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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default [Screen Name] Prophet (of Musrum)v0.1 feedback pls

    Casting aside his kingly habiliments, he donned the shabby apparel of a wandering prophet and set out for Barcelona.
    He quickly drew attention to himself by his apocalyptic teaching and astounding miracles, and succeeded in a calculated attempt to persuade the populace that he was a Messiah. Several martyrdoms, cheerfully suffered, helped to drive home his claim.


    PROPHET (OF MUSRUM)

    BLAH BLAH

    Adaptation: A prophet is essentially an experienced character who gains divine spells outside the existing religious hierarchy.

    Hit Die: d8.

    REQUIREMENTS:
    To qualify to become a prophet, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Diety: A prophet must worship (or claim to worship) a specific deity.

    Alignment: A prophet’s alignment must be within one step of his deity’s (that is, it may be one step away on either the lawful–chaotic axis or the good–evil axis, but not both). A prophet may not be neutral unless his deity’s alignment is also neutral.

    Base Save Bonus: Fort +3, Will +3.

    Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Diplomacy or Intimidate 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, Perform (oratry) 10 ranks, and Sense Motive 5 ranks.

    Feats: Iron Will, feat.

    Special: Must ...

    Table: The Prophet
    {table]
    [tr]
    [td]Level[/td]
    [td]BAB[/td]
    [td]Fort[/td]
    [td]Ref[/td]
    [td]Will[/td]
    [td]Special[/td]
    [td]-------------- Spells per Day* --------------[/td]
    [/tr][/table]{table]
    [tr]
    [td]
    Level
    [/td]
    [td]
    BAB
    [/td]
    [td]
    Fort
    [/td]
    [td]
    Ref
    [/td]
    [td]
    Will
    [/td]
    [td]Special[/td]
    [td]
    0th
    [/td]
    [td]
    1st
    [/td]
    [td]
    2nd
    [/td]
    [td]
    3rd
    [/td]
    [td]
    4th
    [/td]
    [td]
    5th
    [/td]
    [td]
    6th
    [/td]
    [td]
    7th
    [/td]
    [td]
    8th
    [/td]
    [td]
    9th
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]
    4
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]Ability[/td]
    [td]
    5
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]
    5
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    4
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +4
    [/td]
    [td]Ability[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    5
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +4
    [/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    +4
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +5
    [/td]
    [td]Ability[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    7
    [/td]
    [td]
    +5
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +5
    [/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    8
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]Ability[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [td]
    -
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    9
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    4+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]
    10
    [/td]
    [td]
    +7
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +7
    [/td]
    [td]Ability[/td]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    4+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    4+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    3+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    2+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    1+1
    [/td]
    [td]
    0+1
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]
    * In addition to the stated number of spells per day for 1st- through 9th-level spells, a prophet gets a domain spell for each spell level, starting at 1st.
    The “+1” in the entries on this table represents that spell. Domain spells are in addition to any bonus spells the prophet may receive for having a high Charisma score.

    CASS SKILLS:
    A prophet gains no new class skills. All class skills from previous classes are considered class skills for a prophet.
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    CASS FEATURES:
    All the following are class features of the prophet prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A prophet gains no new proficientcy with any weapons, armor, or shields.

    Aura (Ex): A prophet of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).

    Spells per Day: When a new prophet level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of prophet to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
    If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a prophet, he must decide to which class he adds each level of prophet for the purpose of determining spells per day.

    Alternatively the character can choose to gain spells according to the Table: The Prophet. This descision must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed. The rules for spellcasting as a prophet are below.

    Spells: A prophet gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list. However, his alignment may restrict him from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells, below. A prophet must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).
    To prepare or cast a spell, a prophet must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a prophet’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the prophet’s Charisma modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a prophet can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Prophet. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. . When Table: The Prophet indicates that the prophet gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. A prophet also gets one domain spell of each spell level, starting at 1st level as given on Table: The Prophet. When a prophet prepares a spell in a domain spell slot, it must come from one of his two domains (see Deities, Domains, and Domain Spells, below).
    Prophets meditate or pray for their spells. Each prophet must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a prophet can prepare spells. A prophet may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.
    A prophet's spellcasting cannot be improved by another prestige class.

    Deity, Domains, and Domain Spells: A prophet’s deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A prophet chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A prophet can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.

    Each domain gives the prophet access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The prophet gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.
    With access to two domain spells at a given spell level, a prophet prepares one or the other each day in his domain spell slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a prophet can prepare it only in his domain spell slot.

    Sun Domain: Instead of the greater turing granted power, a prophet who takes the sun domain gains the ability to turn or rebuke undead as a cleric. However this ablity cannot be used with divine feats.

    Spontaneous Casting: A good prophet (or a neutral prophet of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the prophet did not prepare ahead of time. The prophet can “lose” any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with “cure” in its name).
    An evil prophet (or a neutral prophet of an evil deity), can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with “inflict” in its name).
    A prophet who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed.

    Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A prophet can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s. Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Background

    Musrum is the title and main protagonist of a book published in 1968. It can be found on Amazon.

    Quotes from the book include:
    • "Needing time, Musrum accepted the offer of the year 1489 from an itinerant peddler. This gave him the opportunity to construct the North American Continent."
    • "A.D. 1505. God noticed the existence of America for the first time."
    • "Musrum perched precariously atop the frailest branch of the tallest tree. Looking to the east he observed, ‘It's a long way sideward!’"
    • "On the road back to Intersol Musrum encountered Bella, a woman of great beauty, entirely worthy of such a conqueror as he. Rapidly forging chains of love, he captivated her!"
    • "Ladykiller though he was, he decided to spare her life."

    __________________________________________

    And here is a review by David Langford found here:

    Musrum by Eric Thacker and Anthony Earnshaw ( 1968 )

    "There was little excuse for the invention of the name MUSRUM. It was already known in sixteen principalities and native states."

    Thacker's and Earnshaw's quirky, surreal, and very English fantasy introduces trickster hero Musrum with a barrage of gnomic aphorisms. "A torpedoed cathedral sinks rapidly into the earth." Likewise, "Sudden prayers make God jump." Bizarre lists abound.

    A godlike eccentric, Musrum constructs his refuge (which is also the world) downward from the Attic, floor by floor to the Cellar. Musroid symbology is extensive and peculiar; the Giant Mushroom, heart of our man's power, is fatally coveted by the evil Weedking. The resulting pursuit leads to Russia, a plethora of wolves, a Musrum doppelganger called Palfreyman, and the Second Crimean War.

    Besides its elegant, witty prose, Musrum is a graphic novel profusely illustrated by both authors, with many Escherian quirks. Musrum's iron castle has two linked sections, the Side Elevation and the Ground Plan. Vital strategies depend on a map revealing the Volga river to be circular. Skulls and crossbones recur. There are exhaustive diagrammatic inventories of war banners, final victory celebrations, and dressing tables (57 varieties).

    Sample campaign tactic: "Exploiting the concept of gravity, Musrum designed and constructed a perpetual motion machine which was simply a four-wheeled bogie. He placed this casual device on a hill that sloped down forever."

    This book's weird, one-off inventiveness made it impossible -- after Musrum's triumphant return to his kingdom of Intersol -- for there to be a sequel. The 1971 sequel is equally deranged, drastically reworks the story of that very bad man Father Christmas, and is called Wintersol.
    __________________________________________

    Which means I am not likely to be in the running for Most Likely to be Used in an Actual Campaign.


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Design Notes

    Here is where I plan to address each point of the competition rules with my design.
    _____________________________________________

    1.) The name of the class.

    Prophet (of Musrum).

    2.) The abilities of the class should relate.

    The PrC cannot be directly related to Musrum, because he is probably best represented by Divine Ranks. So I guess I will come up with a PrC from the Musroid army of the Second Crimean War. This will require a re-read of the book...

    Got it. The PrC will be based off the false Musrums in the book.
    In real life, we have plenty of people locked up with messiah complexes etc. How would such people relate in a world where the gods truly exist (and sometimes come to dinner)?

    So the core concept will be a class for those who either act like, or truly think they are the Avatar of some god (in this case Musrum). Mechanically it will be similar to the UR Priest, but with casting based of Charisma. I will use the more restrictive prerequisites for spellcasting (require a bonus spell to cast spells of that level) because I think a super high Charisma is what this class needs to pull of the high divine spells.

    3.) Prestige classes should be for D&D only.

    Check. This will be a specific example (Musrum) of a PrC that could be applied to any god that would tolerate this sort of behaviour.

    4.) Each new class should be started on a new thread.

    Done. (But I have suffed up by not posting a complete class.)

    5.) Post on this thread.

    Done.

    6.) The deadline: August 1st.

    "I love deadlines." Doglas Adams.

    7.) Categories of voting and judgement:
    • Best Spellcaster Class (mechanics and flavor)
    - I hope to balance the Ur-priest and create a class that can be flavoured as desired mechanically (with deity's domains). I also want the class to be able to accommodate a greater range of concepts that the Ur-Priest or Favoured Soul allow.
    The "how and why" for each prophet should be defined by the player and DM as a reflection of that character's relationship with their god.
    The Prophet should allow for false prophets who swindle spells from their god and soup from their congregation, for mad hermits with messiah complexes who gain spells through force of personality and for those who are genuinely touched by divine grace.
    This class should work well in a campaign like Ebberon where ambiguities and confusion are easier to find within the ranks of the faithful.

    8.) N/A to design.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Design Diary

    OK so my concept has evolved a bit now.

    Starting with False Musrums and making it generic to include not only false prophets/messiahs/avatars of every god but also those who genuinely believe they are prophets/messiahs/avatars of a god (and thus are mad) and lastly those who genuinely are prophets/messiahs of a god.

    So the PrC allows for the False Avatar of Bahumut - and old man with 7 trained canaries, who manages to scare the hell out of an adventuring party; a Mad Messiah of Loth who is tolerated by the goddess because its fun to kick the nest now and then; and the True Prophet of St Cuthbert who gives the church a well needed kick in the behind to get them back smashing Evil instead of "processing" tax fraud.

    What I have at the moment is a Cleric in 10 levels, minus the Turn or Rebuke Undead. This is deliberate because it synergises a bit too well with Charisma based casting.

    The changes to the Ur-Priest are:

    Charisma based casting. More appropriate.

    Later qualification, so that 9th level divine spell is gained at character level 17 (why mess with the assumptions of any module).

    The addition of Domain spells. I wanted each prophet to be uniquely flavoured by each deity, and domains are the existing way to do it. The domain spell is actually a two edge sword. Yes it gives you extra options with your spell list, but the number of spells per day is so small, a significant portion of your daily spells has a spell list of 2 spells.

    That’s why I added in the spontaneous inflict/cure.

    A prophet's spellcasting cannot be improved by another prestige class. This removes all the abuses of Ur-priest I have seen.
    [hr]
    Now I have to find a nice set of powers that complement the spellcasting and give the class a unique flavour.

    I also have to work out how to incorporate a Cleric becoming a Prophet and how the Sun domain granted power will work.
    [hr]
    OK I have written in the Cleric/Prophet. This change means that the modified Ur-priest progression has to be balanced against +1 divine spellcasting per level.

    I made the change to the Sun domain granted power so that those concepts which require turning are available. However the turning is never going to be potent because it is based off prophet levels. Some min/max'ers would take the turning just to fuel some divine feats, so I nixed that.

    Usuming the I have balance the two spellcasting progressions, then I can buid a class feature set on a par with Stormlord, Sacred Exorcist, and Church Inquisitor.

    I am tempted to build three streams of features like the ranger has two combat styles to represent the false/mad/true prophet options availble.

    However I am starting to think that the class is getting a bit too complicated and trying to do too much.

    So here are a few of questions.

    1. Are the two forms of spellcasting progressions balanced against each other?

    2. Is it clear that you choose one or the other?

    3. Should I build three streams of class features, or just one?

    4. Any other suggestions or corrections are welcome.
    [hr]Reformated using Gorbash_Kazdar's yabbc html (thanks).
    I have chosen blue for heading text in honour of the Prophetess from Talisman (may she burn).
    I have moved the class back up the first post.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Screen Name] Prophet (of Musrum)v0.1 feedback

    This seems to be nothing but a Charisma-based Cleric with 8 hit die and a lot weaker spellcasting. You got some work to do, man.
    *Insert random Terry Pratchett quote here*

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Library Lovers Contest Winner
     
    AngelSword's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Screen Name] Prophet (of Musrum)v0.1 feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by GeeVee
    This seems to be nothing but a Charisma-based Cleric with 8 hit die and a lot weaker spellcasting. You got some work to do, man.
    Clerics already have an d8 Hit Die. There's nothing lost in that respect.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Screen Name] Prophet (of Musrum)v0.1 feedback

    I know, I was away from my books for two weeks and was under the impression that Clerics had 6 hit die. Silly me. Still, this class is no good. I'd rather just do like the Giant did with druids and make a feat called "Prophet" that makes Clerical spellcasting Charisma-based. Then you have this class with better spellcasting abilities.
    *Insert random Terry Pratchett quote here*

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zagaroth's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Screen Name] Prophet (of Musrum)v0.1 feedback

    well, he has soem abilities to go that he hasn't decided on yet, so I say we wait and see what those abilites are going to be...
    \"It Takes a Long time to count to 2 in binary.\"~fourlegged

    "There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    I guess you could adapt Time Lords into D and D. Rainbow Servant of Dr. Who.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zherog's Avatar

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    Default Re: Design Diary

    I'll try and answer your questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by Musrum
    1. Are the two forms of spellcasting progressions balanced against each other?
    They seem to be about as balanced as they can be - granting nine levels of casting in a 10 level class means you progress faster. But of course, you have to qualify first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musrum
    2. Is it clear that you choose one or the other?
    I thought that was quite clear, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musrum
    3. Should I build three streams of class features, or just one?
    I think it would be a good idea. If you go that route, you need to do a few things, I think:

    1) Tweak the flavor text slightly.
    2) Indicate that once a path is choosen, it cannot be changed
    3) (the hardest) Try to ensure all 3 paths are balanced with one another.

    I'd recommend there be some downside to each path attached to the first level ability. Something minor (such as a -2 to a handful of skills in certain situations). This would help add a bit of flavor to the class paths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musrum
    4. Any other suggestions or corrections are welcome.
    Nothing jumped out on my first reading. I'll give it another look later - right now it's time to go home! YAY! :)
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

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