Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
It helps, but honestly even the figures I cited are probably way too low as it is; thicker air by a factor of 2-3x might almost bring it into the realm of possibility, but no more.

Consider that the double axe has at most 2 sq ft of airfoil with a radius of maybe 4-5 ft, while human-powered helicopters need (at 16-18 Str and probably 16+ Con) multiple 20' radius rotors operating in ground effect to manage a minute of hovering at max; total area is something over 300 sq ft. (That is, they're gaining a substantial boost by never going more than 2 ft off the ground.)

Dragons arguably fly partly by innate low-key magic (much like the magic that holds undead or constructs together); also, they're designed to fly, and have big enough wings to manage a small margin (i.e., enough to perform wing buffets).

Humans (or elves, or dwarves, or other substantially similar races) are not built for flight; our power-to-weight ratio is horribly low in general. However, if I wanted to be mean I'd say make the feat give nothing but hovering; actually moving anywhere, or getting more than 15' off the ground, requires another feat and still higher ability score prerequisites.

Ah, jokes are often hard to detect with certainty. Sorry.

This is true enough as far as it goes, but sacrificing all manner of plausibility in order to correct metagame balance concerns is not, in my opinion, a good way to deal with things. There are some existing ways to (partially) solve this, or you can design a martial class that is not fully mundane in order to get around it (Ranger animal companion, Paladin special mount, etc), but there is no way you are going to get decent flight without either technology (usually involving fixed wings or compact engines or both), magic, or overtly superhuman beings (in which case the magic is in their muscles/wings/what have you).

alright. got a lot of stuff to reply to. i'll start with this one.

so the guy using the human powered helicopter was both an olympic power lifter and an olympic marathoner?

a strength of 20 is superhuman. we are talking about a level of strength that isn't even possible in the real world without steroids, extensive training, or both.

@dragon flight. nope. their flight is a natural ability. no magic involved, just big muscles and big wings. and they most certainly are not shaped for flight.

@plausibility. it's exactly as plausible as anything else in this game. no one complains when trolls regenerate their head and all their limbs within a few minutes, get them cut off again, and repeat the process.

@graft. that's still magic. grafts are magic items, created by casters.

@critical fumble. this is a houserule. they aren't a thing in the actual rules, or in any game you'd see me in. the closest i ever get to that is a 1 ends your turn, which doesn't interfere with this feat.

@ improved disarm. go ahead, i dare you to try to take a 2 handed weapon from someone strong enough to fly with it. waste the action, please. besides, what's 10d6 max falling damage, anyway?

@sunder a good DM won't remind the players about how to destroy other players' gear, nor will they go around looking for ways to screw their players. and no one said the weapon wasn't magic. legacy items FTW. no caster needed for that.

@dragons again. well, personal houserules really don't matter here. dragons can attack with their wings while flying. and no, they can't attack while gliding. gliding requires holding the wing out straight to catch the air, you can't glide if you're moving your wing around trying to hit someone, because the wing isn't catching air like that. it has to be done as part of the flapping motion.

@hold person. yep. you are in the same danger as everyone else using any non-magical means of flight. a bird has the exact same problem.