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Thread: "Common Sense" approach to rules (RACSD)

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    Default Re: "Common Sense" approach to rules (RACSD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    Rule 15: Unconscious does not mean Mindraped

    It has been argued whether unconscious creatures get a Will save. To me, it is clear that the following paragraph is to be read in context:

    Which implies that it applies to spells that affect willing targets (unless one purposefully ignores the first part of the paragraph).

    The rules on the condition unconscious in no way indicate an unconscious target would not get a save, or not a Will save: see the SRD.

    Denying an unconscious creature a Will save opens the gates to all kind of abuse, including mindrape.

    Thus, I propose rule 15:

    Clarification: An unconscious creature is not hindered from making a Will save. In the case of harmless effects, or in the case of spells that affect willing targets only, the creature is considered willing.
    You would be wrong by RAW and what you propose is the opposite of common sense. Why do you think that a character you has been knocked out is in any position to resist someone tinkering around in his head?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD on Spell Descriptions
    Some spells restrict you to willing targets only.
    This is clear, willing target is a special subset of targets and some spells restrict you to only this subset (like others restrict you to, say, constructs).
    Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if youíre flat-footed or it isnít your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
    If you are unconscious then you are willing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD on Saving Throws
    Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw

    A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spellís result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.
    If you are willing (which being unconscious makes you) then you give up your saving throw.

    Note that a creature who is asleep is not suffering from Unconsciousness (they are merely helpless) and thus still get's a saving throw.
    Last edited by Emperor Tippy; 2012-04-20 at 06:58 PM.
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