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Thread: Help Newbie Barbarian Bash Heads

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Help Newbie Barbarian Bash Heads

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    The three main choices seem to be
    1) Factotum
    - (6+Int mod) skills per level, treat any skill as class skill
    - Inspiration, Cunning Insight, Cunning Knowledge, Trapfinding. 2 level dip adds Arcane dilettante, but a 2 level dip here seems darned unlikely.
    - Doesn't advance BAB or Fort save with a 1 level dip, does advance Reflex.
    Chief selling point is any skill as class skill.
    This shouldn't be on the table unless you've got a good Intelligence modifier, which seems unlikely for an Orc. The big selling point for Factotum is getting Int to everything, especially all Str/Dex checks on level 3, and able to add them to attacks and such with Inspiration. You can get all the skills you want anyways (Rogue, Ranger, Barbarian, Warblade gives you massive coverage already; hell, Rogue alone covers almost everything); there's little value in the more esoteric skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    2) Martial Rogue
    - (8 + Int modifier) per level, a host of class skills.
    - Bonus Feat, Trapfinding. If 2 level dip, Evasion
    - Doesn't advance BAB or Fort save with a 1 level dip, does advance Reflex.
    Even more skill points, less broad array of things to use them on.
    Mimic, Spell Reflection, and Wilderness Rogue could all be useful?
    Much better than Factotum in every relevant regard unless you have ~+3 Intelligence modifier or higher. Now the question is if you want the BAB from Ranger or the extra skill points from Rogue; basically, where on the skill/combat axis you want to place yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    3) Ranger
    - (6+Int mod) skills per level, reasonable array of skills to invest in.
    - Class features - 1st favored enemy, Track, wild empathy. If 2 level dip, Combat style.
    - Advances BAB, Fortitude, and Reflex saves
    Arcane Hunter, voice of the city, trap expert, favored environment, and fast movement all could be good trades. If dipping for 2, might be worth trading combat style out for something else due to the armor limitation? Or try to persuade GM to allow a 2-handed combat style? EDIT: Just saw that apparently there are alternate combat styles elsewhere, one of which uses Power Attack?
    Yeah, Dragon Magazine 326 has the following extra Combat Styles (listing feats in order "Combat Style, Improved Combat Style, Greater Combat Style"):
    Bear-Wrestling: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple & Stunning Fist
    Mounted Combat: Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge & Trample
    Piscator: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Improved Trip & Improved Critical
    Strong-Arm: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Great Cleave
    Throwing: Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot

    Out of those, Strong-Arm is the obvious choice, as you'll only ever get the first feat anyways so the rest don't really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    Between the three, Ranger is ahead thanks to the BAB and two strong save bonuses. On the other hand, I then have to spend a feat on Able Learner if I want everything as a class skill. Rogue gives a bonus feat (I think) which could be put right into able learner, and it gives an even larger number of skill points.
    Martial Rogue has the same bonus feat levels as Fighter, so you get bonus feat on level 1 and level 2. The bonus feats have to be Fighter feats tho (but you can just pick up e.g. Power Attack and Combat Reflexes and use your normal 1st level feat for Able Learner).

    Note tho, Able Learner doesn't work quite like you think. Basically, normally you have some class skills and cross-class skills. Your class skills have maximum cap of 3+Your Character Level (this applies if a skill is a class skill for any of your classes so taking a level of Ranger = all Ranger-skills forever have the maximum cap rank of 3+Your Character Level for this character) and cross-class skills have maximum cap of that, rounded down.

    Further, however, cross-class skills cost twice as much to take. That is, it costs you two skill points to take 1 rank of a cross-class skill. This is not mitigated even if the skill is a class-skill for your other classes, so if your Ranger 2/Barbarian 1 wants to place a 6th rank (5 ranks as Ranger) to Hide when taking the level of Barbarian, he pays 2 skill points for it. This is where Able Learner comes in; it makes all skills cost you 1 skill point/rank no matter whether they're class skills or cross class skills.

    However, there's this little detail that Able Learner is Human-only feat. You can probably ask your DM to remove that restriction tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    Two other questions:
    1) If I take, for example, a level of rogue and get trapsense and swap it out for something, and then take a level of barbarian, and get trapsense again, can I swap it out for yet another thing or is it counted as part of the first trapsense?
    Yes, trades are made separately for each class.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirAxealot View Post
    32) Is Fangshields Barbarian worth investigating?
    It doesn't have anything earthshattering; I wouldn't bother.

    EDIT: It occurs to me my explanation of Able Learner was convoluted. An effort to make it more clear:

    Class Skill: Cap rank 3+Character Level. Every rank costs 1 skill point.
    Normal Cross-Class Skill: Cap rank (3+Character Level)/2. Every rank costs 2 skill points.
    Cross-Class Skill that is a class skill for another class this character has: Cap rank (3+Character Level)/2. Cap rank 3+Character level. Every rank costs 2 skill points.
    Cross-Class Skill on a character who has Able Learner: Cap rank (3+Character Level)/2. Every rank costs 2 skill points. Every rank costs 1 skill point.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2012-09-24 at 04:00 PM.
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