Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
Honestly, I still don't like magic checks, but that's another thing. A few of hte people on Skype agree with me. Magic needs more rolls than anything else, you need to roll two checks for every spell, spell check and save.
One suggestion I have is to rewrite spells so they all still do something on a successful save.
I also dislike the idea of a magic check. Flavor-wise, the whole reason Vancian casting prepares spells in the first place is that you're doing a little mini-ritual to pre-cast it. You're doing all the actual casting in safe, quiet environs and then releasing a nice, tidy, controlled packet of energy later; a magic check to control the magic or channel arcane forces or whatever doesn't make much sense in that context.

Mechanically, as you noted, needing only one roll for each effect is more efficient. There's a reason that most 3e spells require either an attack roll or a save, not both, and those that require both do so either for thematic reasons (phantasmal killer = illusion + death spell, so you roll two saves) or balance reasons (disintegrate, slay living, and other SoDs/SoSs are too powerful to take effect with just an attack roll). Balance the more powerful spells and there's no longer any reason to require two rolls per spell, particularly if you're keeping other rolls around (like CL checks for dispel magic).