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    Default [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    Golradirís Persuasive Performer Spells

    Common Theme: Musical Theatre
    For those of you not familiar with the genre of musical theatre, characters often use song to express major emotions or thoughts. Sometimes, these songs are used where characters are attempting to be persuasive. I was thinking in particular of a show called How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. In the final scene, the protagonist is about to be fired, but, thanks to a stirring gospel number, which involves the entire boardroom in a song and dance routine, finds himself promoted to chairman of the board, married to the woman he loves, and getting his arch-nemesis fired. Thus, in the spirit of musical theatre (and the fact that Bards never get any respect in the first place). Thus, I have developed a series of spells that Bards can use to make their Perform skills bolster their diplomacy skills. A bit munchkinish, as these are two of the Bardís primary strengths, but I doubt anyone in their right mind would ever use these spells. They pretty much kill any sort of mood or verisimilitude any campaign would have.

    Background:
    Golradir Nevlonde was a bard who was less charismatic than most. Many told him he really ought to have been a wizard, since he seemed more gifted at magic and spells than at entertaining or persuading people. But he never felt more at home than when he was performing, so, as hard as it was, he pursued his calling. Still, he found that his limited powers of persuasion were less then exemplary. Most magic users in this position would simply have used a spell like Eagleís Splendor to aid them, Golradir had an idea. He knew that in many operas and musical plays he had participated in involved the characters persuading others through song. Inspired, he began working on a way to use magic to make his performance skills help him in the art of persuasion.

    Featured Moment
    School: Enchantment (Charm)
    Level: Bard 0
    Components: Verbal
    Casting Time: Standard Action
    Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 caster levels)
    Target: Single Creature
    Duration: 1 Minute
    Saving Throw: Special (Will)
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 15) using an instrument of his choice. This Perform check does not allow the use of any modifiers due to Charisma, feats, spells, items, or other bonuses. Only the Perform ranks alone may contribute to this roll.

    Upon completion of casting, the target must make a Will save (DC = 10 + X, where X = Perform check - 15). Once this save is failed, the caster gains a +1 bonus to all Charisma-based checks against the target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    If the caster fails his initial Perform check, or the target succeeds at his Will save, the caster incurs a -1 penalty to all Charisma-based checks agains the target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Verse, or Aria may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure, with all associated penalties, is automatic.

    For a target to be affected by this spell, he must be able to percieve the performance and understand any language involved.

    For example, a blind character cannot be affected by this spell at all if the caster chooses to dance. If the caster chooses to sing or speak, the target must be able to understand the language. If the target cannot be affected for one of these reasons, the spell is used up, but does not incur benefits or penalties.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. Targeting any of the following types of creatures will use up the spell, but will not incur benefits or penalites: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Verse
    School: Enchantment (Charm)
    Level: Bard 1
    Components: Verbal
    Casting Time: Full-Round Action
    Range: Close (25 ft + 5ft/2 caster levels)
    Target: Up to 10 Creatures (caster's choice) within Range.
    Duration: 6 minutes
    Saving Throw: Special (Will)
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    Before casting this spell, the caster may specify any targets he wishes to leave unaffected.

    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 20) using an instrument of his choice. This Perform check does not allow the use of any modifiers due to Charisma, feats, spells, items, or other bonuses. Only the Perform ranks alone may contribute to this roll.

    Upon completion of casting, the caster spends one minute Performing, after which the targets must each make a Will save (DC = 15 + X, where X = Perform check - 20). Once this save is failed, the caster gains a +3 bonus to all Charisma-based checks against that target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    If the caster fails his initial Perform check, or a target succeeds at his Will save, the caster incurs a -3 penalty to all Charisma-based checks agains that target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Featured Moment, or Aria may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure, with all associated penalties, is automatic.

    For a target to be affected by this spell, he must be able to percieve the performance and understand any language involved.

    For example, a blind character cannot be affected by this spell at all if the caster chooses to dance. If the caster chooses to sing or speak, the target must be able to understand the language. If a target cannot be affected for one of these reasons, the spell is used up, but does not incur benefits or penalties.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. Targeting any of the following types of creatures will use up the spell, but will not incur benefits or penalites: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

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    Aria
    School: Enchantment (Charm)
    Level: Bard 2
    Components: Verbal
    Casting Time: Full-Round Action
    Range: Close (25 ft + 5ft/2 caster levels)
    Target: All Creatures within Range
    Duration: 12 Minutes
    Saving Throw: Special (Will)
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    Before casting this spell, the caster may specify any targets he wishes to leave unaffected.

    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 25) using an instrument of his choice. This Perform check does not allow the use of any modifiers due to Charisma, feats, spells, items, or other bonuses. Only the Perform ranks alone may contribute to this roll.

    Upon completion of casting, the caster spends two minutes Performing, after which the targets must each make a Will save (DC = 20 + X, where X = Perform check - 25). Once this save is failed, the caster gains a +5 bonus to all Charisma-based checks against that target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    If the caster fails his initial Perform check, or a target succeeds at his Will save, the caster incurs a -5 penalty to all Charisma-based checks agains that target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Featured Moment, or Verse may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure, with all associated penalties, is automatic.

    For a target to be affected by this spell, he must be able to percieve the performance and understand any language involved.

    For example, a blind character cannot be affected by this spell at all if the caster chooses to dance. If the caster chooses to sing or speak, the target must be able to understand the language. If a target cannot be affected for one of these reasons, the spell is used up, but does not incur benefits or penalties.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. Targeting any of the following types of creatures will use up the spell, but will not incur benefits or penalites: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Duet
    School: Enchantment (Compulsion)
    Level: Bard 3
    Components: Verbal, Somatic
    Casting Time: 5 Rounds
    Range: Touch
    Target: Single Creature
    Duration: 13 Minutes
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 30) using an instrument of his choice. All normal modifiers apply. If this check is failed, the spell dissipates uselessly.

    Upon completion of casting and a successful touch attack, the target must make a Will save (DC = 15 + X, where X = Perform check - 30). Success renders the spell ineffective. Failure brings the target under the direct control of the caster for 3 minutes. During this time, the target and the caster perform a duet together. The target does not need ranks in Perform, but will contribute in any way he is able, such as clapping or rythmic speaking. Both the target and the caster must maintain Concentration while Performing, or the spell ends immediately.

    During the Duet, the caster and his target will sing, act out, or otherwise indicate a plan they will enact. Once the Duet is completed, the target is once again capable of independent thought and action, but will willingly enact whatever plan was detailed in the Duet, until the spell's duration expires. Thoughts and actions unrelated the plan are not affected. If the target takes damage while still under the effects of Duet, it provokes a concentration Check. If this check is failed, the spell is immediately ended.

    Once the spell is ended, the target retains a full memory of his activities and experiences while under the influence of the spell, but is completely free of any direct effects of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Chorus, Ensemble, or Eleven O'Clock Number may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure is automatic.

    Attempting to use this spell to induce behavior that grossly violates a target's moral, ethical, or personal principles or values, (such as forcing a Paladin to attack a child) or involves the target causing direct harm to itself (such as suicide or self mutilation) may provoke a new Will save or cause the spell to be broken for that target without a save, depending on the severity of the violation. This is implemented at the discretion of the Dungeon Master.

    If the caster uses a language-based Performing art, then a target that does not understand that language will be unaffected.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. They are: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Chorus
    School: Enchantment (Compulsion)
    Level: Bard 4
    Components: Verbal, Somatic
    Casting Time: 5 Rounds
    Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 caster levels)
    Target: All sentient creatures within Range
    Duration: 13 Minutes
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    Before casting this spell, the caster may specify any targets he wishes to leave unaffected.

    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 35) using an instrument of his choice. All normal modifiers apply. If this check is failed, the spell dissipates uselessly.

    Upon completion of casting, the targets must each make a Will save (DC = 20 + X, where X = Perform check - 35). Success renders the spell ineffective for that target. Failure brings that target under the direct control of the caster for 3 minutes. During this time, the affected targets and the caster perform as a group. The targets do not need ranks in Perform, but will contribute in any way they are able, such as clapping or rythmic speaking. Both the targets and the caster must maintain Concentration while Performing. If a target fails a Concentration check, he is freed from the spell. If the caster fails a Concentration check, the entire spell ends immediately. The targets recieve a +1 bonus per performer in the Chorus to any such Concentration checks.

    During the Chorus, the caster and his targets will sing, act out, or otherwise indicate a plan they will enact. Once the Chorus is completed, the targets are once again capable of independent thought and action, but will willingly enact whatever plan was detailed in the Chorus, until the spell's duration expires. Thoughts and actions unrelated the plan are not affected. If a target takes damage while still under the effects of Chorus, it provokes a Concentration Check, with a + 1 bonus per performer at the end of the Chorus. If this check is failed, the spell is immediately ended for that target.

    Once the spell is ended, the targets retais a full memory of their activities and experiences while under the influence of the spell, but are completely free of any direct effects of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Duet, Ensemble, or Eleven O'Clock Number may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure is automatic.

    Chorus can only give a single set of instructions to an entire group, and cannot single out individuals or smaller groups for different or extra instruction.

    Attempting to use this spell to induce behavior that grossly violates a target's moral, ethical, or personal principles or values, (such as forcing a Paladin to attack a child) or involves the target causing direct harm to himself (such as suicide or self-mutilation) may provoke a new Will save or cause the spell to be broken for that target without a save, depending on the severity of the violation. This is implemented at the discretion of the Dungeon Master.

    If the caster uses a language-based Performing art, then a target that does not understand that language will be unaffected.

    Targets of which the caster is unaware are not affected by this spell.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. They are: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Ensemble
    School: Enchantment (Compulsion)
    Level: Bard 5
    Components: Verbal, Somatic
    Casting Time: 5 rounds
    Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/caster level)
    Target: All sentient creatures within Range
    Duration: 13 Minutes
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    Before casting this spell, the caster may specify any targets he wishes to leave unaffected.

    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 40) using an instrument of his choice. All normal modifiers apply. If this check is failed, the spell dissipates uselessly.

    Upon completion of casting, the targets must each make a Will save (DC = 25 + X, where X = Perform check - 40). Success renders the spell ineffective for that target. Failure brings that target under the direct control of the caster for 3 minutes. During this time, the affected targets and the caster perform as a group. The targets do not need ranks in Perform, but will contribute in any way they are able, such as clapping or rythmic speaking. Both the targets and the caster must maintain Concentration while Performing. If a target fails a Concentration check, he is freed from the spell. If the caster fails a Concentration check, the entire spell ends immediately. The targets recieve a +1 bonus per performer in the Ensemble to any such Concentration checks.

    During the Ensemble, the caster and his targets will sing, act out, or otherwise indicate a plan they will enact. The caster is free to give out specialized instructions to any individual or smaller groups within the Ensemble. Once the

    Ensemble is completed, the targets are once again capable of independent thought and action, but will willingly enact whatever plan was detailed in the Ensemble, until the spell's duration expires. Thoughts and actions unrelated the plan are not affected. If a target takes damage while still under the effects of Ensemble, it provokes a Concentration Check, with a + 1 bonus per performer at the end of the Ensemble. If this check is failed, the spell is immediately ended for that target.

    Once the spell is ended, the targets retais a full memory of their activities and experiences while under the influence of the spell, but are completely free of any direct effects of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Duet, Chorus, or Eleven O'Clock Number may only be cast on a particular target once per day,

    regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure is automatic.

    Ensemble can only handle a total of five different sets of instructions.

    Attempting to use this spell to induce behavior that grossly violates a target's moral, ethical, or personal principles or values, (such as forcing a Paladin to attack a child) or involves the target causing direct harm to himself (such as suicide or self-mutilation) may provoke a new Will save or cause the spell to be broken for that target without a save, depending on the severity of the violation. This is implemented at the discretion of the Dungeon Master.

    If the caster uses a language-based Performing art, then a target that does not understand that language will be unaffected.

    Targets of which the caster is unaware are not affected by this spell.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. They are: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Eleven OíClock Number
    School: Enchantment (Compulsion)
    Level: Bard 6
    Components: Verbal, Somatic
    Casting Time: 1 Minute
    Range: Large (400 ft + 40ft/caster level)
    Target: All sentient creatures within Range
    Duration: 1 Hour and 5 Minutes
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: No
    Description:
    Before casting this spell, the caster may specify any targets he wishes to leave unaffected.

    As he begins casting this spell, the caster makes a Perform check (DC 45) using an instrument of his choice. All normal modifiers apply. If this check is failed, the spell dissipates uselessly.

    Upon completion of casting, the targets must each make a Will save (DC = 30 + X, where X = Perform check - 45). Success renders the spell ineffective for that target. Failure brings that target under the direct control of the caster for 5 minutes. During this time, the affected targets and the caster perform as a group. The targets do not need ranks in Perform, but will contribute in any way they are able, such as clapping or rythmic speaking. The caster must maintain Concentration while Performing, but the targets cannot have their Concentration broken. If the caster fails a Concentration check, the entire spell ends immediately.

    During the Number, the caster and his targets will sing, act out, or otherwise indicate a plan they will enact. The caster is free to give out specialized instructions to any number of individuals or smaller groups within the Number.

    Once the Number is completed, the targets are once again capable of independent thought and action, but will willingly enact whatever plan was detailed in the Number, until the spell's duration expires. Thoughts and actions unrelated the plan are not affected.

    Once the spell is ended, the targets retais a full memory of their activities and experiences while under the influence of the spell, but are completely free of any direct effects of the spell.

    Restrictions:
    This spell, Duet, Chorus, or Eleven O'Clock Number may only be cast on a particular target once per day, regardless of success. If a target has been attacked by the caster or his obvious allies within an hour prior to the casting of this spell, failure is automatic.

    Ensemble can only handle a total of five different sets of instructions.

    Attempting to use this spell to induce behavior that grossly violates a target's moral, ethical, or personal principles or values, (such as forcing a Paladin to attack a child) or involves the target causing direct harm to himself (such as suicide or self-mutilation) may provoke a new Will save or cause the spell to be broken for that target without a save, depending on the severity of the violation. This is implemented at the discretion of the Dungeon Master.

    If the caster uses a language-based Performing art, then a target that does not understand that language will be unaffected.

    Targets of which the caster is unaware are not affected by this spell.

    Certain types of creatures are too alien to be affected by this spell. They are: Construct, Outsider, Undead.

    ----------

    Notes: Verse and Aria are not quite what I want them to be. I want them to be more than just stronger versions of Featured Moment, perhaps with alternate effects available at the casters choice. I was thinking Aria could render targets confused and somehow controlled, respectively, but I canít quite figure out the mechanics. Should I allow a full perform check complete with Charisma bonus, and then what happens to the Will Save? Also, I donít know too much about all the various magic-busting spells out there (Dispel Magic, et al.), so I donít know which spells would be viable for busting up the stronger ones like Duet, Choral, Ensemble, and Eleven OíClock. Also, what else should be considered too alien for these effects, I've got outsiders, constructs, and undead already.

    EDIT: I altered the DC's to make it a bit more reasonable, but I still haven't worked through all the math. Mostly the raw base numbers for the DC's are my biggest concern right now. I've also reduced the casting times, and given the spell safeguards against abuses like Duetting a person into committing suicide. The formulae for DC's and stuff probably still need attention, but I've got stuff to go do. I may be rewriting these and divide "Description" into "Effect" (which will detail how the spell could go right), and "Restrictions" which will get into all the ways things could go wrong. Right now, all that text is a bit hard to handle.

    EDIT 2: Mostly cleanup to make this whole thing more readable. But I also tweaked some rules to be more consistent and specific, and also made the Concentration bonuses to maintain Chorus and Ensemble based on the number of people involved, not on the caster level.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    why do they get bonuses to all charisma checks except perform? i mean, isn't that what musical theater is all about? not a criticism, just a curiousity.

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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    I like the idea of these spells, but something seems a bit off. The save DCs seem a bit high. Let's do some math on Duet.

    At 10th level, a wizard with both spell focuses, an 22 Int (an 18 boosted at L4 and L8, and with a +2 enhancement item) casting their highest level spell (L5) will have a save DC of 10+5+1+1+6 = 23.

    A 10th level cleric with a Wisdom of 22 (same as the wizard) and a cloak of resistance +2 can have a Will save of 7+2+6 = +15. That's a 60% chance of success on a save against a comprable wizard's most powerful spell.

    A bard with an 18 charisma can cast this spell by L10. With a masterwork flute and an easily obtained circlet of fluting +10 (competence bonus to perform[flute], a steal at 10k), he can have a perform check of 13+2+4+10 = +29. If he rolls a 1, he still succeeds on the check. Moreover, if he rolls any more than a 6... the cleric I just described is completely incapable of making the save.

    The 1 minute casting time makes it completely feasible for the cleric (and his buddies) to give the bard the smack down while he sits somewhere casting a spell. Even so, if the bard has allies, they can easily shield him while he casts. Then, the cleric is under the bard's control for 3 minutes. 3 minutes is plenty of time to do any number of things. "Walk, walk, walk off the cliff"

    One other suggestion: you might want to add the mind-affecting and/or sonic descriptors.

    Keep at it, and these spells'll be awesome in no time.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    Quote Originally Posted by xthemage
    A bard with an 18 charisma can cast this spell by L10. *With a masterwork flute and an easily obtained circlet of fluting +10 (competence bonus to perform[flute], a steal at 10k), he can have a perform check of 13+2+4+10 = +29. *If he rolls a 1, he still succeeds on the check. *Moreover, if he rolls any more than a 6... the cleric I just described is completely incapable of making the save.
    The real problem is that items that increase save DCs are impossible to getóbut items that increase skill checks are cheap (and were even cheaper under 3.0 rules). Thus, basing a save DC off of a Perform check can get dicey.

    Quote Originally Posted by xthemage
    The 1 minute casting time makes it completely feasible for the cleric (and his buddies) to give the bard the smack down while he sits somewhere casting a spell. *
    This, I disagree with. I imagine the bard would first use his bardic music to Fascinate the cleric and allies so that they sit and listen to the spell.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    As far as Moment, Verse, and Aria NOT benefitting perform, my idea was that the character is using his performance abilities to enhance his persuasive abilities (that's one of the reason why those perform checks don't use modifiers, just ranks, it seemed stupid to let your charisma modifier make it easier for you to get YET ANOTHER bonus to Charisma). Conversely, using perform to magically boost your own performance seemed likewise... circular. Granted, these spells are ridiculous and designed primarily as jokes, but I want it to be that anyone feeling silly enough to use them still gets a viable (if very odd) spell out of it.

    xthemage, I'm very new at this sort of thing, so those DC's were a bit of a shot in the dark. Plus it was about 3AM here when I finished these, so I guess it didn't quite sink in that by making the Bard's initial perform check very high, I would then make it impossible for the target to resist. I'll admit, the DC's for the Perform checks were a bit of a shot in the dark. Perhaps the Will save could have a fixed DC + some fraction of the difference between the bards perform check and the OTHER DC. As far as the long casting times go, I wanted to make this spell have limited use. For instance, the "no combat for 1 hour prior" plus the long casting times were designed to prevent the bard from using this power in open combat, as that was just too silly even for me. But you're right, to make this spell more useful in a spontaneous way, those casting times should be a little shorter. And I should specify that the victims participate in the songs to the best of their ability. If they are mute, they can still dance, provide rhytmic clapping, etc. I didn't bother putting the mind-affecting qualfier because the SRD says that all Enchantments ARE mind-affecting. And I thought language dependent pretty much included sonic.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    I'm really not good at critiquing spells - but that's never stopped me from putting in my two copper in the past. ;D

    One generic comment before getting too far into details. I'm pretty sure all Enchantment spells are supposed to have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Featured MomentUpon completion of casting, the target must make a Will save (DC = 10 + X, where X = Perform check - 15). *Once this save is failed, the caster gains a +1 bonus to all Charisma-based checks against the target, except Perform checks, for the duration of the spell.
    Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it not "kosher" to redifine the save DC of a spell? I thought it was a fixed mechanic built into the system - 10 + spell level + (in this case) charisma modifier.

    Putting that aside - this is gonna be pretty damn difficult for a first level bard. He has to make a DC 15 check using only his skill ranks. That means - at first level - he has a 50% chance of failing the spell. And that's before the target even makes a save. Now I know 0 level spells are supposed to suck, but this just seems really poor. Bards have enough problems. ;)

    Finally, you'll need to specify that if the bard is using a perform type that requires speaking that the spell has the [Language-Dependent] descriptor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Verse
    Well, first, there's a descrepency between your casting time in the table (Full round) and your text (must perform for 1 minute). If the Bard must perform for 1 minute before the target can make a save, then it would seem the casting time should be 1 minute.

    My comments above about the Perform check DC hold true here, too. A Bard can cast 1st level spells starting at 2nd level (assuming he has a bonus spell of that level available). So his max ranks at that point would be 5, meaning a DC 20 check using only his ranks means he has to roll a 15 or better to succeed. He's gonna fail this check 70% of the time. Poor Gimble - it's not bad enough he's a gnome and a bard. Now he has a 70% spell failure! :p

    On your target, rather than making it a fixed number it seems a lot of spells specifiy a certain number per caster level - with a max number of targets. Might wanna work that sort of thing into this spell.

    Lastly (on this spell) the [Language-Dependent] stuff I mentioned above applies here, too. Actually, it seems to apply to all of 'em, so I'm gonna stop mentioning it now. ;)


    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Aria
    School: *Enchantment (Charm)
    Again, your DC is gonna cripple poor Gimble. A bard gets 2nd level spells at 4th level (assuming bonus spells). So his max ranks are 7, so to make the DC 25 check he needs to roll at least an 18! Now we're talking about a failure rate of 85%.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Duet
    <<snipped stuff>>Both the target and the caster must maintain Concentration while Performing, or the spell ends immediately.
    This one looks OK, because the Perform check allows all the goodies a Bard will have - high charisma, feats, items, etc. The DC is still a little high, but the check isn't as hard as the others. We're talking about a 7th level Bard, so that's 10 ranks + 4 charisma + 1 from a stat-boosting for a total of 15. Well, he still needs to roll a 15 or better to succeed - so again, Gimble is gimped by a really tough DC. (Don't worry - I have a suggestion to go along with all this criticism I'm giving on your DC's, I'm just saving it for the end. ;) ).

    The text I left is a bit odd. Why does the target have to concentrate? For that matter, why would the target concentrate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Chorus
    Well, we'll start with the DC. 4th level spell means we're talking about a 10th level bard. So 13 ranks + 5 charisma + 2 from a stat boosting item = 20 in Perform. So we still need to roll a 15 or better to succeed.

    this:

    Attempting to use this spell to induce behavior that grossly violates a target's moral, ethical, or personal principles or values, (such as forcing a Paladin to attack a child) or involves the target causing direct harm to himself (such as suicide or self-mutilation) may provoke a new Will save or cause the spell to be broken for that target without a save, depending on the severity of the violation. This is implemented at the discretion of the Dungeon Master.
    sort of thing often bugs me. Basically, I've seen enough DM's on message boards who would take this as an opportunity to screw over a paladin or other "morally upright" character. I don't like leaving things to "DM fiat." I'd suggest simply having the spell's effect end against that target.





    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Ensemble
    So the DC here is 40. A 5th level spell means a 13th level bard. We're looking at 16 ranks + 5 charisma + 3 from charisma boosting item = 24, so Gimble needs to roll 16 or better.

    The same thing applies here as the previous spell when it comes to moral codes, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    Eleven OíClock Number
    OK - the DC is 45, it's a 6th level spell, so we're talking about a 16th level bard. 19 ranks + 6 charisma + 3 from a stat boosting item + 5 from an item granting a competence bonus = 33. So we need to roll a 12 or better - and this is after adding in the skill boosting item. We still fail more than half the time here.

    ***

    Overall, the spells are amusing. I'd recommend you do the following. Make the save DC function as normal. However, for every point the Bard beats the perform check add one to the save DC. So, for example, the save DC for Featured Moment would still be 10 + the bard's charisma modifier. However, for every point higher than 15 the bard gets on a perform check, the DC increases by one. I'd make it a regular check - allow charisma, items, feats, etc.

    Doing that allows you to stck to the normal mechanic for save DC's, and allows you to keep the perform checks which saeem integral to your spells.
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    So now the spell descriptions are still really ridiculously long, but hopefully they're a bit easier to read. I've only done some minor tweaking really on DC's and Concentration checking. I might be writing some new flavor texts, but, being very new at this, I'd really appreciate more criticism.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    OK, about DC's, I have NO IDEA what I'm doing, so your suggestions are much appreciated! I knew I was aiming a little high, and I did want this to be a bit tricky to pull off, but an 85% chance of failure is definitely a bit dicier than I meant it to be.

    As far as Will save DC's, you ultimate suggestion is exactly what I have, isn't it? A basic DC + a bonus for each point by which the Bard beats his initial Perform check?

    The Concentration on the part of the victim was attempt to integrate one other possible escape route for the victim. Normally, there is no issue, but if you are, say, struck with a frying pan, it may be enough to jar you out of the spell. Not the most elegant solution, but I wanted that to be a way out. If you're doing the song on an open field, no Conentration is prompted. Maybe I should take it out, and give a different perk for 11:00 Number. (Maybe that CAN affect targets of which the caster is unaware.)

    Casting times: OK, with Verse and Aria I originally had the casting time the same as the performance time. (Thinking, as a performer, a verse is about a minute and two minutes for a solo song.) Of course, it figures, that everybody jumped all over for me for the long casting time. So I tried to compromise....

    As far ast the Mind-Affecting and Language-Dependent, I'll get that in as soon as I finish swimming.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    A bard intent on getting their perform check as high as possible can make a DC 40 perform check without a sweat by L13. Since many of the bard's other abilities are based on his perform check, it's not unreasonable to expect that a bard would boost it.

    A masterwork instrument grants +2 for a mere 150 gp, and the +5 circumstance bonus is a trivial 2500 gp. Buff spells like guidance or heroism can add +1 to +2 and feats like skill focus add even more. These four items alone bring the bard's check to 24+5(competence)+2(circumstance)+2(morale)+3(focus ) = 36. This reduces the chance of failure to 15%.

    The will save DC is still a bit high but the fact that the subject's allies can snap them out of it by slapping them around balances it out. Spellcasters who have high concentration checks usually have high will saves, so that works out well too. I'd still drop the save DC a bit though... maybe make it scale according to 15+1/2 CL.

    Anyhow, keep it up.
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    Default Re: [Spell Theme] Musical Theatre

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Watcher
    As far as Will save DC's, you ultimate suggestion is exactly what I have, isn't it? *A basic DC + a bonus for each point by which the Bard beats his initial Perform check?.
    It's not quite the same. Under your current method if you fail the Perform check your spell fizzles. As X pointed out, my numbers are using the bare minimum of stuff available - a bard who focuses on performing is indeed going to have a better check than what I indicated - assuming the DM let's him have it, of course. Anyway, your method requires the perform check to be successful; my suggestion requires the perform check to add a bonus. That's the difference.

    if you decide you like that idea, you might need to build in caps to the bonus. Like I said, balancing spells is certainly not my forte. :-/
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

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