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Thread: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

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    DragoonWraith's Avatar

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Spells: Good point on the saves and X against law. Saves aren't as important for grease and glitterdust as they are for charm monster, because you get repeat tries on the first two and they tend to be against groups of weaker monsters. Ok go spell focus (enchantment) and keep the law spells.
    Since I can't ditch them now (not getting Sorcerer levels), I figure I only want a single against Law spell. I currently have a bunch of Protection against Law scrolls, which can probably do me until I can get Magic Circle against myself. My level 3 spells are Arcane Eyes (need for Loremaster), Haste, Fly, and Dispel Magic. Even in this situation, I'm not sure Magic Circle against Law is necessarily what I'd want...

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    If you face archers every day then you can keep wind wall on your list instead of on scroll(s). It does consume a combat action though (something you want to avoid when possible), and you could also try scrolls of protection from arrows (for non-magical arrows) or gloves of arrow snatching. Heroism is nice b/c you can cast it in the morning but I'm not a big fan of greater heroism because the lower duration prevents this. Even so, if you have a buffing round and you're already done with the good spells like haste, you can dedicate that to greater heroism. Just don't spend a combat round on it; even direct damage will hurt baddies a lot more.
    Wind Wall replaced with Dispel Magic and/or Arcane Eyes (and/or Magic Circle against Law); Greater Heroism replaced with ... not sure. Could get Greater Dispel Magic and replace Dispel Magic with Magic Circle against Law. Could get Geas, which seems amusing, but it's not that great in combat (?). I could take Contingency but I'll be able to Shadow that a level later. There's the ever-popular Anti-Magic Field... but again, I don't see the point of it when it's centered around me. Acid Fog is very good but I already have Solid Fog; I could lose Solid Fog but that would be 5 more levels without either. Mislead could be nice for escaping, and Permanent Image may be useful - though Project Image seems much better and I'd get that 2 levels later. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and it has to be Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, or Evocation, or I can't qualify for Archmage (need 5th or better level spells from five schools; already have Shadow Evocation [Illus], Teleport [Trans], Magic Jar [Necro], and Mass Suggestion [Ench] at that point). So that eliminates Geas... and Greater Heroism, for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Loremaster: While loremaster doesn't technically say you can't take druid as your language, I think it's implied in the system that no non-druid can learn druid. And whichever druid you learn the language from or whoever slips you a written guide (how he has time to write one unnoticed, I dunno), would be barred from druidism. The 5 ranks in history to get +2 to lore must be ranks; feats and other bonuses don't count. The same goes for pre-requisites for prestige classes; that number is the number of ranks you must have not your total modifier.
    Oh, I know they must be ranks. I wouldn't be having so much trouble, otherwise. As for Druidic, I'll ask the DM when the time comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    skills: You can read the skill descriptions and find the DCs so you can get enough of each one. To boost your cha skills, try a circlet of persuasion to get a +3 for only 4500 gp.
    Yup, going to.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Yes, staying in back so you don't even have to make a concentration check to cast defensively is ideal when you can. And remember there are no natural 1's on skill checks.
    Key there is "when I can". I guess there's no way to know how often I will be forced to put myself in danger of losing concentration, but it makes it very hard to know how much of the skill is worth getting. Never failing a check is awesome - unless you only get checked once in a blue moon. If I have to pass the check several times a day, then I don't want to fail it often at all. Etc.

    But at level 7 I can Fly. Oh.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    If you're gonna focus on anything like counterspelling then ya try to get spellcraft as high as possible or high enough for auto-success if you can.
    Yes... but what is "high enough for auto-success"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Otherwise skills should be a secondary priority, since they're severely limited in scope (times you can use them). And be sure to use skills only according to their scope; bluff only for telling lies, for example. Otherwise you get stupid game stuff like "He's acting like a chicken b/c I told him he was one, look at him peck." No... he just believes you're telling the truth, and that you're probably crazy or else you have a long awaken animal + polymorph story to tell him why he's human now.
    Ah, I have no intention of being a **** about it. Plus, ya know, the DM is not the kind of guy who would go for that.

    Though my entrance into the story was appearing in the mad Halfling's spaghetti (spell back-fire during a time warp since the characters were essentially sitting around waiting for the Drow to brew his sleepyjuice), and I'm currently attempting to bluff (in Undercommon) that I am a spaghetti genie and that I'll grant them three wishes. Mostly because it amused me to say it; the character's just trying to buy time while he figures out what the hell happened and how he can get away from (among other things) the mad Halfling with a too-large spiked chain, a Drow in the middle of coating his arrows with poison, and a very, very large wolf...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Um, I'd go with Knowledge Planes as your 2nd Knowledge skill. Outsiders tend to have a lot of wonky resistances, immunities, and special abilities, so learning about them is pretty important. Local is kinda buggy, since you only learn about the base creature type. For example, if you encountered a level 20 orc wizard and a level 20 orc fighter and you rolled Knowledge Local on both, you would get the same info. Orcs are strong, have darkvision and light sensativity, etc. There just isn't a lot to know about them. Whereas if you did a Knowledge Planes check on a Nalfeshnee, you might learn that it has a Stench ability, Lightning Immunity, Blasphemy as a spell-like, and the ability to gate in more demons. Thats much more useful than learning that orcs have darkvision.
    Aha, ok then. Cool, I kind of wanted to take Planes anyway, just because I want to know about them, heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Knowledge Local has a lot of other RP aspects (such as finding out if the duke has a daughter, or learning about the debts a certain merchant family may have) but that can also be obtained by a Lore check, so it may not be a huge issue if you don't have many ranks in it. Another good idea, especially when you get your loremaster levels, would be to drop 1 rank in ALL knowledge skills. Knowledge skills are trained only, so you can only roll if you have at least 1 rank. Who knows, you may roll high.
    Will attempt to do so. Probably also going to stick another 4 in History.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    UMD is great. Its probably the best skill in the game. Seriously. Its also on the Loremaster skill list, so use those levels to drop as many points into it as possible.
    Fully intend to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Really, as a sorcerer, with Cha focus instead Int, its hard to get all the skills you need. I'd keep one social skill maxed (Bluff is a class skill for sorcs), along with Concentration. Then put some points in knowledges to qualify for Loremaster and in Spellcraft to qualify for Archmage. Other than that, keep UMD up and you should be good.
    OK, sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Also, don't forget your +5 ability points over 20 levels that you'll be putting in Cha, and probably your +6 Cha cloak at some point, and maybe even a Wish or 2 if you are lucky. Those all factor into your skill checks as well!
    Yup, I know it. Should I dump all my extra points into Cha then? I get 7, by the way - Human Paragon 3 comes with 2 bonus points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Also, Sense Motive is only a class skill for a select few classes. Most monsters and most NPCs won't have very many, if any, ranks in it. Your biggest issue would be pulling a fast one on Rogues, Bards, Clerics, and Paladins, although Clerics and Paladins don't have a ton of skill points to be throwing around anyway so they probably won't be much of an issue unless the NPC is a high level cleric judge or lawyer or something...
    Very good to know. Cool. My own Sense Motive is limited to as high as I can get it during Human Paragon, since it's the only time I'll have it as a class skill...

    By the way, we have a question about skills and multiclassing. The Human Paragon's Adaptive Learning special seems to imply that a class skill is only a class skill while you're leveling in that class (so after I stop leveling Sorc, I stop having Bluff as a Class Skill - unless I Adaptive Learn it, which I probably will). However, the online character sheet thingy we have doesn't seem to support "previously but not currently class skills". It's pretty well made in general, so now I'm questioning things. How does this work?
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-14 at 02:22 PM.