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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Froogleyboy's Avatar

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    Default So many meat shields

    In my party there is a vampire chick who keeps turning helpless people into her personal meat shields. Like last night we had an inccedint. The party was fighting a large group of demons. She turns into a bat and flys into the nearest town (about a 2 hour flight) she turns everybody, one-by-one, into her minions and sends them to there death. during that our conversation went like this:

    Her: I instruct my minions to go attack the demons unarmed.

    Me: Do you really want to send all these poor people to there deaths?

    Her: Wait, I'll keep some for the next battle

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    So, are you playing or DMing? Complaining, or just sharing her behavior with us?

    Her strategy doesn't seem like it should be all that effective. If they are that easy for her to control, she's probably a much higher level. If that's the case, I can't imagine them actually being able to hurt the demon much. I suppose if she's just looking for people to hide behind... Still, hardly seems worth the effort.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    I'm DMing. and I want to know how to stop this. The ppl weren't meant to hurt the demon she wanted to watch them be slaughterd.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    As long as your party is evil aligned, I don't see the problem (besides that now every paladin, cleric, local duke+army, etc. will hunt her down). If your party is at least neutral, there is a cure for vampirism. It has the aditional benefit of being permanent if done right.

    If its you personally that feels rather conflicted about her actions, try to talk out of charecter with the player.
    Last edited by Seonor; 2009-01-10 at 10:03 PM.
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    The joys of telling Chaotic Evil characters to fight demons, I guess...
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    So many solutions...

    Your PC seems to have forgotten the obvious: There is always someone more powerful. Realistically, if there is a vampire running about and kidnapping innocent villagers, sooner or later some good NPCs are going to hear about it. Think about it: If your PCs were an NPC group, a group of good PCs would be all over this! Unless adventurers are quite rare in your world, some high level paladin, cleric, or other strong NPC is going to try to hunt her down and kill her.

    What is the rest of the party like? If you are not running an evil campaign, it seems unlikely they'd stay with her. Even a callous neutral party would probably find her behavior far too vile with which to associate.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Don't forget solars. If they are fighting demons then celestia will be interested.
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Three words: Cleric of Pelor. Pelor does not like the undead and therefore such a cleric would be seeking to have the vampire repent. Not only that, but the cleric could summon some celestials.
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    We are a good & neutral party. She is supposed to be LN. The rest of the party was ticked. I'm trying to roll up a 10th level paladin (vampire slayer) who was hired by the last remaining priest (who hid in the celler under the church) to fix her problem. (Beth if your out there watch out!)

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Oh man, I just had an AWESOME idea. Instead of a Paladin called in by a priest in some sort of divine deus ex machina, you should totally have this survivor be a Commoner who constantly stalks the vampire in order to exact revenge for his losses. Bonus points if you give him the Survivor PrC from Savage Species and make him a Human Paragon or something like that.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-01-10 at 10:31 PM.
    The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    I understood NONE of that.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Basically, don't call in a Paladin to hunt down your vampire, just have a BAD-ASS NORMAL DUDE. Not a Paladin, not a spell-slinger, not even a Fighter - just a Commoner with an old rusty sword on the road looking to kill the vampire that led his whole family and town to their doom.

    The other stuff (the Survivor prestige class from the Savage Species book, and the Human Paragon levels) isn't necessary is just to make him slightly better when the time to fight actually comes.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-01-10 at 10:45 PM.
    The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    The demon is a servant of Orcus.

    And happens to know Control Undead (assuming she turned the townsfolk into the demi-vampire thingies).

    Woops, suddenly all those meat shields are suddenly its meat shields.

    Oh, and would you look at that? It subdued the poor vampire PC, performed a fell ritual using the corpses of her freshly slain victims, and now has the ability to instantly erase her from existance if she does not do as it says.

    And after she's been knocked off her high horse a bit, and out doing menial fed-ex for the demon, then you drive the point (stake?) home by introducing the vampire hunters, the (rather aggravated) adventurer next of kin of the slaughtered villagers, and possibly a cult of something or other who don't like the demon nor her.

    And after all of that, make her next encounter with a rust monster horde.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Altima View Post
    The demon is a servant of Orcus.

    And happens to know Control Undead (assuming she turned the townsfolk into the demi-vampire thingies).

    Woops, suddenly all those meat shields are suddenly its meat shields.

    Oh, and would you look at that? It subdued the poor vampire PC, performed a fell ritual using the corpses of her freshly slain victims, and now has the ability to instantly erase her from existance if she does not do as it says.

    And after she's been knocked off her high horse a bit, and out doing menial fed-ex for the demon, then you drive the point (stake?) home by introducing the vampire hunters, the (rather aggravated) adventurer next of kin of the slaughtered villagers, and possibly a cult of something or other who don't like the demon nor her.

    And after all of that, make her next encounter with a rust monster horde.

    I pulled the control undead stuff but our vampire has an "admirer" another guy in our group (A Half-gold dragon Half-orc) protected her by rolling two criticals on the leader of the group of demons (which killed it) the succubi fled.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Froogleyboy View Post
    We are a good & neutral party. She is supposed to be LN. The rest of the party was ticked. I'm trying to roll up a 10th level paladin (vampire slayer) who was hired by the last remaining priest (who hid in the celler under the church) to fix her problem. (Beth if your out there watch out!)
    I suggest you point out to Beth that she is playing her PC as major EVIL alignment (I'd also debate the Lawful part as well). Make sure she understands that. Then whack her upside the head with the Paladin.

    I'd also suggest you give a freehand to the Good PCs in the party in dealing with her. Frankly IMHO blantant mass slaughter of villagers for kicks is the sort of thing that that fully entitles good PCs to turn on a comrade and execute them. At the very least it makes it awfully hard to justify continuing to hang with her.

    Stephen E

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen_E View Post
    I suggest you point out to Beth that she is playing her PC as major EVIL alignment (I'd also debate the Lawful part as well). Make sure she understands that. Then whack her upside the head with the Paladin.

    I'd also suggest you give a freehand to the Good PCs in the party in dealing with her. Frankly IMHO blantant mass slaughter of villagers for kicks is the sort of thing that that fully entitles good PCs to turn on a comrade and execute them. At the very least it makes it awfully hard to justify continuing to hang with her.
    Hear, hear! As DM, you have final say over the PC's alignment. From the moment she started playing "Commoners 4 meat shields timez!", her alignment hit LE. I usually go with a looser interpretation of alignement, but this is very straightforward.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by rtg0922 View Post
    Basically, don't call in a Paladin to hunt down your vampire, just have a BAD-ASS NORMAL DUDE. Not a Paladin, not a spell-slinger, not even a Fighter - just a Commoner with an old rusty sword on the road looking to kill the vampire that led his whole family and town to their doom.

    The other stuff (the Survivor prestige class from the Savage Species book, and the Human Paragon levels) isn't necessary is just to make him slightly better when the time to fight actually comes.
    I have to say , I second this idea most heartedly. It would be awesome. But , yeah, tell her what she did wrong first , give her time to turn around if she doesn't sic her.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    How long did this battle last for the vampire to fly two hours away, vampirize an entire town and then fly back? Did the party call "time out" and ask the demons to wait for her return? And did these idiot townfolk even try to defend themselves?

    That said, the slaughter of an entire town is grounds for divine intervention as well as mortal. If your other party members won't deal with her, drop a rock on her in the form of a squad of celestials. It's probably going to create some animosity at the table, but you've got no choice.
    Last edited by FoE; 2009-01-10 at 11:07 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    I agree, show her who's boss by getting someone to kick her butt. It doesn't even need to be supernatural, vampires have enough glaring weaknesses that anyone who might possess the knowledge of how to defeat one can be a genuine threat.

    Sunlight, stakes, garlic, mirrors, running water, these are all common materials that anyone can obtain. No need to have some celestial come down and drop a bridge on her, a well informed crowd of commoners with torches and pitchforks will do the trick. For such powerful creatures, vampires have way more vulnerabilities than most undead.

    My favorite is holy symbols. You don't have to be able to turn undead, you don't even have to worship the deity in question, you don't need a roll and the vamp doesn't get a save. It doesn't even need to be a good deity. Heck, Orcus' holy symbol would do, and he's the god of undead creatures.

    Since you mentioned that the other players dislike her behavior, simply point out the long list of weaknesses she possesses. They don't need to kill her, but they can invest in some everyday items and make it clear to her that should she cross the line again they have her number.
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
    My favorite is holy symbols. [...] It doesn't even need to be a good deity. Heck, Orcus' holy symbol would do, and he's the god of undead creatures.
    Well, technically Evil gods use UNHOLY symbols and Vampire Weaknesses specifically says HOLY symbols (and also, Vamp Clerics should still be allowed to use Unholy symbols without problem), but I think one of Orcus is appropriate. Either way, it's a cool idea. In fact, Froogleyboy, you should definitely check out the Weakness section of the Vampire entry and throw all KINDS of stuff from there at your pesky vamp character.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-01-10 at 11:23 PM.
    The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froogleyboy View Post
    I pulled the control undead stuff but our vampire has an "admirer" another guy in our group (A Half-gold dragon Half-orc) protected her by rolling two criticals on the leader of the group of demons (which killed it) the succubi fled.

    You being the DM allows you to do such things as, you know, screw with the dice roll.

    You could also penalize the OTHER players for putting up with it--got any paladins, clerics, or (god forbid) druids in the party? They shouldn't be that keen on travelling with an always chaotic evil race like vampires in the first place. Make them lose their spellcasting and supernatural abilities until they 'atone' and I imagine your vampire PC will quickly clean up her act.

    Or the party members will kill her and she'll be forced to roll up another one. On the other hand, killing generally isn't a good way to redeem oneself, especially if it's a travelling companion. It might also create some, er, tension between the players.

    rtg0922: Good clerics use holy symbols to turn undead. Evil clerics use unholy symbols to rebuke undead--good clerics dust undead, evil clerics control 'em. Also, it's debatable on whether or not Orcus himself is actually able to grant spells. It's up to the DM to judge whether or not the Arch-Dukes and Demon Princes have the divine spark.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by rtg0922 View Post
    Oh man, I just had an AWESOME idea. Instead of a Paladin called in by a priest in some sort of divine deus ex machina, you should totally have this survivor be a Commoner who constantly stalks the vampire in order to exact revenge for his losses. Bonus points if you give him the Survivor PrC from Savage Species and make him a Human Paragon or something like that.
    How is the Deus ex machina? The Vampire killed the population of an entire town! That's like putting a giant neon sign saying "INVESTIGATE OH GREAT CLERICS WHO CAN CAST SPEAK WITH DEAD." Having nothing happen is deus ex machina. Having the word put out that there's a female Vampire running around is the natural course of things.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    'Nother idea: got a cleric or druid in the party? Look up the spell Spark of Life from SPC. It can temporarily rob an undead creature of its many immunities. Seeing as this won't take away any of its weaknesses, it can seriously cripple a vampire, who is now vulnerable to just about everything a normal human is, as well as a ton of stuff on top of that.

    The mere knowledge that a party member has a trick like that in their arsenal would make any vampire think twice before stepping out of line.
    Last edited by Starscream; 2009-01-10 at 11:49 PM.
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Into every generation, a Slayer is born.

    Bring in a tiny blonde chick with a fancy template and monk levels. Then...

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    The massacre of an entire village is the stuff legends are made of ... making those kind of waves makes a person easy to find (ie. Vision will find out what she looks like). Is there a CN rogue in the party by any chance (they aren't exactly rare). That wanted poster in the next town with a 50K gold reward might persuade him he'd rather do without the vampire chick.

    PS. ask for her character sheet for a moment and change her alignment to CE.

    PPS. "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out."
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2009-01-11 at 12:09 AM.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Wait... how did she bite everyone? Did she knock on every door in town and ask to come in... and they all let her? You don't need to hide in the cellar to avoid D&D vamps, you can hide in your comfy house and just flip her off when she comes knocking. Heck! You could have all the doors and windows open even.

    Have the party encounter streams, rivers, open sewers, whatever. She can't cross them unless she's resting in her coffin and being carried, meaning she can't fly over them I believe.


    Also, she must've turned them all into spawn because well... you can't dominate some commoners and have them go punch a demon in the face, kind of goes against the whole "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out" part of the spell.

    edit: Spawn take at least 1 day to rise... by RAW what she did should pretty much be impossible. Correct?
    Last edited by Asbestos; 2009-01-11 at 12:11 AM.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Froogleyboy View Post
    She is supposed to be LN.
    AHAHAHAHA. Well, she's not anymore.

    Slaughtering a whole village = Summon Rival Adventuring Party spell. Don't just send in one Paladin: send in his whole coterie in case the party decides to be idiots and defend her.
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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeful View Post
    How is the Deus ex machina?
    Well, it's not really a D.E.M., but I just don't particularly like that the only survivor is a cleric that "calls in the cavalry."

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    Wait... how did she bite everyone?
    Maybe we're talking about some combination of vampire spawn from biting them AND dominated victims from just the dominate SLA? Ah, right, ninja'd on the edit above - forgot about that whole "no suicidal missions" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    Did she knock on every door in town and ask to come in... and they all let her? You don't need to hide in the cellar to avoid D&D vamps, you can hide in your comfy house and just flip her off when she comes knocking. Heck! You could have all the doors and windows open even.

    Have the party encounter streams, rivers, open sewers, whatever. She can't cross them unless she's resting in her coffin and being carried, meaning she can't fly over them I believe.
    Man... now that I think about ALL the weaknesses of vampires, I realize I'd NEVER want to play a Vampire PC. I mean, the +8 LA just sucks, but those weaknesses really mean you almost HAVE to retire since you'd never be able to go really anywhere.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-01-11 at 12:10 AM.
    The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quick and easy way to shut her up. Force them to go to a dungeon which requires you to pass under a waterfall to enter. Moving water. BAM! Hell, just to really tick her off start placing traps in your dungeon that will constantly cast Create Water over random doorways when triggered. Let's see her try to move through there when every single door she opens results in creating a new waterfall. Then make it so all the water drains towards the middle of the dungeon. Not only are you creating a waterfall, but you're creating rivers too. Of course, don't make it obvious that that's what's happening right away. Just have the water trickle down at first. After 5 or 6 of the traps have been activated have it turn into a full river. By the time she realizes what's happening she should have quite a bit of river to wade through to get back out. Want a real kicker? Make the entrance to the dungeon small enough they have to crawl in so she can't bring her coffin, then have the dungeon a labyrinth. Or, if the coffin's made of wood, have it so the river creates a whirlpool in the middle of the dungeon and let the coffin get sucked in.

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    Default Re: So many meat shields

    Quote Originally Posted by rtg0922 View Post
    Man... now that I think about ALL the weaknesses of vampires, I realize I'd NEVER want to play a Vampire PC. I mean, the +8 LA just sucks, but those weaknesses really mean you almost HAVE to retire since you'd never be able to go really anywhere.
    That's why vamps live in castles and just let people come to them, its really the only thing they can do.


    edit: Just noticed something else. Her 'admirer' is a half-Gold Dragon?? Is he aware that his race choice gives him quite the predilection towards LG? Please tell me he isn't.
    Last edited by Asbestos; 2009-01-11 at 12:20 AM.

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