that he is incapable of understanding the difference between "good" and "bad" killing (which in my mind means he's more psychotic neutral then evil). A theme established in previous comics is that once Belkar is rewarded for killing an evil thing, he must immediately screw up the goodwill by killing something good.

    It was obvious that Belkar had to misread the shakedown and kill good people, what was not clear was how.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Mage View Post
    Belkar key traits have already been established as being too quick to kill people and also that he is incapable of understanding the difference between "good" and "bad" killing (which in my mind means he's more psychotic neutral then evil).
    "psychotic neutral" sounds like just another variant of Evil.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Mage View Post
    Belkar key traits have already been established as being too quick to kill people and also that he is incapable of understanding the difference between "good" and "bad" killing (which in my mind means he's more psychotic neutral then evil). A theme established in previous comics is that once Belkar is rewarded for killing an evil thing, he must immediately screw up the goodwill by killing something good.

    It was obvious that Belkar had to misread the shakedown and kill good people, what was not clear was how.
    In what possible sense of the word is killing innocents not evil?

    He's evil. He's stated he's evil, the Giant has stated he's evil, his character sheet says evil, and he's repeatedly been evil for the sake of evil. He's dabbled in slavery, tried to murder teammates, murdered a random passerby for a chocolate bar, murdered the Oracle before they could ask their questions, and tortures kobolds well beyond what can be considered payback. Oh, and in this story, he proceeded to shake down the town for protection money upon realizing he killed their guards.

    He's evil, not neutral. Let me repeat, EVIL. with a capital E. This isn't poor misunderstood Belkar. This is a psychotic, evil little halfling who likes to kill things for fun.
    Last edited by NerdyKris; 2013-02-28 at 06:48 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    In what possible sense of the word is killing innocents not evil?

    He's evil. He's stated he's evil, the Giant has stated he's evil, his character sheet says evil, and he's repeatedly been evil for the sake of evil. He's dabbled in slavery, tried to murder teammates, murdered a random passerby for a chocolate bar, murdered the Oracle before they could ask their questions, and tortures kobolds well beyond what can be considered payback. Oh, and in this story, he proceeded to shake down the town for protection money upon realizing he killed their guards.

    He's evil, not neutral. Let me repeat, EVIL. with a capital E. This isn't poor misunderstood Belkar. This is a psychotic, evil little halfling who likes to kill things for fun.
    Agreed totally, but I have to point out, he only found the chocolate bar after looting the body of the random passerby he stabbed.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    In what possible sense of the word is killing innocents not evil?

    He's evil. He's stated he's evil, the Giant has stated he's evil, his character sheet says evil, and he's repeatedly been evil for the sake of evil. He's dabbled in slavery, tried to murder teammates, murdered a random passerby for a chocolate bar, murdered the Oracle before they could ask their questions, and tortures kobolds well beyond what can be considered payback. Oh, and in this story, he proceeded to shake down the town for protection money upon realizing he killed their guards.

    He's evil, not neutral. Let me repeat, EVIL. with a capital E. This isn't poor misunderstood Belkar. This is a psychotic, evil little halfling who likes to kill things for fun.

    Not to pick nits, but Belkar is not EVIL with a capital E. He's EVIL with a capital EVIL.

    Otherwise you're quite right, carry on, and so forth.
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    No author should have to take the time to say, "This little girl ISN'T evil, folks!" in order for the reader to understand that. It should be assumed that no first graders are irredeemably Evil unless the text tells you they are.

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    In that little aside about insane neutrality I did mention that this seemed like neutrality to me, not the Giant, or in the OOTS world.

    See Belkar was established as someone who can't tell the difference between right and wrong meets the legal definition of criminally insane. Belkar, if he really is someone who is incapable of moral reasoning fits this. Also, at least one description of Neutrality in an official D&D book included in it all "amoral" creatures, defined as those that did not reason morally.

    Of course, in addition, Belkar does ENJOY killing, and is utterly selfish. But then that describes a lot of cats http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

    I can't seem to find the exact comic. He is somewhere chided for killing a good guy or rewarded for killing a bad guy and expresses confusion as to the difference. I don't mean this comic http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html#539

    Here its debatable whether he genuinely doesn't see what the problem is.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by SPoD View Post
    I can't think of anything more thrilling to read than the blow-by-blow specifics of a battle between an ancient black dragon and an apprentice baker.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Great fun! Looking forward to the others!

    I believed the shakedown opening and I think starting the story with other dangerous events helped frame that belief nicely. I too thought I figured out the twist, thought I figured it out again and was still delightfully surprised at the end!

    Some thoughts on the comic.

    I never thought he burned down the village instead of simple extortion. Among the other reasons (like Rich's post!), his loot would have all been different as he would have to have gathered it himself post-killing. It would be more random; not just a big chest stuffed full of clean, choice loot.

    The nervous guy, who did not want to donate for unknown reasons, was being asked to donate by two high-status individuals. In public. That seems like it would cause stress in almost any society.

    Anarion's post noting strip 58 was awesome.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    ...The comic did do a nice job of giving Belkar a back story without humanizing him. Belkar was a slave. That's how he knew Buggy Lou and Buggy's pals...
    I don't think this story really sets that up. Comic 685 establishes that Belkar was friends with one of the suppliers Buggy Lou bought slaves from. It wouldn't make sense for Belkar to be friends with people who were buying and selling him. Plus, in the story Belkar implies that he killed the slavers. The story does establish that Belkar wouldn't have had any qualms about associating with slavers even after being a slave himself, but I don't see Belkar's slavery as having anything to do with Buggy Lou.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    I found it more sad than funny for the greater part, but still nice. Couldn't expect anything else from a belkar without roy to control him.

    By the way, at page 4 of the pdf file, there are a couple of boots of eldricht supremacy with something written on them. It really looks like a code, and I expect it to contain some random joke like the one when V accepted the soul splice. I don't want to take the effort of translating it, but I'd really appreciate if someone with more passion for eciphering codes did.
    On it, they do seem to be genuine characters, not just your average gobbledegook, and they differ from boot to boot

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Conte_Vincero View Post
    On it, they do seem to be genuine characters, not just your average gobbledegook, and they differ from boot to boot
    It's a special font.

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