Quote Originally Posted by Dilb View Post
Do you have any links to builds which actually do so? I don't see how, for example, a spell allowing 1 critical hit a round with a bow is going to do more than 70 damage at very low levels.
I can't find any links at the moment, but here's a build off the top of my head: a generic fighter 2/rogue 6 (either a psionic race or human with Wild Talent) with +4 Str and Dex mods from items or race or whatever, with the PBS, Psionic Shot, Fell Shot, Psionic Meditation, and Craven feats, and with a +2 shocking mighty composite (+4) longbow, one or more scrolls of greater invisibility, and a wand of hunter's mercy deals (1d8+4d6+12)x3 damage per round, which works out to an average of 76 damage after DR (min 36, max 117) or 36 after DR + regen (min 0, max 77). With Fell Shot he's targeting the tarrasque's 5 touch AC, so there's no danger of him missing any time soon. Swift for the wand, move to regain focus, standard to fire, repeat.

All he has to do is keep plinking away and he'll have the tarrasque dead in an average of just over 2.5 minutes. That's without using more than a fraction of WBL, using common archery and rogue feats, and without undue optimization. If he's a level higher, he can pick up Telling Blow and no longer need the greater invisibility scrolls; if he wants to spend more WBL, he can add more damage enchantments/items to kill Big T faster. If I were to actually open my books and go through the good items and rogue feats to really optimize this, I'm sure I could kick this up a notch, and if I were to remove the rogue restriction and bring bloodstorm blade into this, it gets an order of magnitude easier.


But I really don't care if there are smarter ways of fighting the tarrasque. The point is the monk can fight it in accordance with the Marquess of Queensberry rules and has a good chance of coming out on top. It's a huge step up in power compared to a monk 19. Even if there are non-hitting ways of beating the monk, that's no reason to throw out balance for the hitting parts.
Why should fisticuffs be out of the question just because it's the tarrasque? Level 1 characters can go toe-to-toe with goblins; level 7 characters (think Hercules) can go toe-to-toe with hydrae; where's the magical cutoff where slugging it out according to Queensberry rules is suddenly not a good thing?

If you really must, imagine my super-duper homebrew creature: flying tarrasque. It flies, moves really really fast (10 000 feet per round, perfect manoeuvrability), and it can see you (+ a billion to spot, and blindsight, and it sees and hits things on the ethereal plane, and it can follow you through teleports and plane shifts and everything else, regardless of the time elapsed if it's busy), and it specifically wants to kill you and your party in particular. It's attacks and defences are exactly as strong as normal tarrasque. Does it seem reasonable that the monk can out-box it?
If you're giving it godlike powers, it doesn't make sense for anything to defeat it. At that point it's no longer a huge brute but rather an unstoppable hunter-killer machine, so all bets are off as to what seems "reasonable."

If you feel DR/20 is appropriate then a monk 19 is underpowered. I feel DR/20 is too much, and think monk 20 is overpowered. Either way, suddenly getting DR/20 is an anomalous jump.
I don't think suddenly giving DR with no precedent is necessarily a good capstone, and would support DR = level at some point (13th or thereabouts) so it caps at 20 but gets there gradually. I was only arguing against the notion that DR 20 is too good at that level; where it fits in with the rest of the monk is still up for debate.