Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
According to some people on these forums, 5e needs to be tossed out and started over again, since as it stands it doesn't tell you how to rule every single potential aspect of a game.
No one said that. Please stop being offensive by exaggerating things to the point of absurdity.

For instance if I were to tell you that "According to some people on these forums, 5e should never be critiqued, since as it stands the DM can fix anything, even the most broken destructive rules." You would probably be offended.

Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
Houserule: "Creation cannot make magic items." Takes less than ten seconds to think up and tell your players.
Good Berries aren't magic. They are enchanted. Not all DMs will make that house rule. Some won't even realize the potential for harm and simply allow it. We shouldn't assume all DMs will make the smart choice. Some won't even realize its a problem until its too late and the players have a ton of Good Berries (literally).

You need, at a bare minimum, a description of the place. And there is a MASSIVE chance you will not get there. Yes, given infinite time, players can do this. What if they're running on a time limit?
Nah, a few times of casting the spell once each with a simulacra from the chain and the odds show that eventually you'll succeed.

Again, Feature. It's a once per day guarantee of success. At level 20. If your games can be broken by ONE success, you might want to modify your game a little.
combined with everything else like no rolling under 9 (on the dice), double proficiency bonus, etc...etc... you end up with the only class (other than Bard) that can pretty much auto-succeed at most hard skill checks and then pull off the 'nearly impossible' when it rarely shows up in the game.

At level 20, I would assume. (If I am wrong, correct me, please.) That won't kill: Most Adult Dragons, Balors, Pit Fiends, the Tarrasque, Iron Golems, Krakens... Use tougher BBEG if you're worried about getting them one-shot, or use Shield Guardians on weaker ones.
They can do it much earlier. They can do enough damage to take out most BBEGs once a day at any given level once they get smite.

"Borrowed from a monster entry." As in already written into the game. How is that a house rule?
First it applies to Lycanthropes. Second it notes that it happens because of an alignment change which doesn't happen with True Polymorph. So yes, it is clearly a house rule.

Good job! You used a spell to overcome a challenge! How is that not working as intended?

More than that, you need to cross a giant chasm. Unless there's a Roc nearby, Animal Friendship won't do much. (But, you say, you could have a hawk fly a rope across! But that can also be achieved by a bow and arrow, a much cheaper resource.)
Have you seen the stats on animals? They can all attempt perception checks and keep watch. Never surprised, never fail a perception check that smell can help. Pretty much any check can be overcome with the right animal. Need a door smashed? bear. Need a pit jumped? any of the great cats. Need to retrieve something that you can't reach? flying snake.


No, it requires a living world. That's not a houserule, that's a realistic consequence in most game settings.
That's not a living world. That's a DM papering over some really broken stuff. I wouldn't pay for a game that I would have to this for. I also would avoid DMing because I want to spend my DM time making adventures and depicting a living world that doesn't specifically counter the players.
I get what you are saying, but that is only one of the many play styles. The game doesn't work for other play styles.

Anytime the DM has to specifically counter a players actions in an unrealistic manner such as having clones destroyed all the time when they are hidden in an unreachable secret place immune to scrying the game is broken.

DMing is handling the corner case, not having an arms race with casters. We learned that in 3.x.

Three things: One, point to the part of the stat block that says "This creature originates from X plane". There isn't any.
"Celestials are creatures native to the Upper Planes. Many of them are the servants of deities, employed as messengers or agents in the mortal realm and throughout the planes. Celestials are good by nature, so the exceptional celestial who strays from a good alignment is a horrifying rarity. Celestials include angels, couatls, and pegasi."

Oh look, if we turn it into a celestial, we can banish it. Other extra-planar creature types have similar descriptions from the MM.

Two, it also requires two failed saves. What with legendary resistance on the truly tough monsters, that ain't likely.
Every BBEG in the game isn't a legendary or has legendary resistance. Even then casting other spells first to soften it up is a viable strategy.

Oh, and point three: If you fail to Banish them after you TP them, you just gave them extra HP.
Actually the caster just stops concentrating and it returns to normal form:
"You can end concentration at any time (no action required)."

Most DMs here. People here are kinda crazy on optimizing (myself included). Like I said, the math shows it holds up pretty dang well in featless campaigns (and people do run featless campaigns-just not many on these threads).
Yes, people run featless campaigns and those game are a little more balanced (but not much). Other DMs run campaigns using feats and in those games feats can be a problem.

Wish is powerful, yes. The last point is something I'll concede-that should have a duration. Everything else, though, is Wish working as intended.
Everything on there is extremely broken. Once a day you can cast a spell that costs a fortune or requires some insanely long casting time, you know, the things meant to limit those spells use.

53% chance their Teleport goes awry, assuming you count them as having seen it casually. Now raise that to the power of seven for the chances of them Teleporting successfully that many times.
How would the BBEG see it? Its warded against scrying, its deep underground with no entrances or exits. That means a 26% chance if they somehow manage to get a description.

And why didn't the bad guys pick up their weapons and gear?
Because they have about a round to act. That's about 6 seconds before the naked reinforcements arrive still dripping clone fluid.

I conceded Contagion and Creation to you. It's clear RAI, but I'm counting them as house-rules.

For the Create Undead bit, again, living world, not house-rules.
Living world = DMs trying to counter casters with scenarios that become more and more unbelievable. I mean you find the players clone lab once maybe with a super clever Moriarty BBEG, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th times the players are going to be looking at you with unbelief. When the players never find piles of bones or are unable to dig them up themselves or unable to find corpses (no seriously in your world creatures just disappear when they die like in a video game?)

You know, like set an ambush up at the base of the Rope Trick. Or lock all the doors leaving the room. Or instill a time limit (the gate closes in 4 hours! You have till then to get there).
They have a window they look through so they see the ambush coming (and that's if the creatures magically find the entrance which is invisible 9 feet in the air). Yes you can lock the door but the Wizard/Rogue is only going to open a lock and be on their merry way. You can put time limits on everything if you want, but that's just another thing I don't want to have to do as a DM.

"They're trying to kill you"-so they pepper you with ranged attacks and DO NOT follow you in to the highly suspicious looking portal. It'll work on dumb enemies-not smart ones.
Around the corner? It'll work on most enemies that are in the heat of battle and think you are about to get away.

"You charmed them"-"Hey buddy, take a nap, why don't you?" And then everybody crits him to death because he's asleep. If you managed to charm them that well, they're dead anyway.
Yes, because "I bought you a cake and its in that room over there." is mind control

"Shoving them in"-Requires some pretty good positioning and teamwork. If done successfully, then yeah, it was a fight and you won. Working as intended, just with a clever finisher.
Moving creatures around is actually pretty easy in 5e. Even then it avoids tons of difficult encounters that would potentially take a lot of resources and its once per day.

"Its a lich? Hmmm ok time for demi-plane. Thunderwave and vine whip it next to the door then push it in. I'll ready an action to close the door and cast arcane lock."

I'm sorry, this place needs the 16 Keys of Altoroth spread across the entire multiverse, and the door is totally immune to magic and mundane ways of destruction. Why is it so far-fetched that a 13th level Cleric spent 1,000 GP and a month of his life Forbidding it?
Its not just the super door. Its any plot related door in adventures above 7th level.

The same Teleport trick you mentioned earlier. First you could use it, now you can't. Make up your mind, please.
They can't use it because they don't have any information about it. If they manage to find a description somewhere (drunk barbarian bragging perhaps?) they have a 26% chance getting there.

I'd like to see some actual numbers on that. There's quite a bit of Huge+ creatures in the game. It's not that hard to make anyone important big (make your campaign about hunting dragons! Make the BBEG Wizard a Dracolich! Or a Giant with caster levels!) and mobs are pretty dang resistant to that.
Yes, because all campaigns are about giant+ sized dragons with caster levels with Moriarty level intellects from level 1.

So far the DM has to make everything have a time limit, and the only bosses you can use are 15'x15' or larger who hire extra-dimensional creatures to raid the players safe houses. This is sounding more and more like 3.x with each post.

And Imprisonment is both a 9th level spell (meaning you risk nearly killing yourself with Wish) and allows a saving throw (so Legendary Resistance makes it foolhardy to try on BBEG).
Nah, you just get your 3-5 simulacra to cast it repeatedly at the thing.

Geas does not work like that. It does damage to people, but not nearly enough to threaten anything CR 3 or greater. So yeah, you could snag a lot of CR 2 slaves with it... But you could also hire them with cash. Not game-breaking.
Wish [Geas] (touch me), Teleport.

Nice strawman you got there.
Its not a straw man. That's literally what you were suggesting. I mean the first time it happens, sure. After that it becomes unbelievable.

Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
You can do that, but it's technically not necessary. The rules explicitly say that the DM decides how the PCs acquire any magic items. Casting Creation, or any other spell, is not one of the RAW methods of getting magic items. There are treasure tables, and an optional crafting system, but nothing else.
Sorry, but unless you have a quote with a page number, I can't help you. The only things I see are that the DM controls buying and selling of magic items and whether to use the tables to generate magic items as part of treasure. I see nothing about the DM disallowing magic items created by spells.