Antithesis [3.5 Nothing Themed Class, PEACH needed]

[MammonAzrael]

I'll add in titles into the text for things I hadn't put in there.

Shiny.

Hmmm. I'll reduce the damage then. I could just make it 'everything in range taked d3/hd damage'. Probably won't even kill a wizard.

Hopefully, but it will still not be a pleasant thing. Effectively making the party take extra care of ensuring the Antithesis' survival...which the other players may not appreciate. I'd give the ability a set range of 15' or reduce the scaling to 5' per four class levels. It would also make sense for the damage to be at least partly sonic, from an inrush of air and sonic boom from the antithesis' being sucked into the nothingness they worship.

...good point. Will change.

Shiny.

...true, those numbers are way too big. Will change as recommended.

Shiny.

For Speed of the Nonexistent, I could split it into several class features. Some of the others don't really fit, and were thrown in to fill levels...

I'm more unsure at how believing in and channeling non existence makes one faster. Is it that you slowly lose your connection to the real world, and with that loosening connection comes a looser restriction of the rules of gravity and friction and such? If so then it doesn't really fit as a morale bonus, maybe a resistance bonus.

To make things fit more, I'd grant the class Fast Movement at 5th level, +10' to all movement speeds, improving by 10' at either 10/15/20 or 11/17. Then I'd say that the class chooses a bonus feat at 5th level, either Improved Grapple or Improved Trip, like the how the monk selects between two feats.

Then I'd grant the bonus to reflex saves and initiative at 10th level. Perhaps 1/2 Cha mod, then improve it to full at 15th level.

Will change Persistence to be under half health.
And for Greater Persistence, they are dealt damage by magic weapons as well. Will clarify that.

So...can they be hurt in an antimagic field? If not, then why would they ever leave one? There needs to be something mundane to overcome their regen. otherwise they'll never taken anything but nonlethal damage. Hell, a Warforged with the Improved Resiliency feat is immune to all damage at that point. Frankly I just don't think the regen is a good idea.

And I don't see how it makes sense from a flavor perspective, either. If anything, the anthiesis' beliefs should make it harder to heal. It believes, if I understand things, in the opposite of reality. In the unmaking of everything, of existence. That makes it effectively have a suicide wish but wanting to take everything along with it. That does not lend itself towards continued existence. Rather it lends itself to fading from reality.

Well, the way I see it is drawing something from nothing. By departing normality for seven levels, they're stronger when they return.

Huh? You can't draw something from nothing. There isn't anything to draw. Unless you're talking about the spontaneous generation of matter and antimatter that comes from nothing? Even then, generating anything seems to go against the very foundation this class is built upon. Which is nothingness. I would think it'd be almost heresy for an antithesis of that level to resort to using existence.

And when did they leave, so how did they return?

Channeled Void is a Swift Action; so it's effectively one per round without shenanigans.
...buuut, I could make it take a use of Annihilating Touch.

Ok. And it is still way better than any constrict ability I've ever seen. Take rushing Weight of the Mountain, widely regarded as one of the best options for grapplers, and a good stance. It grants a constrict of 2d6 + 1.5 Str mod. Which is nothing compared to a successful save against Channeled Void! Reduce it to dealing damage equal to the number of dice dealt by Annihilating touch, save for half, and it is still quite strong, but probably workable.

Also, from a flavor perspective, they shouldn't be able to force anything into anything. I could see them sucking some of the existence away from their target, but not forcing something in. The don't believe in something, they believe in nothing!

This was a more tangenital application of Something from nothing. Will replace with the second half of speed of the nonexistent.

Shiny.

Pooint. Hmm. I could make it do you cha damage. Two per use maybe?

Damage is pretty meaningless to an Antithesis. Have it deal ability burn. They're forcing a huge amount of nonexistence through themselves, that should severely weaken their own existence in reality. And an Antithesis that kills themselves from this ability damage ceases to exist. Their soul is destroyed. They cannot be raised, ever. Even divine intervention can only replicate, it cannot bring back the original soul, for that soul has been utterly annihilated, which is what the soul believed in anyways.

Nothing Storm would probably be reduced with the cha damage issue... if not, I could make it do cha damage as a cost in itself. In fact, that could be a theme... hmm...

Again, HP damage is pretty irrelevant to a class that grants itself Fast Healing and Regeneration. I'd go with the ability burn again. Either that or I'd reduce the range and make it take up 3-5 charges of your Annihilating Touch.

And I'm saying ability burn here because magic shouldn't be able to restore damage that was sacrificed to nothingness. There is nothing there for the magic to restore, and only the Antithesis' unique connection and understanding of non-existence allows him to regenerate that damage at all.

Yeah, Void Burn is way too much. Will remove cha mod. And reduce to 1d2 as well...

Shiny.

Oops. Yes.

Ok

That'd be interesting. I'll steal that.

Glad you like it. The feature is still boring unfortunately. I'd grant them some small DR, the ability to heal their ability damage more quickly, maybe some type of limited Dimension Door effect as they can step through reality in patches. Actually, I'd add a few more features, and then add the note that one they die, they can never be raised. Ever. Just like if they died from their own ability burn, they have become so in tune with the opposite of existence that they simply cease.

Once again, the theme of something from nothing. You can't kill what doesn't exist.
...that said, true resurrection is pushing it. I think I'll make it a normal resurrection, So they lose levels. And can do it a maximum of twice before 20th.

Right, and if they don't exist then they don't exist. There can't be some esoteric "existence-within-nonexistence." That is, by definition, existence. The universe, if it has a unique will in your games, should be more than happy to let the abomination of an Antithesis fade from existence forever. And wouldn't an Antithesis not being able to leave reality be just about the worst hell for it imaginable? It believes so strongly is nothing that it has spent 19 levels of its life devoted to that belief.

I'm honestly not sure what to do about this feature...it could be changed into a phylactery-style feature, made the level after they ascend to outsider-hood, to prevent them from being completely annihilated until their mission is complete. (Personally I can't imagine there mission to be any different from Tharzidun's, unless they are seriously deluded...which most probably are).

...yeah, that looks stronger than I remember. Will standardise the save a bit, and make it 1/day.

For destruction that complete, I'd have ti operate on a touch attack only, and I'd make them take both saves, and they'd have to fail both in order to die. If they make one save they take twice the damage of your Annihilating Touch, and if they make both they just take the normal damage of your Annihilating Touch.

Yeah, Tharizdun fits. xD

As I was reading this again, I had another thought. What happens to their gear when they die with Annihilate? Does it drop to the ground? Is it damaged by the blast? Is it sucked into nothingness with them?