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    Feb 2006
    Washington, DC

    Default Re: [3.5] The Flash: Vanguard Class & Lightning Fox Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Great class! Some concerns but I'm trying to look over the math first.

    First, your Bonus Feat entry doesn't match the table. Namely, Spring Attack and Mobility.
    Fixed the chart. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Second, why does constant Freedom of Movement come so late? I don't feel that it is too broken to move it up, the problem is that I just don't know where it should be moved to because every level has its own goodie right now. Ahh dilemma...
    Yeah, 18th level is a bit long to wait for Freedom of Movement. But note that the Scout gets it at 18th level as well, and that Tome of Battle classes in general don't have amazing base class abilities, because they're getting fully scaled maneuvers and stances. For example, the Swordsage only gets Improved Evasion at 17th level, and nothing at 18th or 19th. Past Mettle at 13th level, the Crusader gets nothing but more Steely Resolve and Smite uses. And the Warblade gets his Int to AoO at 15th level, a bonus Feat at 17th level, and nothing at 18th or 19th level. I don't want to make the Vanguard too powerful compared to other ToB classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Lastly, Lightning Fox is a really heavy Bull Rush discipline, but it doesn't have any boosts that add a general bonus to Bull Rush or replacing the Str check with Dex. Why not? For example, Setting Sun allows Dex or St for Trip attacks.

    Bull Rush is also limited to creatures within a certain size range, which really limits the monsters this character can adequately fight. Or am I not giving enough credit to the other two disciplines?

    I simply feel that there should also be a maneuver that could get around that as well. As a standalone discipline, it seems to have much more flaws than the fighting styles of other disciplines, but doesn't seem to try to address them through maneuvers.
    Take a look at the first level stance, Momentum. Through movement, it allows you to build up a bonus (up to your Dex modifier) to all damage, Bull Rush, Disarm, Overrun, Sunder, Trip, breaking item checks, Escape Artist Skill checks, and on any opposed check made to physically push or move an opponent or resist such an attempt.

    So if you choose to use this stance, your bonus to most opposed checks will be 1d20 + size + Str + Dex + Feats + weapon properties + magic items. If you specialize in any particular check, then that's likely to be a very high number. And it won't just be for certain maneuvers (like Setting Sun) but for all such checks (for example, if you use Knock-Down or Knockback)

    You're correct that Lightning Fox does have a fairly limited play style - you can move around very easily, Bull Rush/Trip/Overrun (with fairly effective bonus damage), and avoid attacks (there are a lot of counters). But when combined with other Disciplines, I've found that it's really quite balanced and fun.

    But perhaps you are right. Do you have any specific additions you think I should make to round out the Discipline and make it more flexible?

    Thanks a lot for the feedback. It is truly appreciated. If there are any other ideas or edits, please let me know. I'm still very much open to changing stuff around.
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2012-04-30 at 11:26 AM.