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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Going Epic - what to do?

    I've got a level 17 Bard/Sublime Chord/Virtuoso, and I think we'll be hitting Epic fairly soon.I'm not sure if we'll be playing by the Epic rules or just sticking to the normal ones, and I'm pretty sure Epic spellcasting is out. I was considering going into Favoured Soul once I'd got level 9 casting (fits my concept better than Cleric) and then on into High Proselytizer. I'm trying to RP a growing devotion to Hlal, which when we get to high enough level is likely to culminate in proposing. Suggestions as to where to go from here?
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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Well, consider your character as-is right now. What is he good at? Casting. What's he bad at? What do you want him to be able to do?

    Personally, I'd stick with my guns. Going Favored Soul would lower your Caster Level with Bard. Let's say hypothetically you made it to level 30. Just 10 levels of Favored Soul means you've got 5th level cleric spells at a CL of 10 and 9th level wizard spells at a CL of 20. You aren't likely to hit anything with Spell Resistance.

    I'd personally go for PrC's that increase my versatility as a caster. Fatespinner, Holy Scourge, and Mindbender come to mind. That way you can keep up your ability to cast spells in case of monsters with SR (which if I remember correctly is far too common in the epic levels) while gaining new abilities.

    If you do decide to do something like Favored Soul, I would strongly advise Practiced Spellcaster feat and then go into Mystic Theurge asap.

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    ...your character is going to propose to a god? Unusual character goal, I must admit.
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Aye, most of the party are planning to become gods one way or another. Me? I'm planning to marry in.
    Favoured Soul I considered because High Proselytizer requires divine casting. If Epic spellcasting is out, is it worth taking "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" classes? Progression caps at 9th, no?

    Mindbender is out, I'm CG, and Mindbender requires non-good. I've never been hugely impressed, looking at the Fatespinner - the abilities seem to not be usable often enough to be useful. I don't know the Holy Scourge class at all though - what's that like?

    Actually, thinking about it - with the right domain choice, a level in Rainbow Servant would get me 5th level divine casting a whole lot faster than Favoured Soul. Might go that route.
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    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
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    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
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    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    My thoughts?
    You've got a mass of options at the moment, and the best thing you can do is find ways of expanding and easing those options.
    Stuff like swiftblade, war chanter, that class from heroes of battle that lets you "weave" spells, and other stuff that makes what you do either more interesting(War Weaver/chanter), or smoother(swiftblade).

    Rainbow Servant is also good.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Fatespinner is amazingly appropriate. It deals with making your own luck. Aren't you trying to get lucky with a goddess?

    Your progression does cap at 9th level. But the all-important "caster level" does not. To me, even if I'm stuck with 9th level spells, I'm still raising up my caster level so I continue to remain effective in combat.

    Holy Scourge is from Complete Mage. It's basically the paladin of wizards. It lets you Smite Evil with your spells. How cool is that? (LG not required if I am remembering correctly).

    Another thing, if epic spellcasting is out, see if your DM will allow the feat that increases your max spell level by 1. Basically, the first time you take it you can cast 10th level spells. The next time, you get 11th level spells. And so on. Someone with a better memory than myself can tell you the name of that feat.

    If you want to be a bit more martial, Abjurant Champion is a good PrC. Archmages are also a good choice.

    Rainbow Servant is one of my favorite PrC's. I prefer to take it with Warmage or Beguiler, however. It would still be decent, and most importantly, not gimp your Caster Level too much. Practiced Spellcaster can take care of the losses in caster level.

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    First make sure that your DM is actually banning Epic spells and not just limiting them. Second make sure that your DM knows your long term character goal since impressing a goddess is sort of the thing one needs to work into the plot (bigtime, gift wrapping kingdoms/artifacts/other stuff that gods even blink at is tough )

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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Rats, Rainbow Servant is a no-go. It requires non-chaotic alignment. Means it'll be harder to get into High Proselytizer. Aside from Ur-Priest, what's the fastest way to get 5th level divine casting?

    My DM does indeed know my long-term goal. Working it into the plot won't really be a problem, it's fairly sandbox. We've already been to see Bahamut in his throne room, got his autograph, and invited him to a sushi meet. He showed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
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    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Okay, turns out I was wrong. Epic rules and spellcasting are in fact in. With that in mind, what should I do? My current plan is to dip Marshal (I have 36 CHA) then run through Warchanter before I start looking at the actual epic prestige classes. I might also hit Paladin of Freedom for +13 to all my saves.

    Also: Epic Spells. How i use dem best? The ones presented in the ELH suck.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2009-01-10 at 06:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

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    Epic_Wizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    ASAP (if your DM will allow it) craft a ring or other item that boosts your Spellcraft (or other casting skill since I only know the one for Wizards for sure) skill by the full amount you can afford or craft. This makes hitting those higher dice checks easier. Then start tinkering with the Epic Spell creation rules. Make sure you run stuff past your DM first though. The Epic spell rules are so easy to break (since you can do basically anything with them) that most DM's will require this at the very least.

    (oh yeah keep in mind that those x2 to spell area and (I believe range) multiply with each other as in that 'create island' spell)

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    more difficult is trying to go Epic in Star Wars. When power levels are adjusted to Yoda and the Emperor at 20th level, then balancing things out becomes difficult to say the least.
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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Were you suckered in (like me) with the favored souls ultimate image??

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    Since epic spellcasting is allowed, follow Epic_Wizards advice and get yourself the highest spellcraft bonus item you can. See if your DM will allow you to use the spellcraft checks with main spellcasting stat variant as well (this allows you to use Cha instead of Int for Epic Spellcasting spellcraft checks) to get your spellcraft check even higher. If you are still straining for a higher check, get Epic Skill Focus (spellcraft), though I don't recommend burning a feat on it.

    Also, since epic spells per day are based off of ranks in Knowledge(arcana/nature/religion), make sure to stay in classes that have Knowledge (arcana) as a class skill. If your DM will allow it, I'd suggest staying in a homebrewed epic Sublime Cord through your epic levels. You wouldn't get any new abilities, just the basic one feat per 3 levels epic spellcaster progression and +1 CL each level. Those bonus epic feats are really what you want since there are so many good feats for spellcasters.

    For normal spells, I'd recommend getting both Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Metamagic to allow metamagic on higher-end spells. If you don't mind wasting a feat on Quicken Spell, Multispell is very nice for high level epic casters, especially when coupled with the Automatic Quicken Spell feats. Spell Knowledge is a must if you wish to increase your spell list, since you don't learn additional spells after 20th level and Sublime Cords don't know very many high level spells. The Metamagic feats Intensify and Enhance Spell are decent if you want to play a blaster type or for any spells with variables. Epic Heighten Spell can let you use your high level spell slots for save or suck spells.

    Some of the epic bard feats are quite good, you might look into them as well.
    Last edited by Battleship789; 2009-01-11 at 10:06 PM.

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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    I was planning to hit up a few levels of Marshal for Motivate Charisma, Motivate Dexterity, and, crucially for epic casting, Motivate Intelligence. I also would quite like to go through Warchanter, it's got quite a lot to offer a buffmonkey even if it does lack casting progression.
    As for epic progressions for classes, the only class I'll be close to finishing is virtuoso,so it would have to be epic virtuoso rather than epic sublime chord.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
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    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Going Epic - what to do?

    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry

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