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Thread: Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016

    Default Re: Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteNutButter View Post
    Thanks everyone for all the positive feedback. I'd love to add more build ideas into each individual entry. So please keep them coming!
    Spoiler: EK/Paladin?
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    I can edit the wording to include that, but I'm not sure it justifies changing any colors. It seems like a niche build that would probably come on line pretty late. It can't do anything a paladin/fighter does better/more frequently until level 13 when he can have both smite and 3 attacks. I see EK/Paladin as significantly more viable when combined with some full caster to round out the spell slots. What does the community think?

    Spoiler: Monk Ideas
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    Thank you for your input, and I'd love to incorporate these all into the comments. I'll freely admit that certain classes haven't seen much play in my groups, making most of my decisions based purely on theory crafting, monk being one of them. But let's dissect your creative, fun, and MAD monk ideas.

    Monk/Wizard: I greatly refute that wizard is the best class for a gish. IMO it will always be sorcerer with access to pretty much all the same spells, but the ability to swing and still buff in the same round with quicken, or twin things like haste. Bladesinger is a good way to add AC to anything, but is it worth the MADness? The loss of con really hurts a d8 hit die class that tends to be in melee, and +2 AC isn't anything to write home about. You are also doubling up on extra attack. The headband of int can't be considered as any build could be viable if a character had a bunch of 19s. What you end up with is an AC that is comparable to any other front liner, when bladesinging, and a still low AC when not. As long as this character is boosting dex his AC is the same as a standard wizard with mage armor on. I'm sure the build operates just fine, especially with an item giving a free 19, but it is definitely niche.

    Monk/Warlock: For starters I'd probably never leave monk just two levels shy of Diamond Soul. You mention wanting to pick up resilient con, why not just take diamond soul and get all saves? Admittedly it does come rather late. As mentioned in the guide the Monk, doesn't do the darkness/Devil's Sight combo any better than any other class. It still takes an action to work, still doesn't always work, and still can alienate the team. The fact that advantage and disadvantage cancel out is moot point if your DM adjudicates that you can't attack what you can't see. Your party should essentially be picking a 5' square they think the foe is in based likely on perception, and attempt to attack there. A foe who does any movement should be very hard to pinpoint in the fray of battle with total blindness. In the meantime you'll have less AC and hit points than a standard monk, and until you pickup warlock, no benefit. The imp thing is a good idea. This does work, I just don't think its optimal.

    Monk/Pal/Sorc: This one seems to just be a sorcerer/paladin that threw monk in because the player liked monk. I mean the competition for bonus action gets pretty heavy with all the monk's existing options and now quicken spells. Quickened and twinned GFB/BB are great on a sorcerer paladin as ways to get a bonus action attack, and a way to imitate extra attack on separate foes. On a monk the, quickening a GFB will often deal less damage than using flurry. The only thing I see this build offering is a bit more mobility, and stunning strikes with a low DC. AC and hit points are lower than a paladin/sorcerer. It lacks the amazing saves of aura of protection, and has some very difficult progression between the 3 classes. It could be viable, but definitely a niche build.

    Unless the community disagrees with me, I don't think these call for any changing colors. But please keep the ideas flowing.
    So, just to refute some of your refutations!

    Monk/Wizard.
    The sorcerer certainly doesn't get nearly all the spells a wizard gets, not even close, and wizard can make a far better gish because of this (especially with a wizard subclass designed for gishing, Bladesinging). Sorcerers don't get Fireshield which is probably the best buff for a gish ever (in no small part because it doesn't require concentration). Doubling up on Extra Attack is unavoidable with Bladesinger because you need to get to at least 7th level to get those great 4th level spells like Fireshield.
    Having +2 AC is never something to sneeze at in 5e, either. If this were the case, no one would ever use shields.

    Monk/Warlock
    You talk about not wanting a monk to be two levels shy of Diamond Soul, and I get that but most likely you are never ever getting to level 14 monk in a multiclass build. Why? Because, first of all, you are not going all 14 levels of monk before you take your other multiclass levels of warlock (or whatever) and because of this, you literally would have to hit level 20 to get to level 14 monk. I've never met anyone with a level 20 character in 5e, certainly none of the officially released adventures or material supports it, so we are talking about a hypothetical level that would be great to get to, but we simply aren't going to get to.

    I've got a single class Open Hand Monk that I would love to get to level 17 for Quivering Palm, don't know if I will ever be able to get him there, though. That's the problem you always have to consider, "sure I would like to get this high level feature, but will I ever realistically get there? Probably not." THAT'S why I recommend putting Resilient Con on a character such as this monk/warlock, because it's something that can benefit the character through much of his adventuring life, not waiting for a 14th level monk ability that he's never going to see because he's never going to get to 20th level to pick it up.

    Also, if you have a DM that equates Darkness or the Invisible condition with being "hidden" then you have a bad DM who doesn't understand the rules. It does not equate with being hidden and you have to take the Hide action while invisible or in darkness to actually be hidden. A good spell and strategy like using Darkness cannot be dismissed because of a DM that doesn't understand the rules.

    On my monk/paladin/sorcerer build, I plead guilty as charged. I just wanted to make a monk that could do divine smites. So sue me!
    Last edited by Fflewddur Fflam; 2016-10-01 at 03:42 PM.