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    Apr 2005

    Default Re: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It all looks pretty solid. I really like the mechanism of divine channeling. You're pretty good up through the first 10 levels or so. But after that, it starts to get somewhat dull-- all you get are bonus feats and incremental improvements to existing abilities. I respect the desire to adhere as closely as possible to the original class, but... well... the paladin has 6 levels worth of abilities.

    The versatility is also a tad lacking for tier 3. Smites give you a small damage boost, but not enough (+20 damage at level 20!... does not compare to spells and maneuvers from ten levels ago). Lay on Hands gives you pretty good healing ability, but in-battle healing is weak. Having spells helps, but the list is still kind of 'eh,' especially when you have to consume spells to power your class abilities. Most of the time, you'll be smiting.

    To address the points above, I suggest you add more high-level abilities. Rider effects on smites might be cool to see, as well as some of the lay-on-hands status cures you mentioned. Out-of-battle abilities might also be a worthy addition-- say, zone of truth as a SLA.

    Just my two cents.
    I did consider adding more abilities especially at high levels. (See my spoilered section at the end of removed abilities), my biggest issue was I wanted a Paladin that had essentially the same abilities as a core paladin, but could use them effectively enough to pull him up to a solid tier. The Paladin spell list is solid, but Paladins don't get enough spells. Divine Feats are awesome, but Paladins have limited usage of them, are typically extremely MAD so have a low Cha, and really don't have a ton of feats to spare for it. Paladins can heal with LoH, but generally only once per day.

    This Paladin was taking the things that were already there and making them more readily available. Divine Feats and Devotion feats are generally really good and scale well, and Paladins get some neat unique spells. This paladin has options in combat pretty much always, and has enough diversity in those options to make it a tier 3, if a low one. I definitely think it could keep up with a straight Tome of Battle class.

    I mean, there is a feats that give charisma to damage for a round, to move as a swift action, to gain bonus strength, to gain flight, AC both to self and allies, etc. And almost all of these options are swift action effects, which combined with swift action spells (which you now have much more of) I think is pretty solid.

    If you really do think more is needed, do you mind checking through the removed abilities and see if you think anything in there might fill that gap?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi
    For Battle Blessing, I realize there already exists a feat with the same name, and you're giving it to the paladin for free, but...

    Well the only real point of making it a bonus feat rather than turning it into a class feature was so that if desired, a Paladin could choose to take it earlier for swift action spells at a lower level.

    I understand the worry if Complete Champion isn't allowed, but if the game isn't allowing the Completes, this Paladin doesn't work well anyway, because all of the bonus feats are also useless. The class really leans heavily on use of Divine/Devotion feats. So if Complete Divine/Champion aren't allowed, this isn't a fix that would be generally useful in the first place. (It might still be a bit better due to more uses of smite, but not hugely so)
    Last edited by Seerow; 2012-01-24 at 05:31 PM.
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