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Thread: Fixing SKR's Feat Point System

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    Default Fixing SKR's Feat Point System

    Sean K Reynold's Feat Point System sounds like a wonderful thing. Much of his writeup is legitimately insightful, and the mechanics he chose are good ones.

    The problem is in his ranking. Serious and systemic flaws in his perspective cause him to massively overvalue certain poor feats like Two Weapon Fighting (according to him, the best feat in core), and critically undervalue excellent feats like Natural Spell (according to him, one of the weakest feats in core).

    This is my attempt to re-assign the point values. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. I think my initial scorings here are considerably more accurate than SKR's, but there will undoubtedly be flaws that need to be corrected.

    Please feel free to provide your own rankings!


    SKR's Mechanics:
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    Feat Points
    Each time a character gains a feat, she instead gets 10 feat points which she can use to purchase feats. Characters must still meet all prerequisites as normal. Unspent feat points carry over from level to level, but a character can only purchase feats with feat points at the times in her adventuring career when she could normally select a feat, even if she has extra feat points left over (for example, a character with 6 feat points left over from character level 3 could not spend them until level 6--the next level at which she gains a feat) .


    A class that grants bonus feats grants bonus feat points of the appropriate type. For example, the fighter class gives 10 fighter feat points at levels 1, 2, 4, 6, and so on. Typed feat points can only be used on feats of the appropriate type, so a fighter can only use his fighter feat points to purchase fighter feats. However, any normal (typeless) feat points can be combined with typed feat points to purchase typed feats. You can still only use these feat points to purchase feats of the type you could normally purchase at that level.
    Example:Tegdar is a human ftr1 with 3 typeless feat points left over from 1st level. He reaches 2nd level and gains 10 fighter feat points. Tegdar decides to use 7 of those points to purchase Combat Reflexes (cost: 7 points) , leaving him with 3 fighter feat points and 3 normal feat points. He decides to combine these feat points and purchase Far Shot (cost: 6points) . He now is completely out of feat points. He could not have used his 3 normal feat points to purchase feats other than fighter feats because he can only select those feats at level 1, 3, 6, and so on.

    Feat Point Debt
    At 1st level, and 1st level only, a character is allowed to overspend her feat points by selecting one or more feats with a cost of 11 or more feat points. The extra cost of these feats is carried over until the next time she gains feat points of the appropriate type. She can go into "feat point debt" up to 3 points. Feat point debt is tracked separately by type of feat point (typeless, fighter, wizard, etc.) .The feat point debt system allows characters using it to maintain parity with characters who don't (characters using the standard rules could sometimes end up with several strong feats at 1st level, penalizing the feat-point character) .

    Example: Vidda, a halflingrog1, has 10 feat points. She selects Two-Weapon Fighting (11 points) and goes into feat point debt by for point. The next time she gains typeless feat points (3rd level) she only gains 9instead of 10 because of the 1-point debt. She gains the normal 10 feat points at levels 6, 9, and so on.
    Example:Tegdar, a human ftr1, has 20 typeless feat points (10 from being1st-level, 10 from being human) and 10 fighter feat points. He chooses Point Blank Shot (9 points) and Two-Weapon Fighting with his typless feat points, which brings his typeless feat points to 0 (if there were a 12-point feat he qualified for, he could have selected that instead of Two-Weapon fighting, which would have put him in debt for 1feat point) . He purchases Rapid Shot (11 points) with his fighter feat points, which puts him in debt for one fighter feat point. At 2ndlevel, he gains 9 fighter feat points instead of 10 because of the1-point debt. He gains the normal 10 fighter feat points at fighter level 4, 6, and so on. His typeless feat points (at level 3, 6, and soon) are unaffected (though if he had chosen a 12-point feat instead of Two-Weapon Fighting he would have paid that typeless feat point debt at level 3 when he gained more feat points) .


    Virtual Feats
    Virtual feats, such as those conditional feats granted by the monk and ranger classes, do not grant feat points, cost feat points, or cause or negate feat point debt.


    {table]Feat Name|Feat Cost|Notes
    Acrobatic | 4 |
    Agile | 4 |
    Alertness | 4 |
    Animal Affinity | 4 |
    Armor Proficiency (Heavy) | 5 |
    Armor Proficiency (Light) | 5 |
    Armor Proficiency (Medium) | 5 |
    Athletic | 4 |
    Augment Summoning | 10 |
    Blind-Fight | 6 |
    Brew Potion | 4 |
    Cleave | 7 |
    Combat Casting | 4 |
    Combat Expertise | 6 |
    Combat Reflexes | 8 |
    Craft Magic Arms and Armor | 6 |
    Craft Rod | 6 |
    Craft Staff | 6 |
    Craft Wand | 6 |
    Craft Wondrous Item | 8 |
    Deceitful | 4 |
    Deflect Arrows | 7 |
    Deft Hands | 4 |
    Diehard | 3 | Near-worthless except as a requirement
    Diligent | 4 |
    Dodge | 5 |
    Empower Spell | 7 |
    Endurance | 3 |
    Enlarge Spell | 7 |
    Eschew Materials | 4 |
    Exotic Weapon Proficiency | 5 |
    Extend Spell | 7 |
    Extra Turning | 8 |
    Far Shot | 5 |
    Forge Ring | 6 |
    Great Cleave | 4 | Cleave is expensive, but the upgrade should be cheap
    Great Fortitude | 7 |
    Greater Spell Focus | 6 | Raised from 5
    Greater Spell Penetration | 5 |
    Greater Two-Weapon Fighting | 3 |
    Greater Weapon Focus | 6 |
    Greater Weapon Specialization | 4 |
    Heighten Spell | 6 |
    Improved Bull Rush | 5 | Bull Rushing is usually weaker than other maneuvers
    Improved Counterspell | 7 |
    Improved Critical | 8 |
    Improved Disarm | 6 | Disarming is usually weaker than other maneuvers
    Improved Feint | 8 |
    Improved Grapple | 8 |
    Improved Initiative | 8 |
    Improved Overrun | 6 |
    Improved Precise Shot | 8 |
    Improved Shield Bash | 8 |
    Improved Sunder | 6 |
    Improved Trip | 10 | Tripping is widely considered excellent
    Improved Turning | 6 | Lowered from 7
    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting | 4 |
    Improved Unarmed Strike | 4 |
    Investigator | 4 |
    Iron Will | 7 |
    Leadership | 15 | A truly game-breaking feat if used right
    Lightning Reflexes | 7 |
    Magical Aptitude | 4 |
    Manyshot | 7 |
    Martial Weapon Proficiency | 4 |
    Maximize Spell | 7 |
    Mobility | 4 |
    Mounted Archery | 5 |
    Mounted Combat | 6 |
    Natural Spell | 10 |
    Negotiator | 4 |
    Nimble Fingers | 4 |
    Persuasive | 4 |
    Point Blank Shot | 6 |
    Power Attack | 10 |
    Precise Shot | 7 |
    Quick Draw | 5 | Lowered from 6
    Quicken Spell | 10 | Possibly the best core Metamagic feat
    Rapid Reload | 6 |
    Rapid Shot | 8 | Originally listed as 5, I'll blame typo here
    Ride-By Attack | 8 |
    Run | 4 |
    Scribe Scroll | 6 |
    Self-Sufficient | 4 |
    Shield Proficiency | 5 |
    Shot On The Run | 8 |
    Silent Spell | 7 |
    Simple Weapon Proficiency | 3 |
    Skill Focus | 5 |
    Snatch Arrows | 4 |
    Spell Focus | 7 | Raised from 5
    Spell Mastery | 6 |
    Spell Penetration | 8 |
    Spirited Charge | 8 |
    Spring Attack | 9 | With cheaper Dodge/Mobility, this feat becomes excellent
    Stealthy | 4 |
    Still Spell | 7 |
    Stunning Fist | 8 |
    Toughness | 3 |
    Tower Shield Proficiency | 6 |
    Track | 5 |
    Trample | 6 |
    Two-Weapon Defense | 4 |
    Two-Weapon Fighting | 7 | With the later feats in the chain cheapened, TWF improves
    Weapon Finesse | 8 |
    Weapon Focus | 7 |
    Weapon Specialization | 5 |
    Whirlwind Attack | 9 |
    Widen Spell | 6 |[/table]
    Last edited by sonofzeal; 2012-06-03 at 06:46 PM.
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