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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    *Looks at list.*

    Holy cow! Where the heck did my Fire Warriors go?!

    EDIT: Here is the fixed army list.

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    Last edited by evil_d4_swarm; 2009-01-16 at 06:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    It looks a lot better with the fire warriors in there. I don't know the specifics of Tau well enough too say too much about it.

    Also it seems like you are just talking screen-shots of another program and posting them, which works, but I would just use alt-printscreen to capture the image, it works without having that dialog box. It just creates a copy to the clipboard, then just open paint (or any other image program) paste it in there and edit out the program part of the window.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    I like that list. It's a good all-comers list. I'd still say to get a transport for your each firewarrior squad, but can't always have everything you want. Besides, the pathfinder devilfish can transport 'em anyway.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    It looks a lot better with the fire warriors in there. I don't know the specifics of Tau well enough too say too much about it.

    Also it seems like you are just talking screen-shots of another program and posting them, which works, but I would just use alt-printscreen to capture the image, it works without having that dialog box. It just creates a copy to the clipboard, then just open paint (or any other image program) paste it in there and edit out the program part of the window.
    I'm taking screenshots of MS Word using ctrl-printscreen. I then copy it into paint.

    I like that list. It's a good all-comers list. I'd still say to get a transport for your each firewarrior squad, but can't always have everything you want. Besides, the pathfinder devilfish can transport 'em anyway.
    Yeah. my plan is for the Pathfinder Devilfish to drop off the pathfinders with two 12" moves (one scout) to a good sniper spot. Then the devilfish would be used to ferry troops across the board.

    EDIT: My plan is to divide my army into two groups: Behind the Lines and Support.

    Behind the Lines
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    • Stealth Suits
    • Ion Blaster Shas'o
    • Kroot Squads
    • Crisis Suit Teams

    ____________________

    • The Stealth Suits and Kroot Squads stay in reserve, preparing to outflank.
    • Likewise, the Crisis Suits and Shas'o also stay in reserve, deep striking when they can.
    • The Crisis teams are divided into two groups: Tank Hunters and Dakkasuits.
  5. The Tank Hunters hunt tanks with their missile pods, hence the name.
  • The Dakkasuits are there to bury burst cannon shots and flamer templates into horde-type squads.
  • The Shas'o jumps to whichever squad needs assistance. He mainly helps the Dakkasuits.



  • Support
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    • Fire Warrior Teams
    • Missile Pod Shas'o
    • Hammerheads

    ____________________
    • The Carbine Fire Warriors advance towards objectives, firing all the way and avoiding assault troops.
    • The Rifle Fire Warriors speed towards an objective, defending it by firing at any threatening unit within 30".
    • The Shas'o follows the Fire Warriors, firing at light vehicles or closer targets.
    • The Hammerheads move at 6" per turn avoiding enemies and firing at heavyer vehicles or high-priority targets.
    • The Hammerheads can also move 12", firing only their railguns.



    The Pathfinders will find a safe place and snipe at enemies.
    The Piranhas will fly around the battlefield and assist where needed.
    Last edited by evil_d4_swarm; 2009-01-16 at 11:19 PM.
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  • - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    As for the fleeing if the kroot or the enemy fleed, it goes by majority of models, so it just depends if the kroot or the hounds outnumber.
    Then having a good majority of hounds is even more crucial. Not only do they contribute the most to the squad's effectiveness (against enemies with I4 or less, anyway), they also could make the difference between the squad breaking away safely after having done severe damage to the opponent (but having lost CC anyway), and the squad being completely eradicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    I think the kroot have a very viable role in the tau army, but like every unit in every army, it has to be supported properly to get much done. I think the problem with them is generally that tau lists aren't designed to give the enemy any other target to shoot at when the kroot move forward so they take a lot of fire and get shot down to inneffective sizes simply from attacks of opportunty from the opponents (ie nothing better to shoot at). I think it could probably work fairly well with some other troops with move and fire weapons with much range to move around with them. Such as a unit or two of fire warriors with the pulse carbines, and hopefully the opponent will underestimate the kroot and shoot at the FWs instead giving the kroot a higher chance of a good charge.
    The Kroot's main problem could be blasts and templates. They are practically the ideal target for that - large horde, no armour save.
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  • - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    I personally love a good kroot squad. 20 strong + however many hounds hugging cover are easily able to destroy an entire chaos marine unit or similar on the charge even when you factor in whatever casualties you have sustained. 3 attacks each at Ws4 and S4 at full size (kroot + hounds) can pump out nearly 100 attacks, nearly half of which will hit on a decent combat unit or about 65 on most other units. Think of how much damage that can do. Heck, even if you lose half your models, you'll still have more than enough to take out most units. You just need to hug the cover that kroot specialise at and its very easy to make them survive long enough to hit hard.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quicky warning, going to ramble a bit on an upcoming purchase...



    Well not that I have put everything I have now to extensive use, nor even painted most of it (I've got most of 1 guardian done, hopefully by the end of tomorrow it will be 20-30 total models painted), but I'm going to be making another purchase. Mostly all I need is some more primer because I don't have enough to finish the models I have and I can't get any locally (and I'm not going to try that dupli-color primer again, the coverage seemed really light (though that may just be because it was a little cold), and after it broke and sprayed me in the face I'm done with it) but I figure hey, if I'm going to order something I may as well pick up a few models while I'm at it. Its easy enough to justify knowing I like the army and will have plenty of opponents for the forseeable future.

    What I have now:
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    HQ
    2 farseers
    4 warlocks
    1 autarch on jetbike
    Troops
    9 jetbikes, 3 with shuriken cannons (can run as 1-3 units)
    20 guardians and 2 HW platforms (1-2 units)
    5 rangers/pathfinders
    10 dire avengers
    Elites
    12 Howling Banshees (2 exarchs, though only really effective as a single group)
    12 Striking Scorpions (2 exarchs, though only really effective as a single group)
    Fast Attack
    2 Vyper Jetbikes (can run as a squadron or individually, prefer them individual)
    Heavy Support
    5 Dark Reapers
    2 War Walkers (can run as a squadron or individually, prefer them individual)
    Transports
    2 Wave Serpents


    So with full utilization I have 1 free elite and 1 free fast attack, though I can easily get another fast attack or heavy support.

    I like the idea of the Avatar and would like to see what I could do with him, though with 3 HQ choices and the fact that the list almost has to be tailored around him.

    Not that I need any more troop choices (since I have 7 how I would prefer to field them) I would like to try the storm guardians some. They aren't as good as the aspect warrior CC units but they are cheap, have a decent number of attacks and is the only thing in my army that can take a flamer. I think they would be ideal in an avatar led army.

    For fast attack the only one I'm interested in at this point is the Warp Spiders and I really like them. The biggest question with them is if I can reasonably field them in a unit of 5 or if I'm going to have to get 2 boxes.

    I think the Falcon seems good, I'm just not sure if its really going to have a role that doesn't directly compete with the 2 wave serpents I already have.

    The Heavy Support Weapon Battery (not the troop choice one) has some powerful weapons, but I kind of think they are expensive for what they can do. Although the D-cannon is nice in the fact that it can wound anything in the game (being a warp weapon) but being artillery the 24" range seems like it wouldn't be that effective against a lot of armies. The shadow weaver seems good too, its not as expensive, but its not as strong either. One other problem is that either choice would need 2-3 models to really be worth fielding.

    For the elites its either fire dragons or harlequins. Fire dragons are great against vehicles, and something like terminators, but not really a whole lot else. So far I haven't had much trouble with tanks, but if I did run up against something like a land raider I don't think I have much of anything that can really even have a decent chance of hurting it. They also pretty much require a transport (falcon or wave serpent) to be effective and I don't know if they are really worth that much in terms of points in a game.
    The harlequins seem really interesting and dangerous, but they are very fragile. I don't really think that they would fill any role that the scorpions or banshees can't also do (and for less points), they just have more utility*, and that comes at making them more expensive.

    I don't really want to go with the wraithguard or wraithlord right now. They seem powerful and very survivable, but they are expensive and have to be babyset by a warlock (not a big issue really) They both have the ability to kill everything too (such as the aformentioned land raiders the rest of my army would have trouble with). The wraithguard are expensive points wise, and while I'm sure they are worth it, it also means a good portion of the list has to be built around them. They also both go against the whole glass cannon thing of the eldar, and an aspect of the army I want to stay with. The large wraithguard units and wraithlords make for a very survivable eldar list, and one I see posted around, but at least right now its not the direction I want to take my army.

    I could also just pick up some more banshees or scorpions, but I do sort of want to diversify my army for now.

    I'm thinking I will probably pick up 4 boxes. I'm pretty much set on getting the warp spiders, just not sure if its 1 or 2 boxes. And I'm really undecided on what I want to do with the last 2. Fire Warriors+Falcon? Harlequins* (probably have to pick up 2-3 individual models along with the squad)? Avatar and storm guardians? Some other combination?



    *rule question if anyone knows... the shadowseer's veil of tears says any unit wishing to target the shadowseer or the unit she is with must role 2d6x2 for spot distance. Does this mean that if they were in a falcon (or picked up by a wave serpent since they can't take one by default) that the ability would also apply to shots at the falcon? The rules are pretty clear that psyker powers (which it is) can be used while in a transport and range for them is figured from the edge of the ship. But in this case I don't know if the falcon would be considered a unit she is with, in some aspects of the game the answer is clearly that they aren't in the same unit, but in other aspects they are.

  • - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post

    I like the idea of the Avatar and would like to see what I could do with him, though with 3 HQ choices and the fact that the list almost has to be tailored around him.
    The Avatar makes a fantastic counter-charge unit. If you, for example, play a mostly shooty Eldar list, and someone gets too close to it with something big and nasty (Greater Daemon or other Monstrous Creature), an avatar can hand it its rear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    Not that I need any more troop choices (since I have 7 how I would prefer to field them) I would like to try the storm guardians some. They aren't as good as the aspect warrior CC units but they are cheap, have a decent number of attacks and is the only thing in my army that can take a flamer. I think they would be ideal in an avatar led army.
    You can never have too many troops. Getting more Dire Avengers, Rangers/Pathfinders, or Guardian Jetbikes wouldn't be out of the question. Especially Dire Avengers, since they're a lot better than Guardians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    For fast attack the only one I'm interested in at this point is the Warp Spiders and I really like them. The biggest question with them is if I can reasonably field them in a unit of 5 or if I'm going to have to get 2 boxes.
    Spiders definitely. Two boxes would do it. Since the warp spiders' weapons lack any AP, you'll want to have plenty of shots. I like to run the exarch with the double spinners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    I think the Falcon seems good, I'm just not sure if its really going to have a role that doesn't directly compete with the 2 wave serpents I already have.
    The Falcon is good. Not as great as it was (read: nigh invulnerable), but still good. Personally, though, I like to use the Fire Prism tanks. You should give them a try in a game to see if you like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    The Heavy Support Weapon Battery (not the troop choice one) has some powerful weapons, but I kind of think they are expensive for what they can do. Although the D-cannon is nice in the fact that it can wound anything in the game (being a warp weapon) but being artillery the 24" range seems like it wouldn't be that effective against a lot of armies. The shadow weaver seems good too, its not as expensive, but its not as strong either. One other problem is that either choice would need 2-3 models to really be worth fielding.
    Personally, the Heavy Support platforms only seem useful in Apocalypse games (and boy, are they useful there!). It just seems that heavy support slots are too valuable for normal games for the weapon batteries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    For the elites its either fire dragons or harlequins. Fire dragons are great against vehicles, and something like terminators, but not really a whole lot else. So far I haven't had much trouble with tanks, but if I did run up against something like a land raider I don't think I have much of anything that can really even have a decent chance of hurting it. They also pretty much require a transport (falcon or wave serpent) to be effective and I don't know if they are really worth that much in terms of points in a game.
    The harlequins seem really interesting and dangerous, but they are very fragile. I don't really think that they would fill any role that the scorpions or banshees can't also do (and for less points), they just have more utility*, and that comes at making them more expensive.
    Fire dragons pretty much kill the thing they're sent against. Send them against terminators, monstrous creatures (especially tyranid versions as they lack invul saves), C'tan, and just about any vehicle (other than the monolith).

    If you have enough firepower elsewhere, you can go without either choice. Out of the two, I'd say the Fire Dragons are the better choice, but, as you said, you absolutely need a transport for them. And, of course, many heavy infantries and most MCs have invul saves that'll save them no matter how much AP1 weapons yous hoot at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    I don't really want to go with the wraithguard or wraithlord right now. They seem powerful and very survivable, but they are expensive and have to be babyset by a warlock (not a big issue really) They both have the ability to kill everything too (such as the aformentioned land raiders the rest of my army would have trouble with). The wraithguard are expensive points wise, and while I'm sure they are worth it, it also means a good portion of the list has to be built around them. They also both go against the whole glass cannon thing of the eldar, and an aspect of the army I want to stay with. The large wraithguard units and wraithlords make for a very survivable eldar list, and one I see posted around, but at least right now its not the direction I want to take my army.
    Don't forget that Wraithguard are extremely expensive in money. I believe the price is around 10 USD for two. Wraithlords are a better buy, in my opinion, especially if you have a Farseer hanging back, guiding, dooming, or fortuning all over the place. Lastly, a special note to the 10-strong Wraithguard troop choices. If you plant those on an objective, it's near impossible to dislodge them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    I'm thinking I will probably pick up 4 boxes. I'm pretty much set on getting the warp spiders, just not sure if its 1 or 2 boxes. And I'm really undecided on what I want to do with the last 2. Fire Warriors+Falcon? Harlequins* (probably have to pick up 2-3 individual models along with the squad)? Avatar and storm guardians? Some other combination?
    You should try playing a few proxy games with the other units (falcon+fire dragons, Avatar, Storm Guardians, etc), then make a decision. Alternatively, you can start buffing out some of the units you use more often, such as Dire Avengers, War Walkers (I love 3 war walkers each with two scatter lasers I think they are...so many shots), or guardian jetbikes.

    You should also think about some Shining Spears to go with your Autarch, especially if you want to do a more jetbike oriented game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    *rule question if anyone knows... the shadowseer's veil of tears says any unit wishing to target the shadowseer or the unit she is with must role 2d6x2 for spot distance. Does this mean that if they were in a falcon (or picked up by a wave serpent since they can't take one by default) that the ability would also apply to shots at the falcon? The rules are pretty clear that psyker powers (which it is) can be used while in a transport and range for them is figured from the edge of the ship. But in this case I don't know if the falcon would be considered a unit she is with, in some aspects of the game the answer is clearly that they aren't in the same unit, but in other aspects they are.
    They wouldn't be shooting at the shadowseer (or her unit) they'd be shooting at the Falcon. Veil of Tears is already brokenly powerful as is.

  • - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    May I suggest a Fire Prism?

    Under the 5E Template rules, they are now a superb flex-fire platform. Drop a large template (S5, AP4) for up to medium infantry swarms, or a small template (S9, AP 2) for heavy infantry or tank-busting. If that's not enough, combine fire two of them for a Large S6, AP3 (delicious!) or a Small S10, AP1 shot.

    All that, and it costs the same as a Falcon! What's not to like?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Also, if you ever move up into apocalypse level games, then Fire Prisms are ridiculously broken. Bank shot off six fire prisms for a 10" blast with destroyer hit?



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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    I wanted to ask a few experienced veterans of the grim and dangerous warfare of Warhammer 40K.

    Did you ever had to fight the most fearsome, insanity-provoking foe of all time and space?

    Yes, I am talking about The Kitty Sisters of Battle. If you have a sad tale to tell, fellow brother, please do. We share your pain...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    what i currently have
    • 15 marines (2 squads 10&5)
    • 1 captain
    • command squad (with razorback)
    • 5 man assault squad
    • 5 sniper scouts
    • predator annihilator with lascannon sponsons
    • dreadnought

    my birthday is coming up and i might get some models, any suggestions?
    Avatar thanks to Dorian Soth

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    May I suggest a Fire Prism?

    Under the 5E Template rules, they are now a superb flex-fire platform. Drop a large template (S5, AP4) for up to medium infantry swarms, or a small template (S9, AP 2) for heavy infantry or tank-busting. If that's not enough, combine fire two of them for a Large S6, AP3 (delicious!) or a Small S10, AP1 shot.

    All that, and it costs the same as a Falcon! What's not to like?
    *thinks* *finds book*

    Can't carry a meager amount of troops. Then again, I <3 Fire Prisms

    Here's a question. I have 2 Fire Prisms. if;

    They fire their prism cannons, can they then fire their Shuriken Catapaults/Cannon in the same turn? (They currently have cannons as I stick them at range).

    If they link up their prisms, can they fire their Shuriken Catapaults/Cannon in the same turn?.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    5th ed gave Secondary weapons a massive cut from Str 6 to Str 4: so, no cannons, maybe catapults.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Exachix View Post
    *thinks* *finds book*

    Can't carry a meager amount of troops. Then again, I <3 Fire Prisms

    Here's a question. I have 2 Fire Prisms. if;

    They fire their prism cannons, can they then fire their Shuriken Catapaults/Cannon in the same turn? (They currently have cannons as I stick them at range).

    If they link up their prisms, can they fire their Shuriken Catapaults/Cannon in the same turn?.
    It depends on if and how far they've moved.

    For your second question, no. Vehicles (apart from the Land Raider--see Marines being so special they don't have to follow the rules) have to shoot at a single target. For all intent's and purpose, the fire prism is 'shooting' at the other, hence having to retain LoS and so on.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    In order to combine the beams from the fire prism tank you must forfeit the chance to fire with the contributing tank, so that would include the catapults or cannon.

    After looking at the prism tank again it does look better then I was thinking, I had thought you needed 2 to make them really effective, and while it does help, they are still pretty viable on their own.

    Making the fire prisms even better, is that they are identicly the same model as the falcon, the only difference is which weapons you stick on the turret, and the fire prism includes all the bits the falcon does, just with extra. Which means if I get one all I have to do is change out the weapons (since I've been magneting up all my weapons anyway) and I have both. Alternatively I could get the falcon and try to model my own prism cyrstal, but I'm not that good at scratch modeling right now and its probably not worth the $8 difference (thats worth like 20 minutes worth of work and it would take a lot longer then that to build). I checked for fire prism bits from various sources and they want almost as much for them as for the tank itself.

    As far as the wave serpent goes, its the same chasis, just with an extension on the back, which most people wouldn't have a problem with, but the turret is completely different and it has the bits on the wings to help differentiate between the models.

    So with that in mind its hard not to get a falcon/fire prism. So with that and 2 units of warp spiders that gives me one last thing to pick out...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Hello everyone. So, I've decided to make a Black Templars army, but I'm not entirely sure where or how to start. So far I have a Dreadnought, the Emperor's Champion and some Crusader Squads, but I don't know where to go from there.

    Help with which units are good and which are terrible, and other related stuff.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Altima View Post
    Don't forget that Wraithguard are extremely expensive in money. I believe the price is around 10 USD for two.
    More like $15 for one, it's downright obscene. But yeah, unless you've got a good chunk of disposable cash or are set on playing an Iyanden list a Wraithlord is probably much more versatile and cost effective unit.



    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    In order to combine the beams from the fire prism tank you must forfeit the chance to fire with the contributing tank, so that would include the catapults or cannon.
    Actually the Eldar FAQ says any prism that contributed it's cannon to another may still fire it's catapult/shuricannon, and I don't remember off the top of my head but I believe it could be at a different target.
    Last edited by Tren; 2009-01-18 at 10:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Wooohoo! I just got my Chaos Space Marine Army today!
    That is all >.>...
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtois View Post
    Squeeeeee!!!! *Huggles the penguin avatar* Oh nice to see you Bergett.

    Penguin is more important then you

    My avatar is also a weapon I will one day use to take over the world.(Avi by Sweet_aphrodite, well the first one was.)

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
    I wanted to ask a few experienced veterans of the grim and dangerous warfare of Warhammer 40K.

    Did you ever had to fight the most fearsome, insanity-provoking foe of all time and space?

    Yes, I am talking about The Kitty Sisters of Battle. If you have a sad tale to tell, fellow brother, please do. We share your pain...


    Flowercrons. I have an entire folder full of them, although some are surfers instead.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    So with that in mind its hard not to get a falcon/fire prism. So with that and 2 units of warp spiders that gives me one last thing to pick out...
    I'm super-meh about Fire Dragons. They are overkill in a bottle, but of the glass cannon variety. If you need something that dead, use Wraithguard - they last longer.

    Harlequins don't look so good for you though. You have plenty of CC troops available, and with Outflanking you don't need transports if you don't want them, so the Harlequins' hyper-mobility is less impressive. Veil of Tears is nice, particularly against shooty armies, but with your list so far, I really don't think you need more shooty-army support.

    Support Platforms are terrible. The only two I'd ever use - Shadow Weavers and Vibro Cannons - are just not worth it for the points. Shadow Weavers are basically Artillery Webspinners (meh) and Vibro Cannons, while very nice for anti-vehicle use (free glancing hits), you still need to hit with them (with Guardians - ew!). Oh, and they don't have IFF, so you can nuke your own people.

    May I suggest Swooping Hawks? Yeah, you have a lot of Fast Attack, but these guys are great. Deep Strike for free anti-infantry barrages, hop around for anti-vehicle raids (Intercept is 5 points, so you can even use them on skimmers), and can provide spot fire support against sticky infantry units.

    If not, just get a box of Guardians. They're cheap, and heck, maybe you can make Storm Guardians work.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    If not, just get a box of Guardians. They're cheap, and heck, maybe you can make Storm Guardians work.
    Oh, I remember the days when running 120 ulthwe storm guardians was a pretty unstoppable army ...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by First Speaker View Post
    Oh, I remember the days when running 120 ulthwe storm guardians was a pretty unstoppable army ...
    8 three-shot brightlancers? Yeah, god, I hated that list.

    But I'll one-up you--I remember the days when Eldar Wraithguard's cannons teleported units across the board!

    I miss the days when everyone had different movement values.

    May I suggest Swooping Hawks? Yeah, you have a lot of Fast Attack, but these guys are great. Deep Strike for free anti-infantry barrages, hop around for anti-vehicle raids (Intercept is 5 points, so you can even use them on skimmers), and can provide spot fire support against sticky infantry units.
    Swooping Hawks are good, but if you need anti-infantry barrages, might be better with going with more Dire Avengers (ten-strong with exarch with dual catapults and bladestorm can shred most horde squads). Heck, you can even buff out Dire Avenger squads to go close combat. Of course, just because a unit can deepstrike doesn't mean it should.

    Making the fire prisms even better, is that they are identicly the same model as the falcon, the only difference is which weapons you stick on the turret, and the fire prism includes all the bits the falcon does, just with extra. Which means if I get one all I have to do is change out the weapons (since I've been magneting up all my weapons anyway) and I have both. Alternatively I could get the falcon and try to model my own prism cyrstal, but I'm not that good at scratch modeling right now and its probably not worth the $8 difference (thats worth like 20 minutes worth of work and it would take a lot longer then that to build). I checked for fire prism bits from various sources and they want almost as much for them as for the tank itself.
    With this in mind, consider purchasing the Cloudstrike squadron (3 Falcons 90 USD or less) or even the Gravtank warhost (2 ten-man dire avengers including exarch, 1 autarch, 3 Falcons, 2 Wave serpents for 220 USD--or less).

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    May I suggest Swooping Hawks? Yeah, you have a lot of Fast Attack, but these guys are great. Deep Strike for free anti-infantry barrages, hop around for anti-vehicle raids (Intercept is 5 points, so you can even use them on skimmers), and can provide spot fire support against sticky infantry units.

    If not, just get a box of Guardians. They're cheap, and heck, maybe you can make Storm Guardians work.
    For the rest of what you said, that was pretty much the conclusion I came to, I just tossed out the ideas to see if anyone else agreed with that.

    As for the swooping hawks, I don't really see a big point of them over the warp spiders. Sure their weapon has good range, so even with its medoicre str it can do some damage, and the exarch gets some excelent weapon choices, but the range issue seems like a minor advantage for a unit that specializes in fast movement. The haywire gernades are good against vehicles, but as jump infantry they should be getting to the rear of almost any vehicle, and in that case the Str6 deathspinners are almost as useful (though the AP- hurts them). The gernade pack seems good though. As jump infantry they both get the free deepstrike now. At about the same point cost, and with the various abilities they seem fairly even against most infantry (though the gernade pack has the advantage on hordes), both seem good against most vehicles, the hawks having the advantage against the biggest stuff, but the spiders against the smaller stuff, and the spiders seem better against heavy infantry or MCs. And although it seems fairly common, I don't want to simply yo-yo the hawks.

    I think they've got some good uses and I don't see using them or the warp spiders as being mutually exclusive, but right now I'm not sure they are different enough.

    I would like to see what I could do with storm guardians and an avatar as well... I could probably squeese in another unit to do that (not that its much of an issue but I'm really trying to show constraint, which doesn't seem to be going that well)

    I did notice that theWarStore has the falcon in bits form (from splitting apoc sets most likely) for a noticable amount less, so I might go with that and try making the crystal myself.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Hello everyone. So, I've decided to make a Black Templars army, but I'm not entirely sure where or how to start. So far I have a Dreadnought, the Emperor's Champion and some Crusader Squads, but I don't know where to go from there.

    Help with which units are good and which are terrible, and other related stuff.
    I don't think anyone here really plays Black Templars, and I have never played against them, so I can't really help. Sorry.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Altima View Post
    Swooping Hawks are good, but if you need anti-infantry barrages, might be better with going with more Dire Avengers (ten-strong with exarch with dual catapults and bladestorm can shred most horde squads). Heck, you can even buff out Dire Avenger squads to go close combat. Of course, just because a unit can deepstrike doesn't mean it should.
    It isn't about having more guns on the field, it's about being able to get those guns into position quickly. Hawks are among the most flexible of the Eldar units, and one of my personal favorites.

    As Erloas pointed out, it can be hard to justify taking Hawks over Spiders, since there's a 1 point per model difference. However, I would like to stress how nice it is to be able to pick out cover from 24" away to jump behind for shooting versus taking it on the armor (or risking the Warp) to get within 12".

    And having an Exarch with Sunrifle pin down a unit while it's trying to shift to intercept your front line? Priceless
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandiya View Post
    what i currently have
    • 15 marines (2 squads 10&5)
    • 1 captain
    • command squad (with razorback)
    • 5 man assault squad
    • 5 sniper scouts
    • predator annihilator with lascannon sponsons
    • dreadnought

    my birthday is coming up and i might get some models, any suggestions?
    I'm not exactly the most "experinced player, but I think i can help. I would suggest getting at least 1 devastator squad and giving them 2 lascannons/plasmacannons and 2 hv. bolters. Devastators are some of the coolest marines around and with 5 more "meat shileds" added to the squad you can split intoi an inti-infantry and an anti-vehicle squad. I would also recomend another tactical squad for buffing up your troops(you can NEVER have too many Tac. squads) last I would advise a drop pod or 2, there is nothing more awesome then being able to deep striek with out scatter into enemy territory. But thats about all for a really nice balanced army, from there I would branch off into the elites with some terminators or veterans of either variaty.
    Thank you Lostone for the avatar!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Hello everyone. So, I've decided to make a Black Templars army, but I'm not entirely sure where or how to start. So far I have a Dreadnought, the Emperor's Champion and some Crusader Squads, but I don't know where to go from there.

    Help with which units are good and which are terrible, and other related stuff.
    As far as I've seen, you can't go wrong with an ENORMOUS CRUSADER HORDE (that's an enormous horde of crusaders, as opposed to a horde of enormous crusaders, although I'd imagine that would be fairly effective as well).

    Essentially, the way that the Black Templar player in my local group works is by overwhelming the enemy capacity to deal with large numbers of a certain troop type. Thus, no one has the capability to deal with seven land raider crusaders, or a hundred meqs who come closer to you when you shoot them. It's been very effective (he's also the guy I talked about in the last thread who fielded the multi land raider inquisition army), but the new emphasis in 5E on template weapons means that his hordes aren't quite so good any more.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate Scribe View Post
    Thus, no one has the capability to deal with seven land raider crusaders, or a hundred meqs who come closer to you when you shoot them.
    Holy crapping jesus on a pogo stick, what size army does anyone field seven landraiders in?

    Edit: Barring apocalypse obviously
    Last edited by Tren; 2009-01-19 at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

    Quote Originally Posted by Tren View Post
    Holy crapping jesus on a pogo stick, what size army does anyone field seven landraiders in?

    Edit: Barring apocalypse obviously
    Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord, land raider (295).

    Allied Hereticus Inquisitor Lord, land raider (295).

    5 Storm troopers (50).

    5 Storm troopers (50)

    Land raider (250).

    Land raider (250).

    Land raider (250).

    1440 points, add 60 points of wargear and upgrades to taste.

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