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2010-12-12, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
So how many bullets could a Jedi Master feasibly stop? Are we talking about first Matrix movie levels, where Neo manages to stop a couple rounds from hand guns, or Matrix Reloaded levels where he stops fire from several fully automatic weapons with ease.
I know that the more dakka principle seems to be at odds with the general heroic fantasy theme of the Star Wars universe, however a pair of heavy droid gunplatforms manage to make Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan run for it.
Edit: Wookiepedia calls them Droidekas, but makes no mention of their estimated rof.Last edited by Brother Oni; 2010-12-12 at 09:05 AM.
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2010-12-12, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Compared to the rank-and-file? Yes, they're rare. If you're up against a million troops, unless you specifically attack a Jedi stronghold, you're probably going to fight only around ten or so thousand Jedi.
If it's a Master? All of them. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan ran from the droidekas because it was more trouble than it was worth to stop the entire army of untiring droids on the ship, not because they couldn't deflect the droideka bolts quickly enough.
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2010-12-12, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
It depends on skill, but my guess? All of them, provided they're not coming from all directions. Still, he will eventually tire and fail to block in time.
I know that the more dakka principle seems to be at odds with the general heroic fantasy theme of the Star Wars universe, however a pair of heavy droid gunplatforms manage to make Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan run for it.
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2010-12-12, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Actually, In Battlefront II, Shotguns are one of the better ways to deal with the Computer controled jedi in the campaign, after dropping a mine or detpack in front of you and running before the idiot triggers it (To quote HK, Silly Jedi). In my experience, and maybe it's a bug on my computer, rockets don't work at all, as the jedi will deflect it back at you... WITH HIS LIGHTSABER!!!???
Which is yet another reason The Engineers are easily the best class.
As far as Jedi deflection goes, I imagine it's actually easier to block a scattershot coming from one direction than 2-3 shots from wildly different directions, since you can just pulse the entire scattershot outwards, while the individual bullets, all coming from different angles, have a better chance of overwhelming an apprentice. Furthermore, a Jedi can block projectile weapons with his lightsaber, but he has to be careful that he fully vaporizes the bullet, as opposed to just turning it to slag. Still, you won't have the bullet coming back at you, at least.Last edited by Squark; 2010-12-12 at 07:18 PM.
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2010-12-13, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 30SpoilerHaving dispatched the selkath that had lay in wait outside the airlock, Ni proceeded deeper into the Hrakert Rift station.
Ni: "Carth, looks like we have more survivors. They've activated the security fields - still look a bit nervous. Going to try to talk to them."
Onasi: "Be careful. They've probably had a few tense days."
Onasi records that the next half minute was broken only by an enormous sucking noise and the frantic tic tic of keypad use.
When he heard Ni heave a sigh of relief, he took that as a sign that the crisis had passed.
Ni: "Tense."
Onasi: "Alright, maybe they're just a little bit psychopathic. What did you do?"
Ni: "Sliced into the nearby console. Shut down their access and the security field. I'm going to resist doing them injury now."
Ni: "Stop screaming!"
The sheer volume of the statement apparently caused some problems for Onasi, who had to re-adjest his comlink. When he managed to get it functional again, the man was speaking. In the interm period, Ni had identified the man was head scientist Kono Nolan, and the woman as named Sami. Republic records are non-existant for either of them, leading us to believe that the records have been excised. Research is on-going, but it is believed that this lapse of records was a deliberate action by the Republic, a symptom of the corruption that had resulted from the galactic conflict.
Nolan: "We had a few people outside the station when it happened..."
Sami: "The... firaxan sharks just tore them apart... it was like they were frenzied..."
Nolan: "The next thing we knew our selkath researchers started screaming and... and clawing at everything around them. My team... my team was torn apart and eaten before my eyes! Sami and me... I... I thought we were the only ones left. We heard the selkath outside at the doors every once in a while... and those strange noises echoing through the base."
Ni: "What happened?"
Sami: "We don't know! Not for sure..."
Nolan: "It was a firaxa shark I think... bigger than any I'd every seen before. Bigger than our submersibles."
Sami: "It was like it was screaming inside my head..."
Nolan: "Then all the selkath started screaming too... and they turned on us."
Ni: "Carth, we've got a cause. Talk to HK if he's back. Ask him about Force-sensitive firaxan sharks, or selkath legends that could fit that descriptor. Kono, Sami, is there anything more you can tell me about the firaxa? Was it protecting something, like the ruins down here?"
Nolan: "How did you -"
Ni: "Just answer the question."
Nolan: "It could have been . It might have a lair in the Hrakert Rift near the kolto vent. Hmm... that may explain a few things, too..."
Ni: "Such as?"
Nolan: "Like why it reached so violently when our construction efforts got closer to the vent. And also why it is so large. It must be feeding off the kolto. It would have to be ancient indeed for it to reach that size. But with kolto as a food source..."
Ni would later share a different conclusion when she related the events to Shan. She theorized that, like the enormous bull krayt dragon, the presence of the Star Map and its accompanying nexus and dark side energy had accelerated the growth of the firaxa. Shan agreed in principle, but cautioned Ni not to jump to conclusions. There were still two more Star Maps to discover. If they too displayed aberrant physical growth, then Ni's theory would have credence.
As historians, we have an even broader perspective than Ni and Shan, and can state that to the best of our knowledge, it does seem as thouh Ni's theory is broadly correct. Where the Jedi Order has deigned to inform the public at large of dark side nexi, there does seem to be living organisms of unnatural size. To use an obscure example, the planet Dagobah is known for the breadth of its swamps and is identified as a locale of powerful dark side energy in the Jedi Archives.
Sami: "All those other firaxan sharks! Those might be its offspring!"
Nolan: "Which would be why they all swarmed when it called out to them... Children coming to protect their mother."
Again, Ni provides an alternate theory in her discussions with Bastila. She believed that the huge firaxa was an instinctual Force adept, and was compelling other firaxa to defend it. The sheer power of the creature created a bleed-over of Force energy, and that was what drove the selkath insane, as they were of a similar mental physiology to the firaxa.
At this time, HK-47 returned from his sweep of the compound. Onasi queried him with Ni's questions, but the droid was unable to supply anything beyond the most rudimentary of creation stories: that the selkath, and indeed all life on Manaan, had been spawned from a singular creature.
HK-47: "Conclusion: Such stories are, to say the least, improbable. Will that be all, meatbag?"
Onasi: "Yeah, yeah, you bucket of bolts. Jan?"
Ni: "Back in the airlock. They got a little unstable again, so I, uh, sedated them."
Onasi: "You didn't."
Ni: "I keep telling everyone: what's the point of a stun setting you don't use?"
Onasi: "Jan -"
Ni: "Alright, the problem is that the giant firaxa is more or less actively patrolling the rift itself. And the ruins, and the Star Map, are on the other side of the rift. So here's the deal: I have to get to the Star Map, and somehow I don't think years of training is going to help me hide in my bright yellow envirosuit. Especially because I get this nagging feeling that it can see my mind."
Onasi: "So what are our options?"
Ni: "That was what sent them into fits. They saw two options. The station has been dealing with near-constant firaxa attacks, so they were trying to develop some kind of repellant."
Onasi: "I guess if the kolto synthesizing wasn't working out, they needed something else to occupy their time."
Ni: "The problem is, they hadn't finished, and the product they have now exploits pressure differentials or somesuch science, and pretty much makes them explode into clouds of goop. HK would probably love it."
HK-47: "Affirmation: It does sound lovely, master."
Ni: "Right, forgot you had a built-in comlink. Have you been listening this entire time?"
HK-47: "Negatory: Master, I have been hunting down the last of the selkath. I could hardly have done that with meatbags blaring in my aural receptors, could I?"
Onasi: "Moving on."
Ni: "Right. So they've got enough 'repellant' to fill a fairly large canister. Kono had gathered it all together, and was planning to use the kolto harvester to vent it into the surrounding ocean."
HK-47: "Warning: Though I would like to see this compound in action, my programming tells me that this would be both grossly inefficient and a dreadful breach of protocol."
Onasi: "So what's the alternative?"
Ni: "Sami said that the firaxa had been displaying territorial characteristics towards the harvesting machine - apparently she's their ecology expert. She thought that if the harvesting machine was destroyed, the firaxa would subside. Sami said that the hydrolium fuel they use could be pressurized to a liquid state, at which point it should spontaneously detonate."
Onasi: "And an explosion is supposed to calm this thing down? Somehow I doubt that. Besides, it would mean losing the extra kolto from this facility, and the Republic is in dire enough straits as is."
HK-47: "Debate: The alternative is to endanger the kolto supply as a whole. We do not know how this compound would react with the environment at large, or even if it will prove effective when diluted."
Ni: "Well, like I said, I don't think sneaking is an option, and my lightsaber isn't designed to work underwater. And blaster bolts would probably lose cohesion at this depth."
Onasi: "So what do we do?"
VotingSpoilerSo what does Jan do, ladies and gentlemen?
1) Chemical warfare, which may not even work. And if it does work, it may have unexpected consequences like poisoning the kolto.
2) Destroying the Republic's harvesting capabilities, which at the very least will cost the Republic thousands of lives. And may not ever work.
3) Jan tries something clever. (Taking suggestions on what said clever action would be, of course).
Voting is open until Wednesday, up until whenever I start up the next chapter.
CommentarySpoilerAgain, I'm liberally editing this. In case Jan had completely forgotten why the station was here in the first place, she could ask that. But my time and patience, and I'm sure yours, is finite, so snip snip. Again, if there are any requests for specific sidequests, or questions, in-universe or gameplay-wise, ask away.
Mostly random side note here: Kono Nolan is voiced by Cam Clarke. Among other things, he's Leonardo from TMNT, He-Man, Toph's father, Sky in Jade Empire, Kaneda from Akira, and the role I know him best as, Aran Linvail in Baldur's Gate 2. Actually, let's make this not completely random. The part where this is a screenshot Let's Play means that you're not getting the voice acting, most of which is actually pretty darn good. So let's give credit where it's due, and maybe inspire the voices in your head to read lines somewhat differently.
Bastila Shan: voiced by Jennifer Hale: Female Shepard (Mass Effect), Mazzy Fentan (Baldur's Gate 2), Aayla Secura (numerous recent Star Wars media), Samus Aran, Prier(e) (La Pucelle), and in something I didn't even know until I looked it up, Dynaheir (Baldur's Gate). I think calling her fan base rabid is maybe a bit of an understatement.
Carth Onasi: voiced by Raphael Sbarge: Kaiden (Mass Effect), a whole bunch of TV roles, and a semi-recurring role on Star TRek: Voyager. Notice how Bioware has this tendancy to re-use voice actors?
Canderous Ordo: voiced by John Cygan, who also turns up, strangely enough, as Dash Rendar from Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire.
HK-47: voiced by Kristoffer Tabori. In a continued trend of characters voicing strangely similar, but completely different characters: provides the voice of rogue rebel commander Garm bel Iblis.
Juhani: voiced by Courtenay Taylor. Voices a whole slew of characters in Troika's Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines, as well as Jack (Mass Effect). Strangely for me, her voice is very non-descript - her voicework has absolutely nothing to do with why I like (ah, Damsel), or dislike the character (Juhani).
Mission Vao: voiced by Catherine Taber. Also does Padme in the recent Clone Wars TV show. Appropriately enough, she also does voicework for Leia in the Force Unleashed.
Master Vrook Lamarr: voiced by Edward Asner, of all people. He also did Carl Fredrickson (Up), Hudson (Gargoyles) and has TV credits stretching all the way back to 1957. Somewhat distressingly, he's also the voice of Granny Goodness in the DCU.
Finally, we haven't seen the character he voices yet, but Kevin Michael Richardson will be performing as our last party member in his characteristic deep and moderately terrifying voice. He's the Almighty Jabba in the Clone Wars series, which is a heck of a reversal. Also the Joker (the Batman), making him a very strange parallel to Mark Hamill. Has done Mace Windu at least once. But to me, he'll always be Sarevok Anchev (Baldur's Gate), which is why he's so especially terrifying. "Why is the Avatar getting helped by Sarevok? They're all going to die!"
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler
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2010-12-13, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Commune with the Firaxan Broodmother, because maybe it's Force Fishy Warcries will be interesting.
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2010-12-13, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Wait, you've got HK voting against
poisoning the water holecausingwanton slaughterthe loss of the entirety of the kolto supply? Did Carth go installing an aftermarket modification when I wasn't looking? Did it affect HK's assassination protocols?
-"Answer: Assassination protocols? As in the premeditated killing of another for personal or economic gain? Surely master is joking with his humble, peace-loving droid. I exist only to serve and learn how to serve meatbags."
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2010-12-14, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
I guess I've picked up more from KotOR 2 than I thought. An assassin droid that wantonly murders is an assassin droid that gets dismantled. Consider his own reasoning for not picking up a war droid: finesse. Chemical attacks, while amusing, are not typically very precise. Or at least that was my (apparent) line of thinking. I think. Maybe. That enough temporizing for you?
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2010-12-14, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
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2010-12-14, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
That does sound a little more like a reasoning KOTOR2's HK would come up with
A viking who isn't intimidated!!
Dreaming of a wight apocalypse
"next time you decide to stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face!"
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2010-12-14, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Also, more kolto means more meatbags for HK-47 to shoot.
I vote for knocking out the base, it seems more in line with Jan's reason.Steam ID: The Great Squark
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2010-12-14, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Couldn't HK rig up the canister with a remote detonator, get fishy to eat it, then activate it, giving you a precisely delivered chemical attack.
Alternately, he could do a Jaws, then sharpshoot the canister while it's still in the critter's mouth (they must have spearguns or something similar to chase off the smaller sharks).
Either way, he kills two birds with one stone - the shark is dead and HK gets to see it pop spectacularly.
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2010-12-15, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Except HK can't get that close (he's obviously not built for walking on the depths of the ocean), so he wouldn't get to see the exploding shark.
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2010-12-15, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
I vote no to the poisoning... poison is just too messy.
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2010-12-15, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 31Spoiler
We return to the Hrakert Rift Station on Manaan, where Ni, Onasi, and HK-47 have just concluded their discussion on how to deal with the enormous firaxa shark.
Ni: "I can't believe I'm doing this. ... Here, fishie, fishie, fish...."
Our details of the encounter come from Ni's later discussion with Shan. Shan's initial impulse was to describe what Ni had done as a form of animal friendship, an ability practiced by many Force adepts through the millenia. Many Jedi manifest an instinctual use of this ability, creating the general impression that Jedi are good with animals. It is theorized by many Jedi historians, including the present chief librarian Jocasta Nu, that the Beast Riders of Onderon unconsciously developed this ability, aided by the ambient dark side energy present on the planet. But when Shan explained the ability:
Shan: "Animal friendship is reliant on the Oneness of the Force. The Jedi uses that oneness with the animal to create a temporary force bond, to both raise the animal's consciousness and lower the Jedi's to the same level. In a sense, you adopt some of the animal's way of thinking, and it gains some of yours."
Ni: "But it wasn't like that. That was what the selkath had tried to do, when the firaxa got angry in the first place. But the firaxa was so overwhelming, its sense of self was so strong, that the selkath got absorbed. I didn't want to risk that. So -"
Shan: "So you decided to face it head on? I do not think that was any wiser."
Ni: "Oh, let me tell the story, already. I made myself a target, and it came at me, physically and mentally."
Ni: "I, uh, gracefully avoided its physical assault."
Onasi: "Fell flat on your face, you mean. I saw it all on the holorecorders."
Ni: "Shush, you! But I did essentially the same thing mentally. I made my mind, for lack of a better word, slippery. And then I hit it in the back. The hind-brain, I suppose. I guess it was so used to being able to overwhelm anything that it never learned how to defend itself."
Shan: "And then?"
Onasi: "Any chance we can get the Star Forge's location from just these three?"
Ni: "I've set T3 on it, but they're all corrupted in very different places. I don't expect anything."
Shan: "But how did you get back to the surface? And does it have anything do with why you told us to 'drop everything and get to the ship,' followed by a very hasty departure into hyperspace?"
Ni: "Yeah, about that... We're kind of fleeing selkath custody."
Ahto City Civil Authority: "You have been observed taking a submersible down to the Hrakert Rift - a forbidden sector!"
Ni: "And I looked ahead, and saw an awful lot of explaining, and we're sort of on a time limit here - besides, there's no reason to help the Crusader bounty hunters by staying in one place for too long."
Shan: "So you decided it would be better to cause a diplomatic incident?!"
Ni: "Yeah. Turns out that the Crusaders weren't the only ones planning a coup - the Republic is doing one of their own, and Wann is using our escapades in the embassy as the flashpoint. He, uh, recommended that the Jedi Order not have a presence in the coup."
Shan: "Carth, you're supporting this?"
Onasi: "Look, I don't like it, but it's better than what the Sith did to Taris. Once Saul and Malak are gone, we can deal with the corruption inside the Republic. That's why Wann didn't want the Jedi involved - their integrity won't be compromised."
Shan: "... fine. But the Jedi Council will hear of this."
Ni: "If the two of you want to argue about it, could you do it somewhere other than the bunkroom? I've been running non-stop for a few days now."
Onasi: "Will do. Maybe Zaalbar will open up enough for a game of dejarik. I'll let you know when we dock with Yavin Station."
During the trip, Ni found time to perform further maintainence on HK-47.
HK-47: "...and now re-wire the last three relays... yes, good. Well done, master. I believe your operation was a success. Accessing new memory... Acess complete: I have recovered information on my owner previous to the commercial officer, master. Intriguing."
Ni: "Seems like you've been around, HK."
HK-47: "Observation: It does seem that way, does it not? I can still remember all the glittering lights of Coruscant. Very pretty. Can we go back there, master?"
Ni: "Only after this situation is resolved. I think Malak has most of the routes interdicted."
HK-47: "Statement: I do remember that I was very pleased to be the property of a senator. One of his assistants descovered my assassination functions later through questioning."
Ni: "So we're not talking about a nice senator, then."
HK-47: "Observation: Senators are not nice, master. They are either on top of the game or yesterday's news. My master told me that frequently, you see. I was most proud to have partaken in the political system of the galaxy. During the time my owner possessed me, he gained significant rank."
Ni: "And no one noticed all of this?"
HK-47: "Answer: There are a lot of politicians on Coruscant, master. I could spent decades slaughtering them and still not make a dent. And it is not as if I walked into the Senate chambers with a carbonite explosive. I was very discrete. My best work to date... that I can remember."
We would like to take this moment to assure our audience that HK-47's statement about a ccarbonite explosive is verifiable historical fact, and not a commentary on the recent attempted bombing.
HK-47: "Observation: I think he would have done far better had he not allowed his use of me to become personal. He set me on his wife."
Ni: "Why?"
HK-47: "I was to go to their summer estate and terminate his wife... along with whatever male companion I discovered there."
Ni: "Should've guess it. She was cheating on him."
HK-47: "Statement: I have no idea, master. Cheating seems to be a relevant terms only when one is caught in the act. Otherwise it is viewed as intelligence, no?"
Ni: "Regardless, go on."
HK-47: "Statement: I journeyed to the southern continent, but it appeared my master was not far behind me. Apparently he regretted his activation of the protocol. When I found the wife and her companion, I proceeded to launch my attack... but my master interposed his own body and was destroyed. It was a rather strange meatbag thing to do, do you not agree? Naturally I shut myself down, my master being terminated."
Ni: "Seems as if he got a conscience in the end."
Ni: "So then what?"
HK-47: "Statement: I believe the senator's wife was unsure what I was or what to do with me. It was she who sold me to the corporate officer, an acquaintance."
Ni: "Well, that's two out two masters killed."
HK-47: "Observation: Only so far, master. There are still more memories not recovered, remember?"
Ni: "Speaking of, has your functionality improved?"
HK-47: "Answer: As previously, I have found a few more programs which will enhance my performance. A most gratifying discovery, in fact."
CommentarySpoilerHave I mentioned that the court sections on Manaan are completely pointless? Not to mention arbitrary - the selkath originally call you in on 'why is there poison in the water?' or 'what were those explosions down at the Rift?' But the Republic has sent at least two, maybe three submersibles full of soldiers or mercenaries down there, to no reaction.
In any case, mucking about with the fishies has given us a level:
We're pretty serious bad-asses: the only time we have trouble is when the opponent is throwing around high DC status effects. This is d20-based, after all. Pure direct damage just isn't that efficient, and we've got lots of medpacks (and Force Healing) to counter their effects. The last time that damage alone was problematic was back in with Davik Kang and Calo Nord, with them dual-wielding and using Power-Shot.
One of my complaints with the system is that it creates a lot of very similar-feeling fights. Options:
1) They're a monster, and they close to rip and tear. It's odd, but I can't remember any of the monsters having any abilities other than poison or Force Resistance. Nothing knocks you over, stuns you, causes fear, etc.
2) They're a ranged attacker, and might throw grenades. Which, because of the timing, won't hit you if you're moving towards them. Essentiallly, you close with one opponent, and they'll throw grenades while you tangle in melee.
3) They're a Jedi, or one of the rare war droids with carbonite/flame launchers. But they're either mooks, and so don't do anything besides create interesting FX or catch someone who bombs a save, or bosses, which means their abilities are a bit too likely to work.
This isn't really an argument against the game, but against the game system. Without cool monster abilities, and with no obvious caster/warrior divide, and the game engine limiting your terrain choices, how do you make interesting encounters?
Add in the part where grenades become annoyances around level 12 (except the insanely expensive thermal detonators), and most of the options are in leveling and equipping, and when to use items. And there are a fairly limited, non-randomized selection of items, and ranged combat and single-saber aren't very good. Maybe I shouldn't play Jedi Academy and KotOR in the same week...
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler
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2010-12-15, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
This might be the best screenshot yet
Spoiler
this is just too richYou got Magic Mech in My Police Procedural!
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2010-12-16, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
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2010-12-17, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 32SpoilerThe Ebon Hawk has completed docking with Suvam Tan's Yavin station. Ni, Shan and Ordo disembark; Shan to make sure Ni doesn't spend hours play pazaak, and Ordo because he wanted to inspect Tan's weaponry personally. But Tan apparently already had company.
Tan: "What? You can't just rewrite our agreement whenever you feel like it! The Excchange won't stand for it!"
Trandoshan: "The Exchange is in no position to dictate orders anymore, Suvam... Who's that? A stranger... You haven't been telling us everything, now have you, Suvam?"
Tan: "Tell you everything? What are you talking about? I don't have to clear everything through you!"
Trandoshan: "We'll be back, Suvam!"
The trandoshans leave Tan's workshop.
Ni: "Canderous, give Carth a buzz. Tell him to have the autoblaster warmed up, just in case."
Tan: "Thank you for helping, but... I really don't think you should have provoked them like that. They can be... impulsive, sometimes."
Ni: "What'd they want?"
Tan: "They want me to give them more of my inventions... stuff that I haven;t even finished working on yet! Ever since Davik went down, the Exchange has been a non-facotr in these parts. The trandoshans are trying to muscle in on all the old Exchange businesses now. Maybe I can still work something out with them... Thank you for being here, though. It might have gone less... pleasantly if you hadn't shown up."
While Shan and Ordo looked over Tan's inventions - Shan trying to sense dark side energies, and Ordo itching to test fire them - Ni took Tan aside. We don't have the particulars of the conversation, but the broad strokes of the argument were revealed later, back on the Ebon Hawk.
Ni gathered everyone in the lounge.
Ni: "Alright, people. I've been pushing you fairly hard for the last week or two. You need a break, so I'm handing the ship over to Carth for five - no, make it a week. That should be enough time to make it to somewhere fun - Zeltros, Nar Shaddaa, Alderaan - and enjoy yourself for a few days before meeting me back here."
Onasi: "Nar Shaddaa is fun? If you want to get knifed, maybe."
Shan: "Are you sure this is a good idea? Malak and his fleet -"
Ni: "Are consolidating their gains around Taris. Word is that Malak himself is on some rock named Dathomir, or something like that. You take the Gordian Reach to the Perlemian Trade Route, and most of the galaxy is open. And there's no point in fighting when we're in anything but top shape."
Vao: "What are you going to do, Jan?"
Ni: "Suvam is loaning me his ship. It's a fast little thing - I should be able to get to Dantooine and deliver a package. You had reports you wanted to send to the Jedi Council, Bastila?"
Shan: "I do, but -"
Ni: "You guys are great, but I haven't had a moment to myself since the Endar Spire went down. I get my alone-time, you guys get time without me giving you orders."
Shan: "Very well. Come with me, and I'll get you those reports."
In the Ebon Hawk's cockpit:
Ni: "Go ahead and ask your question."
Ni: "No, some things I won't share. Get one of your own."
Shan: "Excuse me?"
Ni: "Uhh, nevermind. Go ahead?"
Shan: "In our time together I've been watching you. You are a true servant of the light, you follow the tenets of the Jedi Order despite the lure of the dark side. And with so little training."
Ni: "It's a struggle for me, sometimes."
Shan: "That's a relief to hear. I have never found the Jedi path an easy one to walk, and it's good to know I'm not alone."
Shan: "I've often dreamed that I might be able to confront Darth Malak myself. I dream I can use all this power I have to kill him and stop all the death and destruction. I just think about all the evil that the Sith have caused and I... I get so furious. Yet we are told that these feelings are the path to the dark side."
Ni: "Look, Bastila, I only know about three ways of coping with everything I have to do. You make yourself not care, treat them just as faceless threats. And that turns you into a monster. Or you care too much, realize that all these people we're killing have families. And that makes you helpless. Or you try to do both, and go crazy like every good soldier. We're doing something that needs to be done."
Shan: "But part of me thinks that it would be worth anything to vanquish evil, even if it meant giving in to my base emotions. The very thought that I could become as evil as Malak; I just can't fathom it. It just doesn't seem possible. How could I... no, wait. I'm sorry."
Ni: "What for?"
Ni: "Bastila -"
Shan: "These are dangerous thoughts, the indulgences of a vain mind. Please, forget I ever mentioned this. Please convey these reports to the Jedi Council."
Ni: "Just do me a favor: let your hair down wherever Carth takes you. Forget about the war, forget that you're a Jedi. Just try to enjoy yourself."
Shan: "I...I'll try."
Within the hour, the Ebon Hawk lifted off from Yavin Station, accompanied by a sleek one-seated craft.
Ni: "Carth, keep Mission out of trouble. And keep Canderous from starting another Jedi Crusade."
Onasi: "Hey, I out-rank you! Why have I been taking orders since Taris?"
Ni: "Because it was either me or Bastila, and I'm more reasonable."
Shan: "Jan, I'm sitting right here."
Ni: "Right, forgot you're co-pilot. Ummm, look at that, there's my hyperspace vector! See you guys in a week."
CommentarySpoilerSo Jan's technically light-sided (around 54-60, where 100 is pure Light Side and 1 is pure Dark Side), but Bastila's making it out like she's a shining beacon of goodness. KotOR doesn't really have a neutral option. They expect - and mechanically encourage - to commit to an extreme. But Jan isn't really one to go out of her way to pet/smush small cute animals, her irrational love of gizka aside. That, and a neutral alignment means that you guys are free to consider your votes without bias to either side.
Oh, and just to clear something up, I'm not going on hiatus. The crew is (and I'm taking recommendations and what kind of wackiness they get up to), but I'm not. I should be churning this out all through the holidays.
Other than that, we're getting fairly close to the endgame here, at least in terms of dialogue trees. So we're finally gettting to see for ourselves how truly screwed up Bastila is. I'm not taking lines out of context and stringing them together here. She reveals that she has doubts, and then uses her training as an excuse to shove those doubts away without answering them. Folks go on about how Carth is this horribly broken human being because of his trust issues (and we'll deal with that later), but no one seems to talk about how equally messed up Bastila is. I mean, she's not as transparently broken as say, Aerie,
Aerie explanation/semi-spoilers for folks who haven't played Baldur's Gate 2SpoilerAerie, like Carth and Bastila, is a romance option. Technically, she's an avariel (winged elf). But because she tried to save a kid from slavers, she wound up stuffed into a tiny cage and sold to a circus. The aforementioned tiny cage caused an infection in her wings, at which point her captors cut them off. Without anesthetic or magical healing. The trope Broken Bird (TV Tropes warning) is apt in name only. The Woobie is probably more accurate, especially considering the fandom is split on whether Aerie needs a hug or a stab. Of the official BG2 female romance options, she's the Maiden (Jaheira's the Mother, and Viconia's the... other one). She will also shatter if you raise your voice at her.
but Bastila is not exactly stable. No, that's wrong. She's very stable, but she's also very brittle. But it's not her outer nature that's brittle - it's when she starts questioning herself that everything can just fall apart.
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:SpoilerLast edited by Tam_OConnor; 2010-12-17 at 06:11 PM.
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2010-12-17, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-17, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
...noooo, but it is a very Freudian mistake (that I am fixing for clarity, and not the lulz).
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2010-12-17, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
You're very correct in pointing out Bastila's brittleness, though I never really thought about it that way before. Carth's lack of trust in other people just seems a lot more obvious than Bastila's lack of trust in herself.
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2010-12-20, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 33SpoilerWe return again to our confidential source. Ni landed on the surface of Dantooine, delivered Shan's missives to the Jedi Council, and was dismissed without comment. By some uncanny means - perhaps use of the Force, perhaps by more conventional means, she tracked down a speeder registered to one Zuulan Sentar. Sentar was a Gran slaver, kidnapper and blackmailer.
Ni removed herself to a location within earshot, and waited. Presently, Sentar returned. Activating his speeder, he triggered the baradium charge that Ni had set, destroying the speeder and everything else within a five meter radius. Her mission complete, Ni returned to her borrowed ship, and set a course for Manaan.
Arkos Sakith, a Zeltron entertainer, wrote eloquently on the transition from tense neutrality to the subtly different tension that arrives in the aftermath of a coup. His complete memoirs have recently become available to the public, and so we will limit ourselves to a brief excerpt.
Sakith: "In spite of all the charges that the new Republic-supported government had made, there were still little details that were jarring - differences between the primary and the understudy. One incident stands out in my mind - not because it was unusual, but because it was such an iconic scene. From a staging perspective, it was without par.
Sakith: "A Rodian in a spacer's outfit stood with his back to the ocean, his eyes on the moving crowds. He would stand there for hours at a time - practically a piece of the scenery. As I was sitting and taking in the Manaan sunshine, he was approached by a woman.
Sakith: "This woman - when I was a student, I would have said she moved like a dancer. Older, and perhaps a little wiser, I could have corrected my younger self. Dancers move with grace and control, but their movements are designed to be very expressive. The goal of a dancer is to communication, to share the beauty of movement with the audience. This woman was a cipher. Each step flowed into the next, but following the fluidity of motion made me aware that I had no idea where the next step would fall. It may sound overly dramatic, but this woman was killer. Not obviously, but to eyes like mine - I've seen tens of thousands of soldiers, bounty hunters, Jedi, crime lords - I've seen the type.
Sakith: "And then, this constant observer and this trained killer stopped and spoke with one another. I carefully kept my face neutral. The way they stood, I couldn't read their lips. The tones in which they spoke didn't carry. I knew that I didn't want to overhear. But this meeting, the very casual nature of it, profoundly unnerved me."
Sakith soon turns to other subjects. And similarly, we turn to our confidential source for the details of the metting of Hulas and Ni.
Ni: "Sentar and Lorgal are dead."
Hulas: "Yes, Jan Ni, I am aware of this. Our agents have been keeping a close eye on you, though I doubt you saw them. They were there when your targets met their untimely ends. And as promised here are your rewards for the task: a blaster developed exclusively for the use of those within our guild, and a vibroblade to match. They will serve you well, I am sure."
Hulas: "There are three targets that the Genoharadan want you to remove. If you can eliminate all three, then you will gain full membership in our ancient guild. The first is a gammorean named Vorn Daasraad. The second is a shapeshifter called Rulan Prolik. The third is a selkath known as Ithorak Guldar."
Ni: "Tell me about Vorn Daasraad."
Hulas: "The Genoharadan will tolerate a certain amount of competition, but Vorn has become too dangerous. You'd be surprised at how much political damage one rogue assassin can inflict. Vorn was last seen on Tatooine. We suspect he's taking a break from hunting sentients by going after a krayt dragon. We don't want him to leave the Dune Sea alive. Just be careful when you face off against him. Vorn doesn't travel alone: he's always got his assault droid close at hand. The two of them make a formidable pair."
Ni: "Details on Rulan Prolik?"
Hulas: "But we suspect he's behind several prominent assassinations on the Outer Rim. The Genoharadan are worried he might decide to move his operations closer to the galactic core. With his ability to assume virtually any form, he could wreak havoc in the Galactic Senate. We aren't about to let that happen."
Ni: "Any idea on where to start looking for someone who could look like anyone?"
Ni: "And Ithorak Guldar?"
Hulas: "Ithorak isn't violent like Rulan or Vorn, but in many ways he's far more dangerous. He's a con artist and blackmailer who's taken millions of credits from rich and powerful families."
Hulas: "All we know is how to contact him. There's a twi'lek named Vek at the Ahto City swoop track. He can set up a meeting between you and Ithorak."
Ni: "Why would Vek set up a meeting between us?"
Hulas: "Ithorak poses as a merchant of rare antiquities. It's the perfect cover for his real work - it gives him access to rich and powerful families without drawing suspicion. You'll have to convince Vek that you represent a buyer interested in purchasing some rare art from Ithorak. Convince Vek, and he'll set up a meeting. The meeting will be your one chance to take Ithorak out, but be careful. He'll choose the time and place, and he's not going to leave himself vulnerable."
Ni: "Anything else I should know?"
Hulas: "Just a warning, Jan Ni. The assignments I have just given you are far more difficult than the simple bounties I gave you as your first test."
At the Ahto City swoop track, Ni made contact with Vek.
Ni: "You want to set a meeting between me and your boss."
Vek: "I... I want to set up a meeting between you and my boss. Meet me at docking bay three tomorrow, at 1800 hours."
The next day, at the entrance to docking bay three, 1800 Galactic standard time:
Vek: "However, before we go in I'll point out this rather large assault droid standing beside me. I and the droid will both accompany you in to see Ithorak, just to make sure there is no trouble."
Ni: "My business with Ithorak is confidential."
Vek: "Ithorak is an important man with access to the rich and powerful. He is not about to let himself become an easy target for a kidnapping or an assassination. When you meet Ithorak, I and the droid will both be there. It is my job to protect my employer, and I intend to do that regardless of my personal feelings toward him."
Ni: "So you don't care for him?"
Vek: "But despite all Ithorak's faults, he does pay well. So I serve my employer faithfully, for now."
Ni: "You should quit on him right now. Leave and find another job."
Vek: "You're.. you're right. He's never treated me with the respect I deserve. Yelling at me, insulting me, belittling me. I don't know why I stayed with him as long as I did!
Vek: "Whatever your plan for Ithorak is, be careful. I've always suspected he was more than just a simple merchant. I've heard people who cross him are rarely heard from again. I don't want to risk his vengeance, so I'm going to disappear for a long while. Just in case Ithorak gets the better of you in this, you understand. Goodbye, human... and good luck."
Ni stepped inside the hanger bay. Guldar immediately realized something was amiss.
Guldar: "Vek's going to pay for this betrayal... after I'm done taking care of you!"
But for all his bravado, Guldar was only an unarmed selkath, facing down the lightsaber and vibroblade of a very dangerous woman. The outcome was inevitable.
Ni: "I have some questions about the Genoharadan."
Hulas: "You must understand that there is much I cannot tell you until you are accepted into the guild, of course. But ask your questions and I will tell you what I can."
Ni: "Who formed this guild? And where did it begin?"
Hulas: "During Xim's short but brutal reign he used Genoharadan agents to eliminate his most powerful enemies. When Xim was finally overthrown, it was believed the Geonharadan disbanded. But the Genoharadan did not disband. Instead, we vanished into the darkness. In the first few centuries after Xim was overthrown, the Genoharadan were nothing but hired killers. We were a mere tool to be used by those who were rich and politically ambitious."
Hulas: "The organization of the guild itself also changed at this point. Instead of a single guildmaster, it was decided there would be four Overseers to guide and lead the Genoharadan. By distributing the power in this way we were protected against becoming a tool of a single person. The Overseers' individual ambitions would serve to balance each other out."
Ni: "Tell me about the Overseers."
Hulas: "I'm sorry, Jan Ni, but I am not ready to reveal all our secrets to you yet. Perhaps after you have completed another of your missions I will tell you more of this."
Ni: "Why haven't the Genoharadan assassinated Malak? He's causing at least as much havoc as the Mandolorians did. Don't you want to keep the Republic intact?"
Hulas: "In any case, there is no guarantee that the Genoharadan would eliminate Malak even if we could. Not yet. He may someday be of use to us, depending how events play out."
Hulas: "We have found it more effective to let the grand scope of events play themselves out, then manipulate the situation to our advantage. It is one of the keys to keeping our existence well hidden."
Ni: "Does the Jedi Order know about your guild?"
Hulas: "Some of the wise masters have knowledge of our existence. Those who study galactic history carefully will see evidence of our influence throughout. But it is unlikely that even the Jedi know the true scope of our power and influence. They permit us to exist because they see us as a minor faction in the galaxy: one of many."
Boarding her borrowed ship, Ni returned to Yavin Station, just preceeding the arrival of the Ebon Hawk.
CommentarySpoilerOnce again, I'm taking suggestions on where the crew ent, and what kind of trouble (if any) they got up to.
So that's the bulk of the explanation we're going to get on the Genoharadan. It seems like a shame to me that Bioware's major contribution to the setting so far is just so painfully generic. THough perhaps that's the wrong way to look at it. I've heard KotOR variously described as 'the best Star Wars game,' and 'more like Star Wars than the movies.' And Star Wars itself is fundamentally a pulp story. One that's very formulaic, but enjoys the formula, unlike the usual Hollywood summer films. From that perspective, the inclusion of an ancient conspiracy of meddlers is very appropriate. And I'm practically showing you more of the Genoharadan than of the main quest, so obviously I enjoy it greatly.
Why it can be a better Star Wars story than the original movies, then? Fundamentally, it's because every playthrough can take on the aspects of a different pulp story. As the player-created character, you can follow Luke (pure Light-sided), Han (some morally questionable acts, but ending Light-sided) or as an villan-protagonist, which is something the original movies didn't present. The prequel trilogy arguably tried to make Anakin into a villain-protagonist, but they're more about his becoming a villain, with him as the protagonist. KotOR actually gives you the opportunity to be a complete monster, without asking you why you're so horrid.
That's the one angle Bioware didn't really cover well: the insidious evil. You can take all sorts of short-term benefit actions to your benefit, but in terms of longer-term schemes, theoptions are somewhat lacking. But that itself is more of a symptom of the reactive nature of protagonists, not really a failure on Bioware's part. They could have done it better, but if they had we might have been left with something looking more like KotOR 2.
Most of the Genoharadan gear is pretty good. The blaster is accurate but not terribly damaging, and is certainly the weakest item of the set. The gauntlets give +4 Strength, so they go straight on Canderous, and won't come off. The vibroblade is pretty good, with a chance to poison the opponent, and Jan'll be using it for a while. Actually, that's something I haven't touched on yet. Why is Jan using a lightsaber and a vibroblade in combination? Why not two lightsabers, or a double-bladed lightsaber like Bastila? (Single saber is pretty terrible, and the only ones who should be using it are Consulers, who just destroy things with Force powers instead).
From a visual standpoint, it's distinctive. I can't think of a single character who uses lightsaber and vibroblade in combination. As we'll find in the endgame, vibroblades can do some truly impressive damage if you have the right ones. In fact, I remember sitting back in my chair, flabbergasted that my vibroblade was doing more damage than my lightsaber. Lastly, it makes sense from a narrative perspective. It's remarkably hard to use a lightsaber subtly. Jan can slit throats with a vibroblade without worrying about the light giving her away. Besides, you never know if you'll go up against pure cortosis, shorting out lightsabers completely.
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler
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2010-12-21, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Don't ask me where I read this, but I remember reading somewhere that using a Vibroblade and Lightsaber in conjunction is incredibly difficult due to the difference in weight and effort needed to move each of them. That means Jan's got a distinctive and potentially unpredictable style, giving extra fluffy points for a mysterious stranger type.
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2010-12-21, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world"
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2010-12-22, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 34SpoilerNi: "Alright, Carth. Tell me what happened."
Onasi: "We were making for the Starlight Casino; it's a space station in orbit around Ithor. Nice, wholesome fun, I thought. Not too much for Mission to steal, no one willing to give Canderous a fight -"
Ni: "A casino."
Onasi: "Not like a Nar Shaddaa casino. Small stakes, Ithorian-regulated, all that. No Exchange presence."
Ni: "Wait, let me guess. They wound up dead bored."
Onasi: "...yeah. Mission, Canderous and Zaalbar got approached by some unsavory people. To make a long story short, the Exchange wanted a cut of the action, and was trying to knock over the casino to prove a point. They recruited our people, and the three of them destroyed the group from the inside."
Ni: "Huh."
Onasi: "Hey, they may have been bored, but it doesn't mean that Mission or Zaalbar would stand for innocent people getting hurt. But we should probably keep them clear of the Exchange for the next few months."
Ni: "Juhani and Bastila?"
Onasi: "They took a trip down the surface - some nature tour. I guess they had fun. Said it was very peaceful."
Ni: "Kept the droids on-board?"
Onasi: "Yeah. T3 did maintainance, HK scared anyone away who got too close."
Ni: "And you?"
Onasi: "Broke even, more or less."
The Ebon Hawk departed Yavin station soon after, setting a course for one of the two Star Maps left. Shan had expressed a concern that her presence on Korriban might lead to unwanted attention, leaving Kashyyyk as the next destination.
Shan was performing maintainance on her lightsaber when she overheard and duly recorded the following conversation between Ni and Ordo.
Ni: "Canderous, could you give me an overview of the Mandolorian Wars? From your side, I mean. I know what the Republic says about them."
Ordo: "At the start, they were not much of a threat to speak of, but once the Jedi Revan had taken charge, things began to turn on us. The Republic fleets began to use more than just basic tactics. Feints, counterattacks, mass deceptions. Revan was a genius on the field."
Ordo: "And in the end, Revan proved too much for us."
Ni: "Wait, what about all of Exar Kun's remnants?"
Ordo: "The Sith had gone - retreated back into their empire. They sealed themselves off from the rest of the galaxy. We thought it would be centuries before they'd come back. It's amazing that they could rebuild their fleet so fast. But at the time, it looked like the galaxy was in our grasp!"
Ordo: "It was not your ships or your men or your vaunted 'fight for freedom' that won this, the final battle of the war. It was by the actions of one person, the Jedi Revan, that you prevailed."
Ordo: "Revan fought us to a standstill and then began pushing back. We didn't really have a chance."
Ordo completely ignores the role that the Mass Shadow Generator played in the battle. Combined with other Mandolorian records of the time, it is possible that the decisiveness of the superweapon in resolving the conflict was greatly over-stated by Republic sources.
Ni: "Wouldn't this have been a good time to retreat?"
Ordo: "It was what we had wanted all along, in a way. We wanted to fight the best in a battle that would be remembered for centuries. And we did."
Ordo: "I don't hold a grudge against Revan, and neither do any of my people. It was the greatest moment of my life to be in that battle. If Revan had been a Mandolorian, nothing in the galaxy would have stopped us. But wishing for the past to be different is useless. Better to look to the future. As we should now."
During the hyperspace travel, Ni also found time to make further repairs to HK-47.
HK-47: "Access complete: I have accessed information on my owner prior to the senator, master. Most... unexpected."
Ni: "Don't tell me. It's a galactic conspiracy."
HK-47: "Query: You know, master, that the probability of a galactic conspiracy remaining secret is infinitesimal?"
Ni: "Just joking. Go ahead."
Ni: "And what gruesome fate awaited him?"
HK-47: "Contemplation: Hmm. My memories tell me that, for a time, Bochaba was one of the most feared gangsters on Sleheyron. I helped him with this reputation greatly."
Ni: "What happened to stop that?"
HK-47: "Answer: It was unfortunate but inevitable that eventually Bochaba would overstep his bounds. I had just cleared two Hutt households when the Exchange retaliated."
Ni: "And how gruesome was his fate?"
HK-47: "At any rate, I quickly shut down upon my master's death. The rival Hutt claimed me along with my master's other possessions. Observation: If that Hutt had only known my true functions, he surely would not have sold me to a senator he bribed regularly."
Ni: "You would have preferred to stay on Sleheyron?"
Ni: "You would have been found out eventually."
Ni: "Do you remember anything else?"
HK-47: "Answer: Negative, master. There is still more memory that can be restored, however, if you wish to try. As well, I believe I can restore several programs the Hutt installed to improve my performance. Yesss... they are now active."
Ni: "I think I'm all out of time for this trip, and I'd rather not leave you dismantled while I'm on Kashyyyk."
As the Ebon Hawk completed its journey, Ni spoke with Onasi.
Ni: "Look, Carth. I just want to know why you want revenge on Saul so badly."
Ni: "No, it's more than that. It's more... personal, somehow."
Onasi: "Well, there... there is more to it. I'm... I'm sure you don't want to hear about it."
Ni: "I asked, didn't I?"
Ni: "Bastila? Could you give us a little privacy?"
Shan: "Oh. I suppose I'll speak with Juhani about something or another."
Onasi: "I had... a wife and son on Telos. I thought they would be safe there. But my task force arrived to late to be of much help. We didn't have enough medical supplies. The colony was burning and the dying were everywhere. I remember holding my wife and screaming for the medics. They... didn't come in time."
Ni: "I'm sorry. I didn't know."
Onasi: "I... miss them. I know killing Saul won't bring them back, and it won't make me happy again... but I have to do it."
Ni: "What was she like, your wife?'
Onasi: "She had courage... and she was stubborn. Heh. A bit like you in that respect. I could never talk her out of anything once she put her mind to it. And she hated it when I signed back onto the fleet at the start of the war. I had planned on... on leaving soon, to join her..."
Ni: "What happened to your son? You didn't say."
Onasi: "I made inquiries and followed the reports from Telos for years, but... I stopped. Anyway... that's the story. For what it's worth."
Ni: "Thank you for telling me."
The Ebon Hawk exited hyperspace, and swooped down upon the planet of Kashyyyk, site of the on-going Battle of Kashyyyk. between the CIS and the Republic.
CommentarySpoilerSo here's the problem: like the Holonet said, Canderous makes no mention of the Mass Shadow Generator. Which means that either the Jedi Exile makes a much greater deal out of it, or that Canderous is lying to us (unintentionally or not). Which one makes more sense?
What does Canderous gain from lying to us? Very little. What could he gain from lying to himself? Well, pinning all the blame/praise on Revan, instead of the zabrak, allows him to continue to elevate Mandolorian virtues. The only reason they lost was because Revan was a worthy opponent. I'll admit, this is reasonable. But while it could make sense, Canderous is just so blunt with everyone that I have trouble believing he could engage in this level of self-deception.
The other option is much more tempting, though. The Jedi Exile's story is much more personal than the space opera of KotOR 1. Consider this: the mass shadow generator was important in shaping the battlefield to Revan's advantage. But the losses that so utterly destroyed the Jedi Exile were, in Revan's mind, acceptable casualties. This option tells us so much more about both Revan and the Jedi Exile, and really drives home the scope of each. KotOR 1 is about the exploring the galaxy. KotOR 2 is about exploring the Exile.
Let's talk Carth. Last time, we got the root of his trust issues. This time, we're going past that, finding out what makes Lt. Carth Onasi tick. And it's revenge, but it's a very different kind of revenge than we usually get in media. Carth can see that his revenge won't solve anything, but he doesn't see an alternate path. And to be honest, it's not like he really wants to look for one. This is what makes Carth and Canderous into such different people: besides the soldier/warrior discussion they had back on Dantooine, Canderous doesn't really have a cause. Carth does, beyond just preserving the Republic. He wants what he realizes is a hollow revenge, but he's hopeful that killing Saul will allow him to move on.
It would be a major bummer if we never meet Admiral Saul Karath.
One of the joys of KotOR is being able to witness the evolution of your companions.
With Carth, it's all about winning his trust. And once you get that, you find out that Saul is responsible for all of Carth's ranting about how he can't trust you. And that gives you, the player, motivation to annihilate the admiral.
With Bastila, it's a brief struggle for control, followed by relative equality. Notice how Jan's stopped teasing her about the rescue? Bastila, though, has been increasingly been taking on a subserviant role - I mean, consider the conversation two episodes ago. She isn't acting like Jan's superior, and is confessing to feeling inferior.
But the really weird part about both Bastila and Carth is that their growths are typically something belonging to the other gender. Carth's is remarkably similar to that of a defrosting ice queen (TV Tropes warning), though his frigidness is much less 'I'm going to ignore you, lowly scum' and more 'don't get too close.' And while Bastila's growth can be seen as a defrosting ice queen as well, the struggle for dominance that features so prominently in your first conversation is something that shows up in buddy-cop movies. Which, last time I checked, were pretty much male-male.
But the rest of our companions will have to wait until later, when we actually have all of them. This is one of the reasons I think the game might have benefited from fewer companions. If you do Tatooine or Kashyyyk last, you can wind up with a companion out of no-where.
Also, Carth is dangerously close to using up all of his ellipses. Supposedly, Sleheydron was going to be one of the Star Map sites, but got cut fairly early on.
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler
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2010-12-23, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
I like to think that the Exile did indeed overemphasize the importance of the MSG. To the Exile, the MSG was a symbol for the entirety of his/her involvement in the Mandalorian Wars. The Exile sacrificed many of his/her beliefs when (s)he joined the Crusaders, and the MSG was the indelible fall where the Exile became the Exile and gave up (At least at the time) on all of the Jedi teachings that had defined him/her up until then.
As my personal canon, Revan could have won the war without the MSG. This might have been another reason why Canderous never mentions it. The war was already over at Malachor V. To the Mandalorians, the MSG was just another of Revan's ruthless tactical moves, the final nail in their coffin, but still just a nail amongst dozens of others that Revan had been relentlessly driving in. The MSG had two objectives that barely involved the Mandalorians at all. It destroyed the elements of his fleet that he couldn't trust to join him to conquer the Republic, and it turned the Jedi that would become the Exile, into the Exile. For reasons that we might learn in The Old Republic, Revan needed the Exile just as much as Kreia.
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2010-12-24, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
My assumption with the Mass Shadow Generator was that it was just the killing blow, the final part of a previously laid out battle. Revan maneuvered the Mandalorians to Malachor V in the first place, Revan's assaults and tactics forced the Mandalorians into the weapon's range, and Revan laid out the plan that the Exile was following when she gave the Kill command and triggered the Generator.
Since he doesn't go into any further detail about the battle other than "Only Revan could have beaten us" it always seemed to me that his thought process was "Revan forced us back into the planet, when he activated a superweapon which crushed our fleet. It was the type of Plan only he had the will to carry out."
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2010-12-24, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- The cradle of humanity
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 35SpoilerWe break from the usual Life Day programming to continue to bring you the continued story of Jan Ni and the Jedi Civil War. By a remarkable coincidence, just as the galaxy is celebrating Life Day, Ni and her companions were arriving at the planet where the holiday originated.
As the Ebon Hawk broke the atmosphere of Kashyyyk, and followed the beacons to a docking site, Ni asked Zaalbar what to expect.
Zaalbar: "I'm not sure what I could tell you. Or even what I would want to. You are an outsider here too. It angers me."
Ni: "Well, I'll just have to see for myself. Mission, Zaalbar - let's go."
Our records of the following events have been reconstructed from Vao's diary. It is nowhere near as precise a source as Onasi's journal or Shan's reports, but it provides a basis for logical extrapolation. For all of Vao's expertise, she writes like any sentient of her age.
Janos Wertka: "The Czerka Corporation will see to your needs, of course, but there will be a 100 credit docking fee. In advance, I fear."
Vao: "I thought this was Kashyyyk."
Wertka: "But, I'm sorry, I really must insist that docking fees be paid before I impart any further services. I must follow proper procedure. Upon collection of the correct fees, I will extend what resources the Czerka Corporation can offer. I'm sure you understand."
Ni: "I don't need to pay the docking fee."
Wertka: "I see you have a Wookie with you. Can I assume you understand their language? For a fee, Czerka Corporation can provide a translator for you during your visit."
Ni: "That won't be necessary."
Wertka: "Now then, please follow me to our information center. I will anser any further questions there."
Ni, Vao and Zaalbar followed Wertka at a leisurely pace, taking in the impressive sights.
Ni: "What do you mean, 'prepared me?'"
Zaalbar: "I didn't leave Kashyyyk voluntarily. Mission must have told you how I was fleeing slavers... but there was more."
Ni: "Why were you forced to leave?"
Zaalbar: "My brother made deals with the slavers and allowed them to get a foothold. I found out and attacked him."
Zaalbar: "I was made an exile, disowned by my home and people. I should not be here. They will not accept me back."
Ni: "Why didn't your father believe you?"
Zaalbar: "Our claws are tools, not weapons. To use them in battle is to become an animal. It is madness without honor. I am forever a madclaw in the eyes of my people. Nothing I say is to be trusted. They were right to cast me out."
Ni: "We'll deal with it if we have to. Let's go."
Zaalbar: "I don't have much hope."
In the information center, Zaalbar spoke to one of the Czerka employees.
Zaalbar: "Who leads the wookies?"
Ni: "You work on Kashyyyk and you don't understand the language?"
Technician: "Czerka Corporation calls the planet Edean, and no, I don't understand the language. The local Wookie leader has made it so we don't need to."
Ni: "What good does that do?"
Technician: "It helps ease tensions. They are less hostile towards us if they understand what we say."
Technician: "What did he say? I don't usually have a translator; I can ask."
Ni: "That knowing Basic just makes his people better slaves." Vao makes a comment here. "Oh, burned!"
Wertka: "Your current wookiee seems displeased with the situation, but I fail to see a concern. You seem to be a satisfied customer."
Vao: "Zaalbar's no slave! He pledged a life-debt to Jan!"
Zaalbar: "Do not demean the life-debt! Do not!"
Wertka: "I must warn you that you will be blamed for the actions of your wookiee. Please, call him off."
Ni: "Mission, Zaalbar, it might be better if you wait outside."
Zaalbar: "No, I want to hear everything he has to say."
Ni: "Why do the wookiees tolerate you doing this?"
Wertka: "It's not me, personally. I merely represent Czerka Corporation at this outpost. There are other directors at other stations, of course."
Ni: "You want to tell me about these arrangements."
Wertka: "I'll tell you about the agreement. We supply arms in exchange for a supply of healthy wookiees. We are kept profitable and an agreeable leader is kept in power. It keeps the process from becoming a constant firefight."
Ni: "What is this leader's name?"
Ni: "What about, Zaalbar? What's the matter?"
Zaalbar: "This is not something I will talk about. Not yet."
Wertka: "It sounds as though your thrall has an opinion about our arrangement with this leader, but it doesn't matter. Chuundar is unquestioned."
Ni: "I've heard enough."
Outside, the three stopped for a brief consultation.
Ni: "It sounds like we should try to avoid contact with your village, Zaalbar. And if the theory that Bastila has is right, then the Star Map will probably be near the largest trees, probably near the base somewhere."
Zaalbar: "Then it will be in the Shadowlands. Not many wookiees venture down there. We will have to use one of my people's lifts."
Vao: "Yeah, we don't have a hover-barge or anything like that. And the speeder repulstors max out at twenty meters."
Ni: "Alright, then. Looks like the lift is our only option, since I'm not giving Czerka a centicred."
Zaalbar: "Then let us go to the great walkway."
Guard: "Wookiee hunters usually keep numbers down, but I think they leave certain areas infested, just hoping a Czerka guard will get killed."
Ni: "What do you know about the wookiees?"
Ni: "So the wookiees are fighting back."
Guard: "Not anymore. Look, you want to know why the wookiees are acting compliant, you go ask them. When they rip your head off, we'll fish it out of the Shadowlands and give it a proper burial. How about that?"
Ni: "Tell me about Czerka's operations here."
Ni: "Try it, and the katarns will be eating well tonight."
Guard: "I don't take kindly to threats. Don't test me, spacer, we've more than enough firepower to bury you here."
Ni: "You didn't say that. I'm a nice person. You like me."
Ni: "Tell me about Czerka's operations here."
Guard: "I'd feel a lot better if we had heavier weapons. These wookiees can take hits from a blaster pistol without flinching. Wish we had some of those mandolorian rippers - the ones the say can go through capital ship plating."
Ni: "Numbers?"
Guard: "Wish we had more. We don't have nearly enough to cover all of the lines of approach, especially from the vertical."
Ni: "My twi'lek friend here is a good mechanic. She can give your blaster turrets there more coverage."
Vao: "Who, me?"
Guard: "That'd be kind of you. Go ahead, girl."
Ni whispered into Vao's ear as she unbolted the turret's maintainance casing.
Ni: "Give them a feedback loop - make it detonate with repeated fire."
Vao: "You're planning something?"
Ni: "Not yet. But I've got a feeling an uprising is in the works."
Once Vao finished her 'repairs' to the turrets, the three proceeded onto the great walkway.
CommentarySpoiler
Looks like that vacation really paid off, huh? Like I said, all of our party members level up at the same rate - I'm just only giving y'all their character sheets when I take them in the party. If anyone wants specifics, just ask. Right now, Zaalbar is using two vibroswords and Power Attack, and Mission is plinking away with a blaster pistol and Sniper Shot. Since Zaalbar can't wear a single piece of armor in the game, his defense has, and will continue to be terrible. Zaalbar has the potential to do more damage than Canderous, but Canderous will stay alive much much longer.
This is one of the main reasons I would have wanted the characters of Canderous and Zaalbar to be fused: they have very similar abilities already. Zaalbar is a Scout who plays like a Soldier. Canderous is a Soldier who already as implants, but has to manually take the implant feats (which Scouts get for free). Zaalbar is a glass cannon (TV Tropes warning), but hits at least as hard as Jedi, and harder if you get him the right vibroblades. Canderous is designed as a heavy weapon specialist, but gets forced into melee combat because a) they forgot to put in decent heavy weapons and b) he has a good Strength score. Either way, Canderous and his 10 Dexterity beg for the heaviest armor you have. Combined with his natural regeneration, and Canderous is probably the toughest character in terms of composite Defense/Hit Points. My idea for Wookie!Canderous is for him to be able to buy/find a suit of mandolorian crusader armor in the late game, thus creating a character who can go toe-to-toe with lightsaber master and come out even.
But rewrites aside: Zaalbar finally opened his mouth! And he still needs a breath mint.So what did today's episode tell us about him? Now that he's back on Kashyyyk, excuse me, Edean, he's a lot angrier (compared to what?), mainly because he has to watch his people suffer what he did. We learned that he's not only a wanderer, but an exile. That, combined with his reluctance to talk, even when the matter is immediately relevant, gave me my big insight for the episode. Zaalbar doesn't trust us. It's exactly the same hell that Carth put Jan through in the early game, only Zaalbar had the much more realistic reaction of just not talking to her. We can extrapolate from here: why would Zaalbar swear a life-debt to us and not even make an effort to try to assure a mutual trust? It doesn't make sense.
There are two ways of reading this: either Zaalbar is really reallly really terrible at personal relations, to an extent that would leave a human completely homebound, or the Big Z isn't nearly as old as we might think. Wookiees can live for 600 years, and undergo their coming of age ceremony at around 12. I'd be shocked if Zaalbar was much older than Mission. For comparison, Chewbacca was around 200 in Episode 4. If you think of Zaalbar as being, at latest, a young adult, then the rest of Kashyyyk makes a lot more sense.
Oh, and this kind of katarn, not this kind. If it was the second kind, we'd be so ridiculously screwed. Imagine if you will, a pack of Katarns - Kyle, Jan (nee Ors) and pack of younglings, with their mom's looks and brains and their dad's force powers. I'm terrified.
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler
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2010-12-24, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
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- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
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2010-12-27, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- The cradle of humanity
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Re: Holonet History Presents: Knights of the Old Republic (Let's Play)
Welcome...... to Knights of the Old Republic.
Episode 36Spoiler
On the Great Walkway, Ni, Vao and Zaalbar paused for a moment, catching their breath after beating off an attack by kinrath spiders.
Zaalbar: "I remember the trees. My village is not far from here."
Ni: "Anyway I can help you?"
Zaalbar: "It is kind of your to offer, but my problems are very personal. I'm not sure if I am ready to deal with them."
Zaalbar: "Perhaps his feelings have mellowed, but if my brother had his ear all this time... I may be very unwelcome."
Ni: "Like I said before, we'll deal with that when the time comes."
Zaalbar: "That is what I am dreading. My shame was meant to be forgotten on some far away world. I never thought I'd come back. I'm sorry, I've taken enough of your time. We should press on."
The trio continued along the walkway, fending off the occasional attack by wild beasts. They came upon a cluster of three Czerka mercenaries, clustered around a dead wookiee.
2nd Mercenary: "You think I can? Do you know what they get for a healthy one of these things?"
Dehno: "We'll work it out later. We've got company."
Ni: "My name is Jan Ni. What happened here?"
Dehno: "This wookie slave got a little... rebellious. We had to put it down."
Zaalbar: "You "put it down"? We're not animals!"
Ni: "Zaalbar, let me handle this."
Ni: "I've asked you to let me handle this. Please, honor my request."
Zaalbar: "I will do so. For your sake, not theirs."
Dehno: "Just shut up, you trigger-happy idiot."
Ni: "Do your superiors approve of you killing wookiees?"
Dehno: "No, of course they don't. Why would you ask me that? Are you doing some sort of snap inspection? You're trying to get me to admit to incompetence, aren't you? Not going to happen. I stand by my patrol. This wookiee got out of hand and had to be put down. We'll find another easy enough."
Ni: "No, you won't."
*snap-hiss*
The fight was concluded quickly.
But nearly within sight of the platform that descended into the Shadowlands, their passage was barred.
Guard: "Especially when you bring filth such as this with you. This madclaw has no place here."
Zaalbar: "Who are you to question my place? You follow Chuundar into the arms of outsiders."
Ni: "Where is Chuundar?"
Guard: "You will find him in the village of Rwookrrorro. He will decide if you are worthy."
Ni tried to rouse Onasi on her comlink, but some manner of intereference prevented her.
Ni: "Mission, I need you to get back to the Hawk. Tell Carth we were just attacked by a band of Crusaders. I need him to find their ship and destroy it. If they disappear, Malak will know we're here, but he'll know even faster if they get a report to him. Get Canderous and HK back her. It could be messy."
Vao: "Can't I follow you guys to the village, make sure you get there alright?"
Ni: "Fine. Zaalbar, how long until we get there?"
Zaalbar: "We're here."
Zaalbar: "Stand aside! This human is with me and I want access to the home of my people!"
Guard: "You have no rights here, mad-claw! This human should not have brought this taint upon our land! You must answer to Chuundar!"
Ni: "What taint?"
Guard: "Shut up! GROWWLL! You are nameless with dishonor, mad-claw! Yours is a foulness that disgusts me! RRaaaghh! Enough talk! You and the outcast mad-claw will be taken to Chuundar now!"
Ni and Zaalbar followed the Guard into the village, while Mission, drawing upon lessons learned in the lower city of Taris, crept back to where the Ebon Hawk was docked.
Join us next time, as we are forced to seek alternate sources for our history.
CommentarySpoilerI'm going into slightly more detail than I have with the incidental encounters. You're all smart types, I'm sure y'all can already see the options presenting themselves. Unlike Tattooine or Manaan, Kashyyyk is fairly tightly bound together - almost all of its encounters tie back into the central idea. On Kashyyyk, it encourages you to pick a side very quickly - are you for the wookiees or Czerka Corporation? The problem here is that there's very little reason to ever support Czerka Corporation initally. After all, Jan's been killing slavers since she rescued Zaalbar. What should the fact that they're humans and not gammoreans matter?
Seguing from that, let's talk about racism. The Czerka occupation of Kashyyyk, their re-naming of it, everthing they're doing, are all hallmarks of classic imperialism. As I was typing Wertka's dialogue last episode, I couldn't help but think of the kings in West Africa, who would sell captives to the white traders. The original movies show the Galactic Empire's non-egalitarian views: more by omission than admission. All the Imperial troops and officers we see are male, human, and white (and the white armor of the stormtroopers doesn't exactly detract from this). Grand Admiral Thrawn is practically the only non-alien in the Imperial military, and certainly the most high ranking. It's a similar situation with Ysanne Isard and Leonia Tavira (Daala doesn't count). I've read at least one essay on how droids are mistreated, and have more than a few in-universe examples (HK's comment on being treated like furniture, Atton Rand and Han Solo's general dislike of droids, and so on). I'm just going to be using the term 'imperialism' as a catch-all for this specism, racism, sexism, robophobia, etc. But whatever I call it, it's clearly endemic to the Star Wars universe.
But here's the question: why? I think a great deal of it harkens back to Lucas' sources. I can't comment on how present it is in Japanese cinema (The Hidden Fortress), but it's hugely present in the pulps. I'll let the wikipedia entry do most of the explaining, but the pulps were the manly action movies of their day. And, like good (mostly) mindless entertainment, they were intended as power fantasies for their audience. Which means that they say a great deal about what the authors considered to be empowering - the way things should be. A great deal of it was about capturing the thrill of exploration, filling in the empty areas of the maps. And exploration brought colonization and imperialism in its wake.
But unlike the original movies and its inspirations, KotOR forces us to confront the issue. And while pushing the player to confront and eliminate imperialism isn't a bad thing, it still hasn't gotten to the point that I'm completely satisfied with it. The lure of imperialism (peaking as a white, priviliged male) is that it makes you think that you know best, that you can save and protect these people. Maybe asking for that lure is too much from a game, too morally gray for the Star Wars universe. But it's the same problem most of the game has with the dark side as well - it isn't seductive.
I mean, Jan's doing good things here, isn't she? ... Isn't she?
Also, killing wildlife is apparently good for the soul.
Next time, on Knights of the Old Republic:Spoiler