Quote Originally Posted by Gaelbert View Post
Neither of those are "straight upgrade." A straight upgrade has an improvement without any sort of disadvantage to offset it. The two examples I can think of (although I know there are a few more) are the Amputator and the Third Degree.
The amputator has the exact same stats as the standard bonesaw, with the addition of a taunt that can heal multiple allies at once. The Third Degree has the same stats as the Fire Axe, but damages any medic healing your target.
Interestingly enough, neither of the "straight upgrades" are frequently used. The Amputator taunt is so situational and makes you so vulnerable that there's almost never any point to using it instead of the ubersaw or the vita-saw. The only conceivable reason for using it is the healing regen you get as part of its set, not because the taunt itself is particularly useful.
With the Third Degree, you're better off with the degreaser/axetinguisher combo in nearly every case due to the vastly increased damage potential. However, neither the axetinguisher nor the degreaser can properly be called "straight upgrades" even though they're used by almost all players almost all of the time. The degreaser has a reduction in afterburn damage, and the axetinguisher deals no random crits or something trivial like that.

With very few exceptions, the vanilla weapons will provide you with the best results in the most likely situations. They also generally have higher skill ceilings, a plus if you intend to get into competitive play or even if you just want to get better.
All valid points, but I consider straight upgrades to be such in the case that they're more useful then their vanilla counterparts. The degreaser/axetinguisher combo can still be used in the same fashion as the flamethrower/axe combo with slightly less damage, but the other situational (and more often than not you're in those situations) advantages make up for it.

Much like the ubersaw being slower than the bonesaw, but the fact that you gain uber on hit makes it more valuable as you get more uber from spies (quite frequently) and more shenanigans can be had it with.

I count them as straight upgrades because of those reasons, rather than saying that they have to be the same but better. They're different but much better imo :P