Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
Actually, reread the PHB fluff with Clerics. They don't have to be ordained.
I know, but this is playing fast and loose with the definition of the word 'cleric'!

Paladins are certainly not definition B secular (i.e. in the sense of uninterested in religion), but that is not really the issue.
Well, I was of the impression you were saying they could be... although I should note that I didn't mean 'concerned with' as in 'interested in'. I meant it as 'of or related to'.

Paladins receive divine protection, aid and spells. The source of that power is Divine (in the D&D sense of Arcane and Divine). It does not follow that Paladins receive that power from a Deity or group of Deities, unless that is the only way such power can be granted in a given campaign world. Divinities (in D&D) acquire Divine power themselves, they are not actually the font of divine power. There are (for instance) limits to what they can do.
Oh good grief. The worst part of this is that you're technically right, but surely you can see that this is absurd?

-- But I'm not going to let myself get all tangential on the matter of first causes. Your assertion that paladins may be 'divine' but not 'serving a deity' (as described in my post) is noted, accepted, and then politely overlooked. Elliot stated the reason why:

Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
Nonetheless, to get back to paladins: the vast majority will be holy warriors who draw their powers from one or more deities. Can we at least agree on that? So while there may be a tiny minority who are secular, the majority will not be?
Indeed. Most paladins do in fact draw their power from serving a deity. Therefore I wrote my post with such paladins in mind.