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2013-06-18, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Factotum (3.5e Base Class)
Factotum
"Oh, I can do that. I can definitely do that." - Justin Case, a factotum
Some characters prefer the fierce clamor of battle. Others prefer silently moving through a dungeon, clearing the way for their companions as they search for traps. Still others prefer the pursuit of arcane knowledge, and even others might prefer to be champions of their deity’s ideals. Every once in a long while though, there comes a character that prefers to try to follow many paths, and succeeds in doing so. Enter the factotum, the true jack of all trades. Through hours of intense study and practice, a factotum learns to emulate others and adapt on the fly. One day he may be fighting sword and shield to defend his brothers in arms, and the next he might be visiting a god’s temple in search of divine favor. But above all, factotums prefer versatility. They hate being tied to one option or another permanently. They might wander down one path and explore it, but they eventually move on to another interest. Factotums usually try to remain neutral, positing that one way is no better than another, and both are simply two ways of looking at the same issue. They usually also are fiercely supportive of their friends and associates, always looking to lessen any weaknesses that a group may have collectively by adopting abilities to counteract what may be missing.
Adventures: Factotums enjoy experiencing a wide variety of adventures, preferably never pursuing a single adventure for an extended period of time. Any adventure that helps further their experience and knowledge of various pursuits is welcome to a factotum. In addition, factotums are always looking to challenge and expand their sizeable amount of skills, not only through the studies they pursue while not adventuring, but also through the experiences the gain while adventuring.
Characteristics: Out of all the classes, factotums are the most versatile. They can choose aspects of other classes to adopt for the day, and can enhance their ability to do certain things at will. As they gain levels, the amount of skill points at their disposal increases rapidly, as does the amount of things they can spend those skill points on. At higher levels, a factotum can rework almost any of their abilities, and might even decide to change various things about their innate self for the sake of exploring a different way of being.
Alignment: Factotums may be of any alignment, though a large amount of factotums are True Neutral. This is because they usually favor impartiality and balance as opposed to an unyielding moral stance. Thusly, few factotums are at any ‘alignment extreme’, though an experienced factotum may explore adventuring as various alignments over the course of their lives.
Religion: The deities any given factotum worships often vary as much as their abilities do. They may experiment with worshiping one deity or another at any given time, attempting to gain favor from as many as possible. However, many factotums favor gods of knowledge, experience, and neutrality.
Background: Most factotums come from backgrounds where they were able to witness or experience many different – often conflicting – things. Rarely do you find a factotum who came from a culture or community that only encouraged one type of activity. In addition to this, many factotums were indecisive when it came time for them to pursue a course in life, and instead elected to attempt to follow all possible courses available to them.
Races: Humans, more often than any other race, are drawn to the path of the factotum. Their ambition and versatility, as well as their vastly varied backgrounds, make human homelands – especially those that involve many cultures – a breeding ground for skilled factotums. Elven factotums are the least rare of other races to be factotums if simply because of their extended lifespan, which gives them the ability to pursue and explore many different paths over the course of countless years. Halfling and gnomish factotums are sometimes seen, as their cultures display a variety of aspects that a member might find conflicting and incompatible, yet equally intriguing. Dwarven factotums are rarely seen as their culture encourages relatively few ways of thinking.
Other Classes: Factotums work well with all sorts of people, even if those people are fully committed to a single path in life. The factotum sees being with others as a way to live vicariously, gaining experience secondhand and seeing how another uses their abilities to achieve a certain goal. Often, spending time with a wide variety of others inspires a factotum to try out that way of living, and usually gives the factotum the ability to channel those experiences when a situation arises that requires his help. Because of this, factotums enjoy working with as much a variety of companions as possible.
Role: Factotums are rarely leaders, though they may sometimes take up that mantle in a group temporarily as they are, if properly prepared, perfectly capable of doing so. Factotums excel at using vast amounts of skills with unmatched ease, but also are very good at adopting any needed role in a party. If a party is missing a melee combatant, a factotum will gladly don armor and wield a weapon. If a group of adventurers needs a healer, a factotum might decide to pray to many gods and adopt a more priestly attitude to better meet their needs.
Alignment: Any (though most factotums favor True Neutral)
Hit Die: d4
Class Skills
All skills are class skills for the factotum.
Skill Points: 8 + Int modifier (× 4 at 1st level)
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the factotum.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A factotum is proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and light shields. A factotum can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a factotum wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure. A multiclass factotum still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: A factotum casts arcane and divine spells. He can eventually learn and prepare any arcane or divine spell in scroll form by adding the spell to his spellbook or prayerbook (depending on whether that form of the spell is arcane or divine). Like wizards and archivists and unlike clerics or druids, factotums prepare spells from both a spellbook and prayerbook, a collection of copied arcane and divine spells. To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, a factotum must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level, and must also have a high enough Intelligence to gain a bonus spell per day from that spell level, and must also expend skill points to cast spells from the appropriate spell slot (see Insightful Casting and Table: Factotum Spells Per Day). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an factotum’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the factotum's Intelligence modifier.
Unlike other spellcasters, a factotum may only cast his bonus spells per day (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells), and only those if he chooses the ‘Insightful Casting’ Insight and expends the appropriate skill points for each spell. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by resting and spending time studying his spellbook and/or prayerbook. The factotum decides which spells to prepare while studying.
Insight: Starting at 1st level, a factotum starts each day with an amount of skill points equal to 8 + his Intelligence modifier (× 4 at 1st level), and gains more skill points as he gains factotum levels, which are added to this total of unspent points. A factotum can allocate his available skill points to various areas of expertise, essentially allowing him to train skills over the course of a day, as needed. He never permanently trains a given skill like members of other classes do, but he might regularly train a certain skill if he so desires. He also has the ability to ‘spend’ skill points on other abilities. Once these skill points have been used, either on training skills or anything else, they cannot be regained until the factotum rests, at which point the benefit he gained from expending the skill points is reset. Immediately after resting, a factotum must choose one of these Insights (an aspect of the character that can be enhanced with skill points as needed) to which this ability applies. A factotum will always have access to his main Insight, Insightful Skills, and it does not count towards his total available Insights he can choose after resting. Any skill points expended and effects gained thereof last until the factotum rests, and can be reset each time a factotum has rested. In order to ‘regain’ the expended skill points, a factotum must rest, thus removing any benefit they gained from any expended skill points.
Insightful Skills: a factotum may spend 1 skill point to increase his ability to use a given skill by 1 at any time during the day, to a maximum of his factotum level + 3 for any given skill. A factotum always has access to this Insight, and it does not count towards his total Insights he can choose after resting.
Insightful Health: a factotum may spend 1 skill point to increase his hit points by 2 at any time during the day, to a maximum of 12 hit points per factotum level including his hit points gained from his Hit Dice, but not including his hit points gained from any other effect, including his Constitution modifier.
Insightful Attack: a factotum may spend 4 skill points to increase his base attack bonus by 1 at any time during the day, to a maximum equal to an equivalent fighter’s base attack bonus (‘full’ base attack bonus) at the factotum’s level. At 6th level, he may gain up to an extra attack (at +6/+1), and again at 11th (at +11/+6/+1), and so on, just like an equivalent level fighter.
Insightful Defense: a factotum may spend 4 skill points to increase his dodge bonus to Armor Class by 1 at any time during the day, to a maximum equal to his factotum level.
Insightful Saves: a factotum may spend 4 skill points to increase a given save bonus by 1 at any time during the day, to maximum equal to an equivalent monk’s base save bonus (all ‘good’ saves) at the factotum’s level in any given save.
Insightful Casting: a factotum may spend skill points to cast a limited number of spells each day. In order to cast a spell, he must a) have access to the desired spell level (see Table: Factotum Spells Per Day), b) have a high enough Intelligence score to gain at least one bonus spell for the desired spell level (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells; in addition to the information listed on this table, the factotum also gains access to bonus cantrips and orisons per day), c) have his desired spell in his spellbook or prayerbook, d) prepare his available bonus spells after resting, e) choose this Insight after resting, at the same time he is preparing his spells, allowing him to expend skill points to cast the desired spell(s), and f) expend the skill points as the spell is cast. The skill point cost for casting a spell is 1 for a 0th level spell, 2 for a 1st level, 4 for 2nd level, 9 for 3rd, 16 for 4th, 25 for 5th, 36 for 6th, 49 for 7th, 64 for 8th, and 81 for 9th. If a factotum does not meet these requirements, or does not have enough unspent skill points at his disposal, he is unable to cast the spell.
Feat Pool: Starting at 2nd level, the factotum gains access to a ‘pool’ of feats. These feats can be accessed or ‘equipped’ whenever the factotum assigns abilities for the day, after resting. The factotum adds one feat for which they meet the prerequisites to the pool at every level they do not gain a feat normally, but normally gained feats are also added to the pool. However, at the beginning of the day, the factotum can only actually use or equip a number of feats from his feat pool equal to what a character of equal level gains access to. If the factotum gains a racial bonus feat (like a human does), they can use another feat from their pool at a time.
For example, a 3rd level human factotum has a total of 4 feats in their pool (2 from their normal feats at 1st and 3rd, 1 from being human, and an extra 1 feat at 2nd level when they would not normally gain a feat), but can only add 3 to their useable feats at the start of the day. While these feats can be any 3 from the pool, if he takes a feat that has a feat prerequisite, he must add both feats to his equipped feats for the day. Thus, for example, a factotum cannot add only the feat Great Cleave to their useable feats that day, they must also add Power Attack and Cleave, or none at all, and only if they have added those feats to their Feat Pool.
While a factotum must meet the feat, ability score or racial requirements for a potential feat, due to their innately flexible nature, they automatically qualify for any skill prerequisites as long as the necessary skill ranks to not exceed their factotum level + 3 (for example, a factotum must be at least 7th level to qualify for the Spellcraft requirement of Aegis of Rime). In addition, their base attack bonus counts as equal to their factotum level for similar requirements, but only for feats. In addition, he may meet any spellcasting requirements as long as it is possible for him to, at any given level, choose his abilities in such a way that allows him to qualify, but he may do this only for the purpose of feats.
Mimicry: Starting at 3rd level, a factotum can adopt the class features of other classes. He can adopt one class feature per day, but this decision must be made immediately after resting. Starting at 7th level, he can adopt two class features, three at 11th, and so on. A factotum’s level must be at least equal to that of the class that possesses the feature they are adopting. For example, if a factotum chooses to adopt the druid’s Wild Shape ability, they may not do so until they are at least 5th level (the same level the druid itself gains access to the ability), at which point they may only use the ability once a day (the same amount as a 5th level druid). If a class feature involves a progression, a factotum may adopt the class feature as if he were of an equivalent level. For example, if a 15th level factotum chooses the rogue’s Sneak Attack class feature for one of his Mimicries, he may sneak attack with a bonus of 8d6 (the same amount as a rogue of equal level). If a class feature does not involve a progression of any kind, the factotum only gains that one feature, because there are no associated features. If a factotum wishes to adopt a class feature from a specific prestige class, he must first allocate any skill points, feats from his Feat Pool, or make any other changes to his abilities as necessary to qualify for the prestige class itself for the day. This may involve choosing certain Insights to make the necessary changes. If he is unable to make these changes, he may not take the ability from that prestige class for his Mimicry. The class features a factotum has chosen may be reset after he has rested.
Bonus Feats: Starting at 4th level, and every two levels thereafter, a factotum gains access to a bonus feat. The feat chosen may be any existing feat. In order to gain a bonus feat, a factotum must meet the prerequisite rules for using feats listed under the Feat Pool class feature. These bonus feats are added to the Feat Pool, and also add to the number of feats a factotum can have ‘equipped’ from the Feat Pool at any given time.
Improved Proficiency (Ex): At 7th level, a factotum's ability to use arms and armor expands. He gains proficiency in all martial weapons, medium armor, and heavy shields.
Perfect Proficiency (Ex): At 14th level, a factotum can now use any arms or armor he can find. He gains proficiency in all exotic weapons, heavy armor, and tower shields.
Jack of All Trades (Ex): A 20th level factotum can use his highest ability score in place of any other where an ability score would be used as a bonus to a skill.
Table: The Factotum
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|Insight (1)
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|Feat Pool
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+1|Mimicry (1)
4th|+2|+1|+1|+1|Bonus Feat
5th|+2|+1|+1|+1|Insight (2)
6th|+3|+2|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
7th|+3|+2|+2|+2|Mimicry (2), Improved Proficiency
8th|+4|+2|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
9th|+4|+3|+3|+3|Insight (3)
10th|+5|+3|+3|+3|Bonus Feat
11th|+5|+3|+3|+3|Mimicry (3)
12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|Insight (4)
14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+4|Bonus Feat, Perfect Proficiency
15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Mimicry (4)
16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+5|Bonus Feat
17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+5|Insight (5)
18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Bonus Feat
19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Mimicry (5)
20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Jack of All Trades
[/table]
Table: Factotum Spells Per Day
{table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-
8th|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-|-
9th|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-
10th|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-|-
11th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-
12th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-|-
13th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-
14th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-|-
15th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-
16th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|-
17th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
18th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
19th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
20th|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
[/table]Last edited by Everynone; 2014-06-09 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Class changes.
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2013-06-18, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
What was wrong with the original Factotum? Also, Insight is unclear how you spend skillpoints (huh?) and Mimicry is hilariously broken (Any class feature from any class, including prestige classes, at first level?)
Last edited by yugi24862; 2013-06-18 at 03:04 PM.
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2013-06-18, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
This class has really irked my friend. He thinks that giving factotums access to 7th, 8th, and especially 9th level arcane and divine spells (even though it only two per day, plus bonus Int) is too powerful. My point was that giving them access to these spells at a uses per day penalty makes them no more powerful than an equivalent level wizard. So, is that too powerful in consort with the factotum's other class abilities, or is it just regular tier 1?
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2013-06-18, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Mimicry...thats right, I hate messing up on RAW. I haven't decided yet but I might rule that in order to get PrC features, you need to qualify as normal for that day (take any feats from the Feat Pool, expend skill points, etc) but as per usual, the features would reset at the end of the day.
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2013-06-18, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Well, I'm not sure if this is a finished product or not. I REALLY hope it's not. In any case here we go...oh, my comments are in this colour.
So, yeah, this needs work. If you need me to be more succinct or need further explanation or whatnot, feel free to PM me. I honestly don't feel that the Factotum needs a re-write, but I'm always willing to help."Bender knows love, and love doesn't share itself with the world. Love is suspicious, love is needy. Love is fearful, love is greedy. My friends, there is no great love without great jealousy!"- Bender Bending Rodriguez
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2013-06-18, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
I'm sorry but this is one of the most broken things I've seen in a long time.
1. Seriously, you just made a full spellcaster with full access to every spell in existence without needing other broken feats/prcs/other options. While other casters may get some relatively nice bells and whistles for their spellcasting (such as spontaneous casting), this is the best spellcasting option for any class out there.
2. It is not at all clear how insight actually works. Do you spend all of your skill points this way (in which case listing class skills is kind of odd) or do you spend on this class feature as if it were its own skill (kind of like truespeech). Judging from the rest of the class, I'm guessing that you intended to make a class feature that would let you re-spend your skill points on the fly each day (which would be incredibly broken but let insight work).
3. As said, mimicry is incredibly broken. Copying PrC things like metamagic reducers or a planar shepherd's ability to bend time over its knee is a no-no and you don't even have to be of a level where it was required. Combine that with the ability to copy the central class features of several classes (such as a binder's soul binding) and you get quite a bit of madness.
4. Reselecting feats is a huge thing. It is perhaps what the chameleon PrC is best known for. Letting them do it with all of their feats and no limits is really kind of bonkers altogether.
Let me put this into perspective. Without the spellcasting, this class is still a quite powerful tier 3 class (or maybe tier 2 if you have enough splat-books with good features to mimic and feats to take). It is essentially a gestalt character who takes the best elements of several classes and who can recreate itself on a daily basis. This is already incredibly powerful. On top of that, you decided to add what is essentially the best spellcasting ever added (I really doubt that low spells per day is as influential as you think). This is, without a doubt in my mind, more powerful than any official base class.
Also, and I'm more curious than accusatory with this last point, but were you actually looking at the factotum when you made this class? So much of this class seems kind of awkward next to the original (such as listing out every skill instead of just saying that all skills are available or using skill points for insight when inspiration points were already a thing available for use) that I just kind of wonder.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2013-06-18 at 04:33 PM.
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2013-06-18, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
The... regular Factotum caps out at 7th level spells... arcane only...
Xaotiq1 said most of the things that I was going to. You need to clarify durations of Insight and Mimicry, because as-written, you are using a daily resource to permanently adding things. You also need to specify how many "skill points" you get per day.
As written right now, this class is quientissential T1-- capable of doing everything, as well as or better than what it's emulating. You have access to every spell in the game, as well as every useful class feature every written.
In conclusion... your friend is right. SorryHill Giant Games
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2013-06-18, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Alright, obviously this class needs a major RAW re-write. I think I'm going to limit the spells to 6th level also. To clarify, this class was only based on the original factotum in name and versatility. This class was not intended to be a full-caster, or full anything really, its just meant to turn into a needed party slot on the fly. Xaotiq1 mentioned alotta things that just made me notice the class is written badly, not badly intentioned. No offense to him (because I'm blaming the misunderstanding on myself and my writing) he misunderstood alot of the purposes behind class features (e.g., skill points are actual skill points, and whatnot). I'll publish a re-write of this class as an edit on the original post later today. Thanks for the feedback, this is my first class build. :-$
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2013-06-19, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Okay, I have edited my original post to reflect the changes I have made to the class. I will hopefully be able to post later today on why I made the changes, but the majority of them were clarifying RAI as RAW. Also made some mechanics changes that nerf the RAI a bit, and the RAW a lot. And, of course, added fluff. :-) Btw, thanks for everyone who critiqued the class earlier. Your comments helped me write the class in it's current iteration. This is, obviously, by no means a finished class.
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2013-06-19, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Reasons for Why I Chose What I Chose
This is because the factotum, as a 'blank slate', should start at the lowest hit die, because it has the ability to 'raise' it's hit die via 'Insightful Health'.
Because one of the main class features, Insight, is entirely powered by skill points, I figured giving them 8 + Int and not changing the cost of 'Insightful Skill' (the classes signature Insight) would highly encourage playing the factotum as a skill-monkey. The cost of other Insights, however, I am willing to change. I only set them where I did because at 20th level, maxing out HP, BAB, AC, and saves costs about the same for each, and I wanted any casting to cost a lot.
I basically gave them proficiency for everything. I combined fighter's proficiencies with a bard's ability to cast in light armor. I did this because I couldn't figure out a mechanic the already existed in this class that allows you to adopt proficiencies. The closest thing I had was Mimicry, but since proficiencies aren't, strictly speaking, class features, I just gave it to em. I'm still considering giving them the monk's weapon proficiencies as well.
Since these guys are my attempt at the jack-of-all-trades, I needed to give them casting of some kind. And I needed to give them access to as many spells as possible, at very least divine and arcane. Also (I didn't know how to write this in), for the purposes of qualifying for anything, the player must choose whether to treat his factotum levels as arcane of divine caster levels. This entire spellcasting system is brand-new is this iteration, so I need more critiques on it than usual.
Insight is basically a factotum's way of rewriting 'Table: The Factotum' as needed. He can adopt any skills, hit die, base attack bonus, increase his armor class, make all his saves good, and even gain access to (limited spells per day) full caster progression as long as he has the skill points to do the job.
This is a factotum's signature Insight, and his 'dump Insight' when he is focusing on others. This is what makes a factotum my attempt at the ultimate skill monkey.
This allows a factotum to essentially increase their hit die from a d4 to a d12, assuming the house rule of max hit die rolls. At level 20, the cost to max this is 80 skill points.
This one is worded awkwardly, but essentially it means to increase their BAB to any amount as necessary, to max of full BAB. At level 20, raising their +10/+5 Ab to +20/+15 only costs 40 skill points, but to gain the extra attacks of an actual full BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5, the cost is 70 skill points.
This is meant to give them that extra AC bonus when they need it (like when wearing light armor). The max is, at level 20, 20 AC at the cost of 80 skill points.
Again, this one is worded awkwardly, but it means to give them a monk's saves, if they choose to max out. The nice thing about Insights is that you don't have to max anything out if you don't want to. At level 20, taking all saves from +6 to +12 costs 72 skill points.
This is my attempt at allowing factotums to cast any spell, while simultaneously penalizing them heavily for it by essentially treating their available skill points as a mana system. A factotum at level 20 with an Int of 24 (highest roll of 18, no racial changes, +6 via leveling - we have a houserule that gives two ability points for allocation at level 20 - and no Int-enhancing items) for example, can cast 2 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells, and 1 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th level spell per day, at the cost of 158 skill points.
More to come later; I will edit this post with the rest of my explanations included.
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2013-06-19, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Trapped in a basement
Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Has this friend of your actually read what the factotum can do? from what it sounds like, he's thinking of chameleon, which is a PrC from RoD. Also with the chameleon, divine spells are keyed off of Wis, while arcane is keyed off Int, and until you get double aptitude, you can only choose one.
A) Factotums max out at 7th level spells, and can only use 1 per day, and this is not affected by your Int bonus, but purely your factotum level.
B) Factotums only get access to arcane magic, divine is covered by opportunistic piety which grants healing (harm vs undead) and turning.
C) Your point is moot as factotum's casting is limited by 3 things. First, it maxes at 7th level spells as stated earlier. Second, You only get up to 8 uses of arcane dilettante per day at max. Third, you cannot prepare the same spell more than once. These severely cripple a factotum's spellcasting and pretty much force you into using utility spells and long duration buffs if you want the greatest use per spell.A single action cannot and should not define a character's alignment. While a single action can have an alignment, a character's alignment is the culmination of all actions taken, and most importantly the purpose and intent for why those actions were taken.
My Homebrews:
Alu-Fiend + Lesser Variant[PEACH]
Benders, Avatar: The Last Airbender Inspired Classes [PEACH]
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2013-06-19, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-06-19, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible and inferior remake of a perfectly well-done class. I see nothing here that isn't a total downgrade. Not the spellcasting, not the chassis, not the features, nothing.
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2013-06-19, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Actually, allowing for the ruling that spellcasting is Ex (a fairly solid assertion, as RAW is pretty unambiguous, but clearly unintended) a factotum can get level 8 spells.
Yeah, 8, not 9.
No time to prepare, rest, or any of that. That means the factotum grabs sha'ir spellcasting, sends away a gen familiar, and hopes for the 25% chance that it returns with a level 8 spell. Which it keeps for one turn.
Oh yeah, the gen probably needs to be brought with you before hand, and the familiar ability emulated, before it can be acquired. So that's 2 uses of cunning brilliance.
But the above is clearly "optimization", and clearly not worth it. But it also means there's a small chance every day that the factotum 20 gets to cast PaO, which may just be broken enough to make up for the absurd use of cunning brilliance. But who lets PaO in their games.Last edited by sledgehammer; 2013-06-19 at 10:57 PM.
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2013-06-19, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Yeah, I'm not talking about the original factotum, I was talking about my first version of a virtually unrelated rewrite. But now I have a new (not finished) version that hopefully corrects a lot of the mistakes of the first. Sorry if there was any confusion...I know the original factotum can't cast 8th or 9th level spells, and arcane only, but my "factotum" can.
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2013-06-19, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-06-20, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
That's part of the problem. The Factotum is basically in the sweet spot where it's always useful and never a game-breaking monstrosity.
That aside, dead levels up the ass, yo.
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2013-06-20, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Okey-dokey, Artichokey. Here we are again. I see there has been much work, but ooohhh so much more to do. Well, let's throw another PEACH at this and see what falls out. As previous, my comments will be in this color!
Yup, good progress, but this thing isn't nearly enough up to code for a character to take levels in it. It's been mentioned (and I believe done) before to look at the Chameleon PrC in Races of Destiny (p111). It's 10 levels, but could easily be stretched to 20 with a little elbow grease. Hope this helps more than it hurts!
All right. There's PEACH #2. I'm going to take a peek at a few things and see if I can't put together something that illustrates my points better. This may take a bit as that pesky job I have takes so much out of my homebrewing time. Keep on this; but keep an eye out for balance issues. I'm not sure about your level of experience with homebrew or D&D 3.5 (Shaft knows I need large doses of both), but take a good long look at all of the base and prestige classes out there and ask yourself, "If I were the DM, would this cause me large amounts of pain." If your answer is remotely close to yes, then you need to scale it back a tick. Peace and chicken grease!"Bender knows love, and love doesn't share itself with the world. Love is suspicious, love is needy. Love is fearful, love is greedy. My friends, there is no great love without great jealousy!"- Bender Bending Rodriguez
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2013-08-13, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
So at the risk of resurrecting a 2 month old thread, have you done any more work with this? Some of the people's comments seemed to make a lot of sense, and some less so (nobody really *got* what you were trying to do with skill points, did they? Don't worry, I did.) One suggestion I would have is that you should go through and try to *actually* build one of the stronger casting classes, and I think it's probably going to come out more powerful. By level 20 it's easy enough to get +10 to your int modifier, and you should probably be looking at more like +15 for your upper level of reasonable play. Given that, build your class out and a wizard out, and see which one is more powerful. Don't hesitate to take PrCs on the wizard -- your class takes them, just by being itself. I would hesitate to give double/triple full casting to your class. If you really wanted, you could give it The wizard's spell list as a full caster, the cleric's list as a bard, and the druid list as a ranger, or even let the player choose which list to put in which place (though they'd be crazy to pick any other arrangement.) You might even let them take martial progression as one of those casting progressions, and detail out the martial progression they would get. Also, for RAW, be sure that you restrict "Class abilities" away from "Casting". You don't want someone taking Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, and Factotum2.0 casting at level 20, and as you've currently written the class, it can do that.
Now given all that, I just want to say that I like the idea, and that people are giving you a really bad rap but this is a good idea that is hard to balance. I'd like to see more of it, and maybe even help you smooth the edges out. :DCredit for my AMAZING avatar of Reglanere, the catfolk ex-captain/first mate with flair, goes to the amazing and talented Ceika, who took my difficult request, ran with it, and not only made all the changes I asked for, but did so gracefully. Much props to her!
_______________________________________________
Nick: Wait do you use Charm Person at will?
Me: ...no!
Yes.
Nick: -_-
Cheater
YOU HAVE NO REAL FRIENDS
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2013-12-01, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Factotum (3.5e Base Class)
So, I was looking back at some of my old homebrews, and I realized this one had some promise, so I just updated it. I'd like be open to critiquing on RAW and balancing issues, so I was very glad when I saw the reply from Alokue. I'm now considering how best to specify that spellcasting is not, strictly speaking, a class feature subject to Mimicry, so thanks for pointing that out.
Any other commentary or critiquing would be welcome.
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2013-12-01, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Factotum (3.5e Base Class)
I really like this class. That said, harsh criticisms:
Insight is a great idea. I haven't looked very hard at the numbers to see if the number of skill points you get is about right, but it doesn't look too bad at first glance. Maybe cap save bonuses at your Factotum level rather than at a Good save, or maybe limit the increase to your Int mod. Idea for another class feature - have skills based off of Int, maybe spend skill points to get that.
The feat pool works well. I almost wonder if it doesn't give you enough options, but I love the idea that you can be a Sneak Attacking Rogue, and then switch to being an Imperious Command / Intimidating Rager when something immune to crits shows up. (Yes, this is a bad example, because most things with fortification are immune to crits). One thing that's not clear with the feat pool is whether you can take multiple crits
The least effective thing about the original Factotum was the ridiculously fuzzy ability to emulate class features. Can you emulate Spellcasting? Turn Undead? What about X other ability from this other splatbook? Oooh, I found this new really broken combination of class features!
I think the only way to make it work is to do a more expansive version of what the Chameleon does and list which class features you're allowed to use, and precisely how they work. Yes, I know that's a ton of work - but I think it might be necessary to make Mimicry work (and for the record I think Mimicry is a great idea).
The other thing that probably needs fixing is the spells. It's fine if you're aiming to make this a Tier 1, but better-than-Wizard isn't really a great balance point. For this Factotum to be fun to play, you need it to be slightly worse than any other class at doing what those other classes do - otherwise everyone else in the party is going to be overshadowed.
For a start, I'd nerf the spell progression. No-one should be casting ninths, not least a class with this many other options, and not both arcane and divine. Bard progression should be adequate. Only casting bonus spells is cool, though.
The problem is that you don't want to limit your spellcasting options too much, but a prepared caster doesn't have the kind of awesome flexibility that this class should have. I really think you should specify the lists you can cast off, as well, to stop Trapsmith cheese like level 1 Haste. Then... I don't know. Specify a spell list and/or a school of magic, and cast only those spells that day, but spontaneously? Have a very large pool of spells known, and then each day select some fraction of those to be cast spontaneously? It's tough without making things a bookkeeping disaster.
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2013-12-02, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Factotum (3.5e Base Class)
I considered that, but I specifically wanted the class to be able to 'rewrite it's class table', as it were. Also, considering a player's ability to increase their Int modifier to astronomical levels using cheese, I figured limiting their saves to be as good as any class with a good save made sense.
I'm sure it gives you enough options, considering the bonus feats. Also, this is probably on me, but I don't understand what you mean by 'taking multiple crits'. What do you mean?
To be honest, I only partially used what I heard the original factotum could do when building this class...
*hides face in shame*
If I could do that, and update the class features every time I made a homebrew change or found a fix I liked, I would. It would be a TON of paperwork, so really my only hope with this is that if there is a class feature out there, the DM has to okay it for the factotum to use.
I know...it's a powerful class, but really, my goal with the balancing with for it to be a tier that I'm not sure exists. I wanted it to be almost as good at a given role as a class built for it (such as a tanking for a fighter) if it invested heavily on a given day. The only thing that makes the class strictly better than others is it's ability to change it's role each day. So...it's not meant to be better than the fighter at fighting, or the wizard at casting spells, but if it's statted correctly and it chooses it's abilities correctly at the beginning of the day, it can get the job done. That said, I don't think it's better than wizard when it comes to casting...the way I see it, wizards get all the important arcane spells anyways, so I look at this class like a gestaltish wizard/archivist who gets NO spells per day, only bonus spells, AND has to expend skill points to do it. They have to pay heavily for the ability to be almost as good as a wizard, and by investing in that, they give up other options they could've used. A wizard doesn't have to do that. On the flip-side, I'm not entirely against bard progression...but for me, it just goes against the grain. If, at a level where someone would be expected to be able to cast, say, Meteor Swarm, and someone asked a factotum to do that, I'd like them to be able to say that they could, as long as they haven't invested too heavily in other areas.
I think I'll stick to a prepared caster...mechanically, I'd say that a factotum is to a rogue what a wizard is to a sorcerer (when comparing skills to spells). Being able to re-memorize your spells each day at the cost of spells per day is metaphorically exactly this classes MO in every area. It also helps that Int is primarily used as a stat for skill monkeys and memorized/prepared casters. Specifying a spell list would be quite easy (I'd probably just go with Wizard and Cleric and be done with it), but again, that goes against the grain, if, say, someone asked a factotum to cast Glibness (if that's a good example).
I hope you understand a little better what I was trying to do with this class...if it feels like I'm just shutting down your ideas, I really am sorry, I'm just picky about this and I'm trying to find a balance where the 'do anything' idea matches mechanical feasibility.
Thanks for the pointers though. I'm still considering what changes I might make, and I suspect this class is not done yet."Cool quote soon to come here." - Everynone, an indecisive forum-user
Currently Playing: The Elements of Power, as Kyrios Pacem, the pacifist monk.
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2013-12-02, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Factotum (3.5e Base Class)
You're probably right, I just like the idea of being able to boost your Fort save really high on the day you know you're going up against a Basilisk. Maybe max the base save bonus at your Factotum level? Or it's probably just fine as it is.
Sometimes, when it looks like someone is being a total idiot, they're actually just being a total idiot. I must have got distracted when I wrote that late last night. What I meant was it's not obvious if you can take one of the feats in your pool multiple times. (I think you probably should be able to).
Also, I think the problem is the size of the feat pool relative to the number of 'active' feats you have. A 12th-level Human Factotum is going to have nine active feats, and an additional seven in the pool (assuming you add pool feats on levels you get bonus feats, which is not massively clear). That's not enough to completely change your fighting style every day, let alone to give you options.
My personal preference would be to strip out most or all of the bonus feats and instead dramatically enlarge the feat pool, or maybe for easier bookkeeping have several separate feat lists that you can swap out for each other each day.
Understandable.
If someone would be expected to cast, say, Gate or Shapechange or Mind Rape or Ice Assassin or Body Outside Body...
A 'gestaltish Wizard / Archivist' is not really something that should exist in the game. I would say this class is much more powerful than the standard Wizard. You can get access to all kinds of crazy tricks. Divine Metamagic, for example. You can cast Haste as a level 1 spell. You can cast Summon Giants as a level 4 spell. And that's notwithstanding that you can get access to any ridiculous trick that any caster in the game is capable of pulling off.
I guess if you want a class that can do those things, that's OK too.
I think I understand a bit better, yeah.
If I was building this class from the ground up, here's what I'd do.
I'd junk spells entirely. Instead, I'd combine that and Mimicry into a list of class features that you could purchase with skill points. One of those class features would be any Wiz/Sorc/Cleric/Druid/Bard spell as an SLA, with a skill point cost depending on the spell level. (I'd probably put Psionics in as well).
Of course, that would take a massive amount of effort that I don't really want to do, so I don't have any right to tell you what would work well.
I'll just say that I'm quite impressed with what you've done here, even if it does have its flaws.Last edited by Dapperatchik; 2013-12-02 at 06:28 AM.
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2013-12-02, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Mainly everyone here just really likes Tier 3 classes and Factotum fit squarely in that category.
You made your version much, much stronger and that of course ticked people off.
Just make a note next time that you're aiming for Tier 1 or basically upgrading the Factotum. It'll clear up the differences that way.
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2013-12-02, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
You might be interested in my Chameleon base class. It accomplishes the supreme flexibility of a shifting character while staying just shy of Tier 1: it's incredibly powerful an very versatile, but lacks the raw end-game power of the Druid, Artificer, Wizard, and the like.
I think you'll at least find it an interesting read, as it had many concepts in common with your intended design and is, I feel, slightly less book-keeping intensive in how it implements those designs.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2013-12-03, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
I have to admit, I was skeptical at first, but this is exactly along the lines I was thinking of for this class. It doesn't accomplish everything I envision for this class, but it's much more...crisp. I feel like my class is any attempt at 'do anything', while yours is an attempt at 'be anything'. Not quite the same, but very similar. In any event, it's a very cool class. I might steal from ideas from it in the future, but nothing blatant or key to the class (the masks idea, for example, is so cool that I just refuse to touch it).
As an aside, I made a proficiency change to the factotum. I gave them simple weapon, light armor, and light shield prof. at 1st level, and then expanded upon that at levels 7 and 14. This also gave me an excuse to let them be proficient with exotic weapons by level 14. *grins stupidly, imagining a factotum dual-wielding repeating crossbows*"Cool quote soon to come here." - Everynone, an indecisive forum-user
Currently Playing: The Elements of Power, as Kyrios Pacem, the pacifist monk.
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2013-12-03, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5e] Factotum (Rebuilt, Base Class)
Always happy to help!
Speaking of which...I wanted to give you a more in-depth critique, but my critiques typically take me a LONG time to write (so I've gotten out of the habit, now that I have a full time job again), so I thought I'd try something new.
If you've got 13 minutes to spare, here's a video (audio only) critique of what you've got so far. It's the first time I've done something like this (it's far easier for me, as it takes me much less time and I can do other work at the same time), so comments/critiques/suggestions for future reviews would be excellent. Hell...I'd settle for knowing if a verbal review is even at all convenient or useful for you.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.