1. - Top - End - #450
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: First time DMing and already killed a character.

    As a researcher into the theological and scientific and paranormal nature of the omniverse I find the statements about Snuggles the overgod cat to be unlikely or at least innacurate.

    First there is the issue of the stats for Snuggles. While it is clear that an ancient death cat exists(see below) the stats that have appeared so far are lacking. Surely overgods would not limit themselves to just the core rules.

    A mere 60 hit dice the limit for the gods as per the Dieties and Demigods book is a laugh. Surely the demons of the abyss wuld have overthrown pantheons that weak.

    The Open Game Liscense provides a much better source, The Immortals Handbook Ascension. Surely this pantheon if the statements are accurate would have at least 999 hit dice for its weakest member. Thus Snuggles do to his nature as the bringer of doom is likely to be at least a High Lord.


    Ah yes my appologize. I should explain what a High Lord is. Worlds(Worlds in this case meaning universes) are created when the Monads which the books refer to as Time Lords. Worlds are made when timelords have there manifestastions shattered causing the creasion of Elder Ones, Old Ones, and First Ones. Elder Ones being the living embodiments of planar layers(thus the Gaping Maw the domain of Demogorgon is an Elder One), Old Ones being the embodiments of planes(Yes the Abyss is truely a living being), and the First Ones are the embodiments of dimmensions( thus the Outer Planes are a First One).

    Then there are the Demiurges. Spirits born from the Time Lords death that devour the One's claiming control of their domains in the process until they become a new Time Lord.

    How does this concern Snuggles and the cat pantheon(assuming it is not Snuggles in another form)?

    As it has been said in the Bhagavad Gita(which does exist even in this setting since Earth or at least a similar world is cannonical in D&D. An interesting Paradox but that is besides the point),

    ‘‘The Blessed Lord said: I am the inflamed Time (Death), the destroyer of the worlds. I have come to destroy all these people. Even without you, allthose warriors arrayed in the opposing armies shall be slain.’’ 11:32

    This Blessed Lord is believed by the Hindu's to be a being known as Krishna. However this is likely to be a mistake(or Krishna is an aspect of Snuggles) since this passage is self evidently the work of Snuggles. From the underlined we get, "I am Death, the destroyer of worlds. I have come to destroy all. All shall be slain."

    If that is not Snuggles than the Platypus is not an abomination and surely you can't say that the platypus is normal.

    To get back on point Snuggles is Death. Not the little Death that we mortals believe to be innevitable(which is unlikely in a world where comming back from the dead can be acchieved by anyone with 100,000 to 1,000,000 dollars or 5,000 gp(the exchange rates are rather uncertain) but rather the End of Times the True Death.

    A High Lord is a being that grows in power by consuming Time Lords. Surely than Snuggles is likely to be a High Lord. This brings into question the nature of Snuggles.

    Many theorise that Snuggles is evil but I find it to be that that label is simply do to human inability to comprehend things. Death is necessary on a global level. Were the lions not to kill the zebra the grass could not live. If the grass could not live the zebra could not live. If the zebra could not live the lions could not live. Every being alive is the death of millions of other beings. Yet we do not call this cycle evil we simply call it nature. Surely such as a cycle would exist on higher levels as well.

    According to scientific theories a universe will either be destroyed in a Phoenix like explosion where a new one will be born or it will die a cold and icy death where the darkness known as blackholes will form creating primal matter that would start more worlds. This may not be accurate but the concept exists in this example as well as the creation of worlds from the death of Time Lords.

    As another occult researcher said "Life begets death. Death begets life. Chaos is the fuel of creation."

    Perhaps than Snuggles destruction is simply a necessary act for the omniverse. As he destroys the worlds new worlds are formed from the deaths. Thus he might devour a time lord but leave the shell to form a new universe. As it has been said by Galactus another likely aspect of Snuggles.

    "Who is the greater evil? I the devourer of worlds that have run there course or you who would deny existance to generations of the future?"

    Since such a cycle does exist and is necessary for the continuation of life and Snuggles is the death of universes it is unlikely that he would be 'evil'. For he could simply wait and watch as the worlds get driven to stagnattion and begin to rot from deep within unitil the omniverse is no more. Yet instead he brings forth the destruction that would allow for new creation.

    Am I calling Snuggles good? Hell no. Niether lawful for that matter. Chaotic Neutral or true neutral would be the most likely however there is another possiblity.

    These are many abilities in the tomb known as Immortals Handbook Ascension that I believe Snuggles is likely to have. And the other cats too unless the Snugglites are correct in the theory that they are all Snuggles

    1. The ability to transcend allignment (Which would make Snuggles allignment not evil but rather "Hopefully if its your time to be destroyed its your time and not just several of your bones and an arms time with the rest of your time being a few weeks later")
    2. The ability to transverse time and space at its whim
    3. Infinite stregnth, dextirity, and constitution.
    4. The ability to instantly heal to full health
    5. The ability to transcend death completely(except for one being in some cases). In Snuggles case(if he has that drawback) this one being is of course a Snuggles from the past or the future that would absorb his power thus ensuring that Snuggles gains his power so that he can maintain the balance of reality)
    6. Knowledge of all magic
    7. The ability to create life
    8. The ability to erase things from existance
    9. The ability to read the Dungeon Masters notes and plans for the adventure.
    (The book really has that. Technically no sane DM would allow it but it fits with Snuggles theme.)

    Also if there is only Snuggles or only Cat or only Primordial Cat or only something else than this ability would likely also be one that the being would have
    10. The ability to create alernate lives. A sort of ability to transfrom from one character to another.

    As for the question of Fluffy well. There is believed to be the existance of something called a Supreme Being. Many believe this being to be the Dungeon Master who decrees the fate of all worlds. That fate of course being for them to be in everlasting strife until Snuggles devoures them. However the fact that this DM never acts with out invoking Snuggles power signifies that this positions rank is slightly exagerated and mostly ceremonial. More of an advisor than a ruler.

    This Advisor is of course Fluffy who retired from maintaining reality when Snuggles was manifest.

    Doesn't this fact prove the Snugglites wrong since its stating that there are other cats? Surely not. Even cats that are not overdieties have the power of paradox. Fluffy could simply be an incarnation that Snuggles sent into the past so that Snuggles could gain full access to the knowledge of future Snuggles'es.

    I mean he's a cat if he can be dead and alive at the same time without being undead he can probably be first while being the second.

    My theories on Snuggles nature are done. Still there are two issues in this cat versus dog conflict that bothers me. Foxes and wolves.

    Foxes exhibit many of the same traits as cats. They are both solitary creatures, they both feast on rodents, fish, and birds, and they both hunt by pouncing. The house cat is better equiped for this but other than its basically canine appearance the fox is basically a slightly weaker version of a cat. So far only one species of foxes serve human the silver fox(although Russia kind of sucks climate wise so we might be able to excuse them for that. We don't have to but we might be able to). Yet other than his species foxes like cats refuse to serve humans.

    Yet they are too similar to cats for it simply be a coincidence and they are too unlike dogs to be spies. Their hunting habbits imply that they learned there stratagies from the cats. If the foxes were the enemies why would the cats have either taught them or allowed them to survive long enough to copy their techniques?

    As for wolves who bare a sever resemblance to dogs. It must be remembered that dogs were created by humans from the weakest and most worthless of the wolves. A de-evolution of sorts like the transformation of the elves into drow or the angels that became demons for example. Scientists have dicovered that all dogs are descendants of a mere three female wolves.

    Now while the idea of wolves not being identical to dogs might be discomforting there are a few things. First off dogs paws are slightly different from those of a wolf (such a change is likely a curse on those fallen wolves), second the wolves like the foxes have been known to use pouncing, their diet also include some similar foods, wolves also refuse to open their eyes at birth just like a kitten does, there are rare but recorded cases of canniblism ammong wolves(perhaps there attempt to keep the flawed members of there kind from attempting to copy the dogs. After all why would an apex predator want to have the shame of being kin so someone that would stoop to such a pitiful state?), they have the same sadism as cats(can kill 21 deer and only eat 2), also unlike dogs they have been known to devour humans in some cases, and wolves howling is based on the moon.

    Wolves howl most then the moon is arround and howling is what they use to keep the pack together. Take a look at the moon. What does it resemble? The phases resemble the eye of a cat. If wolves were the same as dogs why would they gather under the symbol of a cats gaze?

    So I leave this question to the rest of you. Wolves and foxes are they abominations or simply more servants of the house cats that simply had some weaker members that had to be rooted out?

    While I leave the question for the cat worshipers I would like to point out that if wolves and foxes are not abomination that would make the dogs even more pitiful than they already are.
    Last edited by Infernal Undead; 2008-12-01 at 02:28 AM.