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2013-10-05, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
So some of the events may have happened in some form within some cyrstal sphere or the other from a certain point of view? Possibly with some adjustment so that it could not be gibberish to three-dimensional meat popsicles.
So for example, Gruumsh and Corellon Larethian know what the real beef between the two of them is, the myths just may or may not have any bearing on what happened between them or have been a convenient explanation after the fact for conflicts between the races under their patronage.
Hm. On a semi-related note. Did Lathander have to actually be Amaunator for what happened to him to happen or was it merely necessary for everyone to start believing that Lathander was actually Amaunator? Or is it one of those things where it could have happened the latter way, but it would have required a lot more belief than would feasibly have been able to be brought to bear on that task due to the hole in the donut-shape?
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2013-10-05, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Is there a way for crystal spheres to form, either naturally or artificially, that doesn't involve overdeities? If their isn't, then where did Aboleths come from?
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2013-10-05, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Well Haask, Voice of Hargut isn't a power right? He's not even really up to the level of the other uniques. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he more of a powerful minion? 3 adventurers were able to defeat what would become part of him (powerful ones but still). So that could explain the exception. Ghaunadaur isn't averse to minions.
Fascinating. Can another god "become" a racial diety or does he have to actually create the race?
What is a "race" in dnd fluff anyways? Are demons as a whole a race? Are Tanar'ri and Obyriths separate races? Are Bar-lguras and Chasme separate races?
If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race? This seemed to happen to Lolth...but she was a god previously so that kind of muddies things a bit.
Sorry for the obvious follow-up but why is this?
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2013-10-05, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Indeed. For instance, in Realmspace, it really was Selune and Shar and Mystryl and Chauntea and Tempus and yada yada yada all that stuff actually happened.
So for example, Gruumsh and Corellon Larethian know what the real beef between the two of them is, the myths just may or may not have any bearing on what happened between them or have been a convenient explanation after the fact for conflicts between the races under their patronage.
Hm. On a semi-related note. Did Lathander have to actually be Amaunator for what happened to him to happen or was it merely necessary for everyone to start believing that Lathander was actually Amaunator? Or is it one of those things where it could have happened the latter way, but it would have required a lot more belief than would feasibly have been able to be brought to bear on that task due to the hole in the donut-shape?
They form naturally as well, yes. No known method can make or break a crystal sphere.
He was a power at some point (cf. "Seven Lost Gods").
Fascinating. Can another god "become" a racial diety or does he have to actually create the race?
What is a "race" in dnd fluff anyways?
Are demons as a whole a race?
Are Tanar'ri and Obyriths separate races?
Are Bar-lguras and Chasme separate races?
If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race?
This seemed to happen to Lolth...but she was a god previously so that kind of muddies things a bit.
Sorry for the obvious follow-up but why is this?Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-10-05 at 05:11 PM.
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2013-10-05, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
So are the various demons part of any races at all?
So is being a "custodian" of a race different than being a patron of a race? How so?
Are there any other "custodians" of other races? How do you become one?
Well gods gain dominion over various "things" like pestilience, worms, elves etc. Demons are a "thing" so why wouldn't a god be able to gain dominion over them?
I know that this is probably flawed in thirty different ways but it was my general assumption as to why I assumed "possible god of demonkind" was the default.
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2013-10-05, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Not particularly.
So is being a "custodian" of a race different than being a patron of a race? How so?
Lolth was the bloody PATRON of bloody DROW-TO-BE. PATRON. Happy?
Well gods gain dominion over various "things" like pestilience, worms, elves etc. Demons are a "thing" so why wouldn't a god be able to gain dominion over them?Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-10-05 at 05:54 PM.
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2013-10-05, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Sorry man . DnD terminology can be quite specific at times so I didn't know...
Anyways I have some more questions but I think I'll leave the thread for a bit so you can cool down.
EDIT: White text fake out! The "hate you" probably should have tipped me off .
Anyways, questions:
Do you think some Troglodyte tribes might worship Juiblex? He's similar to their racial deity at least...
Why do you think the souls of corrupted SSN's are held in Dis?
What PRC's could you see a worshipper of Demogorgon or Dagon taking (besides the Thralls)?
What makes Lolths case different than the general one I proposed in this question?:
If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race?Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-05 at 07:31 PM.
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2013-10-05, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
They're not particularly similar. Not out of the question, though.
Why do you think the souls of corrupted SSN's are held in Dis?
What PRC's could you see a worshipper of Demogorgon or Dagon taking (besides the Thralls)?
What makes Lolths case different than the general one I proposed in this question?
2) Lolth is a racial god and always was, like Rillifane, Deep Sashelas, Fenmarel, Tarsellis, etc. who are subordinate to Corellon, the originator of elvenkind, but each guardians of a particular elvish subgroup and their way of existence. In short, she already (as Araushnee) possessed the needed credentials. No other demon will ever accomplish that.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-05, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Mostly I was thinking of Laogzed having the slime domain. He's an oozing toad-lizard that exists to eat. he doesn't care about his own followers and only wishes to devour. Normally beings don't want to worship Juiblex because their aren't many benefits but it doesn't really seem that different from worshipping Laogzed.
EDIT; and most importantly, they are both stinky.
Whoops, sorry. I'm talking about the Shadow Sun Ninja PRC from Tome of Battle. I've been toying around with it a lot recently and have gotten used to using that abbreviation. It's a PRC based around the balance of light and dark (they can channel negative and positive energy in alternating rounds, can blind people and shroud themselves in darkness etc). They gain an ability at 10th level that allows them to become a pseudo-vampiric creature. In that state they can drain levels by sacrificing Con. If their Con goes to 0 then they turn into evil vampires and their soul goes to the IRon City of Dis. I'm not really familiar with Dispater so I'm not sure why this would happen. Do you have any ideas? He doesn't have much fluff about light and darkness (or vampires) that I can remember...
In EttFR the Blood Queens realm is in Baator. I'm assuming this is your personal canon? What was your reason for making this decision? The Blood Queen always seemed a bit above things like that to me (heck, her just brushing the Prime created the aboleths).
What amazing places on the planes would you recommend for a planar tourist?
Can you describe Zuggytmoy in terms of her personality?Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-06 at 08:08 AM.
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2013-10-06, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Sounds like they just picked a tough place to get a soul back from.
In EttFR the Blood Queens realm is in Baator. I'm assuming this is your personal canon?
What amazing places on the planes would you recommend for a planar tourist?
Can you describe Zuggytmoy in terms of her personality?Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-06, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Huh...that seems really weird. Does she personally rule it? if not, who does?
And since Elder Evil's have anti-divine properties, how does she have a divine realm?
Perhaps you meant the Manual of the Planes?
So...ambitious and angry. Basically like almost every other demon .
You managed to tie in Orcus's personality fairly well to his portfolio. Any conjecture as to why Zuggtmoy chose hers?
Is there any relationship between humans and doppelgangers?
What are the rules for what you can become a god of (if you don't want to answer this for whatever reason, that's fine. However, I'm not sure if you just missed it)?Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-06 at 11:22 AM.
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2013-10-06, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Aboleths believe she frequently travels the planes and is rarely there, but as a divine realm it's definitely her property.
And since Elder Evil's have anti-divine properties, how does she have a divine realm?
Perhaps you meant the Manual of the Planes?
So...ambitious and angry. Basically like almost every other demon .
You managed to tie in Orcus's personality fairly well to his portfolio. Any conjecture as to why Zuggtmoy chose hers?
Is there any relationship between humans and doppelgangers?
What are the rules for what you can become a god of
There are no rules. Go make up a god of whatever you bloody please. But there's not and will never be a god of demons, nor of devils, archons, eladrin, modrons, slaad, yugoloths, guardinals, rilmani, angels, etc. etc. etc. canonically.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-06, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Here's my own personal idea (not based on anything) of why that is. Any of those given outsiders are exemplars. Being the god(dess) of any of them would boil down to being the god of CE, or NG, or whatever. Which doesn't happen, because the alignment gives you your perspective on what you use your portfolio for. I could think of a LG version of a god of fungus, for example. Same with the different outer planes: you are the god(dess) of one of those, you are the god of the alignment itself. Which doesn't work.
LGBTA+itP
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2013-10-06, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
It seems one part too nebulous because alignment and the plane and all that metaphysical jazz and another part the exemplars would never stand for it.
Spoiler: Warning: Potentially Toxic Levels of Stupid contained within.
Demons can't even work out a Prince of Demons and hate the idea of something having that kind of authority over them, as I understand it, so anything trying to do that would set themselves up as one of the few things that demons could get over themselves to gang up on. Primus and Asmodeus would almost certainly have some words for anything trying to set itself up as god of them, Baalphegor might be more to worry about though. Most of the celestials seem like they'd just straight up laugh at your attempt until it failed from the ridicule. And the Slaad... Albatross Purple Seventy?
Maybe the Eladrin might pretend to humor someone who managed to get them out of their predicament with the chillens, but they'd probably still gank 'em if it seemed like they'd have any chance of success.
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2013-10-06, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Why does the word "purple" (often followed by a number) crop up so often whenever you or someone else plays an impression of slaadi gibberish while, say, "violet" has never been used to my memory? Is there anything inherently chaotic/slaadi-attracting about it?
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2013-10-06, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Not really. There's just this word of two dozen words or so that people just seem to think are inherently fun and random for some reason.
Fish bicycle banana monkey.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2013-10-06, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
But violet victorious vitrolic whenever vary vivid viverra? Seriously, people, viverra kicks all kinds of ass.
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2013-10-06, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Because purple monkey dishwasher.
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2013-10-06, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Plus, last time somebody tried something similar (the Queen of Chaos) the Abyss itself betrayed the Obyrinths and supported their rebellious Tanar'ri slaves. Since then, the souls falling to the Abyss end spontaneously becoming Tanar'ri. Nothing could say "no, thanks, f*ck you" more clearly than that.
And the closest thing to a Prince of the Abyss is Demogorgon, who has sprouted two heads and keeps conspiring against himself...I think that shows how much the Abyss would hate a strong, unified rule and would react against that.
In Baator, on the other hand, the change was forced by the Baatezu, and the plane keeps trying to produce Baatorians instead of Baatezu.Last edited by Clistenes; 2013-10-06 at 05:43 PM.
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2013-10-06, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
So is it more common for racial deities to import their charges when they find a new crystal sphere to move in to or do they just create their races in each new crystal sphere if it's new and young enough for such things?
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2013-10-06, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
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2013-10-06, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
So, say, Gruumsh would have to use some kind of proxy that is not himself, a power, an aspect of himself, or an avatar of himself or get some Orcs to travel there via spelljammer/the plane of shadow/??? or something in order to colonize/seed the new crystal sphere with orcs?
What would be the most likely way for a power that wanted to seed themselves into a virgin crystal sphere to get their racial followers there if there's no overpower to suck up to or the overpower isn't the kind that powers can/will talk to? Get a wizard/cleric minion to open up a gate and herd members of the race through to various points around the crystal sphere that are suitable for them? Create new members of their race from scratch and then gate them in using the power's own magical abilities?
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2013-10-06, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Yes. A bearer of true faith.
What would be the most likely way for a power that wanted to seed themselves into a virgin crystal sphere to get their racial followers there if there's no overpower to suck up to or the overpower isn't the kind that powers can/will talk to?
Create new members of their race from scratch and then gate them in using the power's own magical abilities?Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-06, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Why did she only create new life forms when she brushed against the Prime?
Is she a god? Can non-deific beings have divine realms?
Okay so the chapters are: races, classes and feats, prestige classes, equipment and magic items, spells, creatures of the planes, and planar sites. Only the last seems to actually describe places in the planes.
The subsections in that chapter are Cosmology Overview (which describes the different planes in general), Planar Metropolises, Planar Breaches, and Planar Touchstones. Of those, only the second and last really describe any places a tourist would want to visit. I assume you mean those?
The reason I thought you might have meant the Manual of the Planes is because it has 3 chapter dedicated wholly to the planes.
So when non-uniques ascend, their sphere of influence is picked for them? Can they change it if they want to?
What is the difference between the older generation of tanar'ri and the newer one?
Yeah this was my working hypothesis before I asked Afro.
My question was with the assumption that the latter was discarded. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough?
I know that the exemplars wouldn't allow anyone to do that. My question was more if such a thing was metaphysically possible by the rules of the setting. This is why I said "theoretically". Practically it's impossible.
Though...as Clistenes pointed out, the Queen of Chaos was able to (temporarily) unite the demons. Assuming the metaphysics work, would the demons have revolted even sooner if the Queen had become a god of demons or would they have not minded? Hm.
Am I just imagining things when I see a ton of similarities between Ugudenk and Urdlen?
Previously you said that Kyuss might ally with Ugudenk one he was free of the obelisk and brought about the Age of Worms on the Material Plane? How would this work given that Ugudenk is basically mindless tendril of his layer interested only in eating?
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2013-10-06, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
"Only?" I don't follow.
Is she a god? Can non-deific beings have divine realms?
Okay so I'm going to drastically overanalyze here instead of getting to the point.
So when non-uniques ascend, their sphere of influence is picked for them? Can they change it if they want to?
What is the difference between the older generation of tanar'ri and the newer one?
I know that the exemplars wouldn't allow anyone to do that. My question was more if such a thing was metaphysically possible by the rules of the setting. This is why I said "theoretically". Practically it's impossible.
Since they're not relevant in the lives of potential worshipers and attempting to design a portfolio around them would suffer either from insufficient specificity ("fine then fro, what about if I said god of FIENDS???") or insufficient applicability. More likely both. Attempting to become god of demons sees you die of irrelevance or sees your portfolio expand to cover something more relevant, applicable and specific.
Though...as Clistenes pointed out, the Queen of Chaos was able to (temporarily) unite the demons. Assuming the metaphysics work, would the demons have revolted even sooner if the Queen had become a god of demons or would they have not minded? Hm.
Am I just imagining things when I see a ton of similarities between Ugudenk and Urdlen?
Previously you said that Kyuss might ally with Ugudenk one he was free of the obelisk
and brought about the Age of Worms on the Material Plane? How would this work given that Ugudenk is basically mindless tendril of his layer interested only in eating?
Mr. U. Gudenk
King
Squirming
The Writhing Realm
Dear Mr. Gudenk
It has come to my attention that you are an infinitely long wormlike creature with a fondness for squirming, devouring large things and providing self-insurance policies against return invitations to social functions. As I myself am a great fan of things that squirm and giving polite society the bird, I felt that we share a great deal in common and would get along famously.
I write to you today because I have recently come into possession of a most marvelous my own divine form and freedom from that accursed obelisk. The transaction that yielded this splendid find came complete with a large tract of land in wherever the hell I please, no force on Oerth can stop me now muahahahahaha. I would like to invite you to be my guest at this new estate, from which you and I can take in the sights of thousands of pathetic mortals screaming in terror as the world they knew is devoured and replaced by an empty apocalyptic wasteland filled with undead monstrosities fueled by alien worms.
Enclosed is a train ticket should you wish to take me up on my offer. Be at gate 31, Right Next To You Station at precisely Oh How About Now.
Cordially yours,
Kyuss
Herald
Age of WormsNeed a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-06, 10:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Last edited by Fable Wright; 2013-10-06 at 10:08 PM.
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2013-10-07, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
I'm hoping you can help with with Kaorti. I'm roughly familiar with Kaorti ecology and far realms stuff, but there is one thing that bothers me about their societies.
They make thralls to gain a workforce. I know about the usual mindlessness/slavery thing, but that's not what I'm after. Okay, so do those thralls have to live inside their cacoons/shells/caves or whatever due to the material plane vulnerability? Or do they have to live outside of them because the insides aren't suitable for material-plane creatures?
Basically I can't find anything that specifies whether Kaorti thralls are actualy Kaorti -- massively changed physiology, eating themselves, etc, or just eviler brain-washed but mostly normal versions of their previous selves.
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2013-10-07, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Thralls do not possess the Material Vulnerability trait. Only true kaorti do.
Basically I can't find anything that specifies whether Kaorti thralls are actualy Kaorti -- massively changed physiology, eating themselves, etc, or just eviler brain-washed but mostly normal versions of their previous selves.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2013-10-07, 01:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
This isn't really a question but thanks for talking about bags of devouring either in this thread or an earlier one. As it made me track down the ecology article in dragon 271. I now have a new campaign set piece.
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2013-10-07, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!
Glad to help.
Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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