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    Feb 2006
    Washington, DC

    Default Re: [3.5] The Flash: Vanguard Class & Lightning Fox Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Ahh I see. That is true...I guess the FoM is fine at level 18 then. Also would this class prioritize Dex or Str? It seems to imply Dex but Str also helps with many of its abilities. What did you intend when you made this class?
    My intent was to give the player many options to choose from. You can prioritize Strength, avoid maneuvers with Save DC's (although there are a few with Str based DC's in other disciplines), and be a strait melee build with some cool mobility options. You can prioritize Dex, use Weapon Finesse and maybe the Falling Star discipline, the Momentum stance, and maneuvers with Save DC's. You can prioritize both Str and Dex, and have very high opposed checks, but some MAD issues. You can even prioritize Wisdom, use Intuitive Strike and Wis based Swordsage disciplines.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Also just noticed that your table's stance progression is wrong too. Second stance is at 3rd level right?
    Fixed. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Have you thought about adding the other feats in the Spring Attack line?
    It's certainly a possibility. Though I'd probably just add them as class abilities or maneuvers rather then Feats, because other classes really wouldn't have a use for them (since getting Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack are such piss poor feats), and I dislike "Feat taxes" (If a class "should" be capable of doing something, they should just be able to do it. They shouldn't have to pay an extra cost to do it).

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    I think what can help diversify the discipline are some "close combat" maneuvers. Right now it has a huge dependence in being able to move in a straight line - but this results in the high base move speed hindering the class. Even in a relatively big and open plain, how often do you get to move 300 ft before hitting opponents? Obviously this is solved by class features at higher levels, but really you can have maneuvers for it as well.

    For example, instead of "moving X in a straight line" (by the way, you misspell "straight" multiple times throughout your maneuvers. You should fix that ) you can use other criteria.

    One criteria could be "when you are above your opponent by X feet". Why is this more close combat oriented? First of all, you are normally "boxed in" when there are walls and roofs around you. However, the Vanguard is one of the few classes that is able to freely move between floor, wall, and even ceiling with ease.

    This means that even if the Vanguard is boxed in, she can just moved above her opponent and use this maneuver. Much more painless and provides a fun option on a tactical level.
    Well, you do have access to 2 other non-Lightning Fox disciplines of your choice, so you should always have something to do as long as you move enough to refresh your maneuvers. (And unlike the Swordsage and Warblade, refreshing your maneuvers is basically a free action as long as you make some effort to move around the battlefield. So you never "waste" a round on refreshing).

    But I love the idea of having maneuvers focused on dropping on top of your enemy. Give me a little time to write and play test them, then I'll add them to the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batpope Scott View Post
    This class looks great and I would personally allow it when I DM, bu one thing that worries me is the vorpal punch as a third level maneuver. Vorpal is an ability not to be had until epic levels in the base game and even with a fort save it seems a slight bit powerful because we've all had that bad roll.

    Other than that, great job.
    It is a potent effect. But it's a Standard Action maneuver, so at most you're getting 1 chance to trigger it, it only triggers on a natural 20, and it allows a Saving Throw. I would say that it's considerably weaker then Hold Person or similar Save or Lose/Die effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batpope Scott View Post
    It just says run past them with the run action. You can end a run action anytime if I remember correctly and with max ranks in tumble and a good dex score those checks to avoid attacks are nothing because of the ability to ignore the penalty to tumble while running.
    You are correct about this. Run is a full round action (until your capstone ability) which allows you to move up to 4 times (or 5 times with the Run feat) your movement speed in a strait line. You can stop at any point during your Run. For the maneuvers that require a Run action, the point is that you have the option of starting very far away or ending your turn very far away from your opponent.

    Thanks for the commentary everyone. It is appreciated.