Results 181 to 205 of 205
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2014-03-16, 04:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Makes me actually wonder if Xykon, Redcloak or MitD can call double-bluff. The latter is unlikely because in this scenario there would probably be no O-Chul to unleash his cerebral potential, X is probably too lazy to even think about that and too angry that there is no Gate for him to see, but Redcloak perhaps has enough wisdom and knowledge of the elements to think about using a lead sheet.
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2014-03-16, 05:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Valencia, Spain
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Xykon was almost dead when Redcloak entered the scene and casted harm on him. After that, even with Redcloak rebuking the Ghost Martyrs, Soon was able to overpower both of them.
So, the azurites needed just one small push to tip the balance there. And even if Xykon began blasting the Order away, we know Haley is pretty much inmune to any spell that grants a reflex saving throw.
Anyway, Hinjo and the Order doesn't even need to get into the throne room, they just need to guard the entrance and make sure no one gets in there until Soon finishes Xykon.
Now, let's say for the sake of argument that they somehow survive that and manage to defeat Xykon. They hold the throne room. Big whoop--the rest of the city still gets overrun with hobgoblins
Anyway, my point is that the Azurites could still win the war at a point so advanced as #449. If smarter tactical choices had been made earlier (like recalling V after she cast the mass enlarge person, so she could help battle Xykon, Roy not facing Xykon alone, the Order rushing to the breach instead that fighting in the walls, etc...) they may have been able to contain the hobbos outside the city.
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2014-03-16, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Annapolis, Maryland
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2014-03-16, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
I wish people would stop saying that. Obviously its a comic therefore they were going to lose. That's not the point. Were discussing if Azure City could, with the resources we knew it had against the resources we knew the hobgoblins had, have survived the assault. Not would have, could have.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2014-03-16, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Annapolis, Maryland
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Stop saying what, that this sort of speculation is ultimately useless because we aren't looking at a scenario in a war game or tabletop miniatures, but a visual representation of a fantasy narrative that takes place in a world based on the tropes and idioms of roll laying games?
Because this sort if speculation is ultimately pointless because of the above reasons. The actors in the Stickverse don't have agency. They're not sports players you can Monday-morning quarterback and explain how they could have won a game, if only.
This is a seven page thread dedicated to giving Jean Valjean advice about how he could have gotten away with stealing that loaf of bread without going to prison, despite the fact that going to prison was a neceassary catalyst for the story to progress as it did.Last edited by BenjCano; 2014-03-16 at 08:14 AM.
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2014-03-16, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2014-03-16, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- San Francisco
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
It's a seven page thread that treats the works as living and vibrant by suggesting that there were resources and alternate plans that could have led to a different story. It's a seven page thread that gives agency to the actions of individual characters like Miko, Hinjo, and Redcloak by directly attributing the success or failure of a massive undertaking to them.
To suggest that it's useless because this is the only story The Giant wanted to tell is, imo, insulting to the Giant. The thread exists because in telling the story, he did such a good job that we can clearly identify the major turning points and imagine how things might have been different. That's critical to the creation of a feeling of drama.
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2014-03-16, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
I say Jean Valjean's biggest mistake was trying to run. It clearly didn't work, and more than tripled his sentence. Also, why would he even need to steal? With his pipes, the dude could make enough cash to buy bread by singing in the street.
Also, people speculate because it's fun. Pointless, but fun.
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2014-03-16, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- Annapolis, Maryland
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Yes, if Chris hadn't been revenge obsessed against Carrie, that prom would have gone very differently and the book would have turned out differently, likely to the detriment of Stephen King's writing career.
But a more worthy question to debate is why did the Giant feel it necessary for Azure City to lose the war in the way it did? What was accomplished narratively that would have been lost if he'd had the characters act differently?
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2014-03-16, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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2014-03-16, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
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2014-03-16, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2014-03-16, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Annapolis, Maryland
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Can we avoid ad hominem attacks, please? K, thanks.
Look, I have no problem with imagining how a story could be different. But this thread seems to miss the point. How would the narrative if the comic be different if Azure City had won? That's a hundred times more interesting than the precise combination if tactics and unit deployment that would have made such a victory possible.Last edited by BenjCano; 2014-03-16 at 11:30 AM.
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2014-03-16, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- San Francisco
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Sure, if you'd like.
Yeah, likely any kind of vagrancy at the time would have gotten him arrested. Though singing on the streets would have been a much shorter sentence than theft.
The thread doesn't miss the point, you just want to talk about something different.
That said, the fall of Azure City has done at least 3 major things.
1. It made the world a lot darker, creating a very real sense of threat that wasn't present when all we had was Xykon hanging out in a dungeon.
2. It established that team evil is working on a level of power that should be getting worldwide notice and nobody is doing anything about it: don't expect any cavalry.
3. It plausibly allowed for team evil to stay put while other stories were being told. Since Roy's death, and despite the teleport to the pyramid, Xykon and Co have not done anything directed towards pursuing the gates.
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2014-03-16, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
{Scrubbed}
Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2014-03-16 at 06:50 PM.
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2014-03-16, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Sheriff: There's nothing wrong with this kind of speculation, but there are forum rules against, threadcrapping, vigilante modding, and flaming. Please keep it civil in this thread and drop the current line of discussion about whether this thread should exist.
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2014-03-16, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
The burst area of a fireball is specifically defined in 3.5. Hobgoblins can't (a) stack on top of each other or (b) fly, so it's one hob per square.
Now, if you use a mob of hobgoblins, you could cram more technical creatures into a 3x3 space - but that's DMG2 rules and not in SRD.
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2014-03-16, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Except the biggest reason Soon was a problem who nearly killed Xykon was because they didn't know about him. Also why they spent so long researching the next gate, which also turned out to be a problem.
The fight was looking pretty good for Azure at first even with Xykon among the enemies, but other unexpected powerful figures from both foes and traitors did turn the fight around quite a bit.Last edited by ericgrau; 2014-03-16 at 07:39 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2014-03-16, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- San Francisco
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
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2014-03-16, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- Beverly, MA, USA
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Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Normally I wouldn't get this technical, but since we're already in pretty technical territory...
a) Medium-sized creatures can share spaces with friendly creatures of similar size, so you could, theoretically, have more than one hobgoblin per square.
b) If there were, say, several vertical wooden floors stacked immediately above one another, with one hobgoblin on each floor, that could also lead to more hobgoblins within the blast radius.Last edited by Emanick; 2014-03-16 at 10:24 PM.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2014-03-16, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Ah but this is where it gets fun.
a) I don't think they can share spaces - I think they can squeeze past one another. But I haven't played 3.5 in a while. Certainly they can't fight normally sharing a square.
b) Wooden floors would block the expanding burst. We'd need to stack them on ladders, perhaps, or maybe hammocks. Someone check to see if the hobgoblins in the Death Knight's ramp are all dead.
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2014-03-17, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
That said, the fall of Azure City has done at least 3 major things.
1. It made the world a lot darker, creating a very real sense of threat that wasn't present when all we had was Xykon hanging out in a dungeon.
2. It established that team evil is working on a level of power that should be getting worldwide notice and nobody is doing anything about it: don't expect any cavalry.
3. It plausibly allowed for team evil to stay put while other stories were being told. Since Roy's death, and despite the teleport to the pyramid, Xykon and Co have not done anything directed towards pursuing the gates.
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2014-03-17, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Land of Ice and Snow
- Gender
Re: Did Azure city ever have a chance
Have a few arcane casters with wands of True Strike in the throne room, then have the paladins all charge Xykon with Lay on Hands.
Granted, the bouncy ball might have put a dent in that plan too.Last edited by Aasimar; 2014-03-17 at 10:25 AM.
Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you judge them, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes.
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2014-03-17, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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2014-03-19, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007