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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

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    Dec 2008
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    Default ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    To balance out my Nine Hells-focused Ninefold Damnation ('cause devils are sticklers for symmetry), I present an Abyss-focused discipline, Infinite Torment. Like the last one, the flavor text for all of these is taken from Manual of the Planes and Fiendish Codex I. All feedback is appreciated. Enjoy!

    Infinite Torment


    The Infinite Layers of the Abyss—six words that strike fear into the heart of every champion of morality and justice. The discipline of Infinite Torment is the path of the Sublime Way invented by abyssal martial adepts, drawing on the power of the Infinite Layers of the Abyss and their inhabitants. Many of its maneuvers emphasize the similarity of its practitioners to demons—granting signature demon abilities or abilities of chaos and evil—while others emphasize the different layers of the Abyss and demon princes.

    The weapons associated with the Infinite Torment discipline are the longsword, whip, spiked chain, and claw, signature weapons of the marilith, balor, and glabrezu, respectively. The key skill for Infinite Torment is Intimidate.

    Infinite Torment Maneuver List
    1st Level
    • Strike Grazz't's Guile Feint and deal extra damage against a foe.
    • Boost Defensive Cloud Deal acid damage to attackers.
    • Counter Blasphemous Sacrifice Draw blood from your opponents for morale bonuses to attack and damage.
    • Stance Dance of Infinite Portals Teleport short distances to escape danger.

    2nd Level
    • Strike Dance of Ruin Build up energy, then release it in a burst.
    • Strike Fury of Orcus Deal damage with a touch attack.
    • Boost Yeenoghu's Flail Attack multiple times with the same weapon.

    3rd Level
    • Counter Marilith Frenzy Take multiple attacks of opportunity when an enemy provokes.
    • Counter Dagon's Doomsong Lure enemy towards you and gain a free attack.
    • Boost Unerring Blows Ignore cover, concealment, and other impediments.

    4th Level
    • Strike Fiendish Affliction Deal one negative level.
    • Strike Nabassu's Hunger Have a chance of treating a melee attack as a coup de grace.
    • Stance Abyssal Barrier Gain potent defenses against lawful and good creatures.

    5th Level
    • Strike Balor Tactics Deal fire damage and entangle targets.
    • Boost Form of Madness Cause fear in creatures viewing you.
    • Misc. Fraz-Urb'luu's Deception Summon a demon, with a chance that it will betray you.

    6th Level
    • Strike Baphomet's Breath Breathe a cone of unholy water.
    • Strike Possessing Touch Control an enemy's actions temporarily.
    • Misc. Temptation Gain a random benefit in exchange for a random penalty.

    7th Level
    • Strike Dark Entrapment Creatures are trapped in stasis and forgotten.
    • Counter Skin of Juiblex Deal acid damage to attackers, gain grapple bonuses.
    • Stance Abyssal Emissary Gain some traits of the tanar'ri, loumara, and obyrith.

    8th Level
    • Strike Abduction Teleport self and touched creature
    • Boost Demogorgon's Minds Take an extra standard action.
    • Stance Abyssal Incarnation Gain the Fiendish and Anarchic templates.

    9th Level
    • Strike Infinite Chaos Deal random damage or inflict random effects.


    1st Level
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    Grazz't's Guile
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 1
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    “Although a master tactician and accomplished swordfighter, Graz'zt's true strengths lie in seduction and guile. It is not by force alone, he realizes, that one can win control, but by controlling those who think they are in control.”
    Taking a page from Graz'zt's book, you trip up your opponent and use his strengths against him. As part of a single melee attack, make a feint attempt against your target. If you succeed, you deal extra damage equal to the difference between your Bluff result and your target's Sense Motive result (in addition to the normal effects of a feint). If you fail, your attempt backfires and you take a -2 penalty on the attack roll.

    Defensive Cloud
    Infinite Torment (Boost) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Area: 10-foot-radius emanation, centered on you
    Duration: 1d6 rounds
    “A mane is bloated with rot and rancid gas. When a mane dies, it dissolves into a cloud of noxious vapor.”
    You can surround yourself with a cloud of acidic vapor that erupts from your every pore, mimicking a mane's death throes. Any creature moving through the emanation takes 1d4 acid damage, and any creature attacking you takes an additional 1d4 acid damage every time it does so. The acid cloud is not very cohesive, so when you move, the acid dissipates and reforms at your new location without harming creatures you move past. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    Blasphemous Sacrifice
    Infinite Torment (Counter) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 1
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Special; see text
    “Eons ago, several powerful tanar'ri tricked a dozen astral devas into visiting the Abyss for a council of peace. After a brief challenge, the demons bound the envoys to the towering trunks of twelve mighty trees in a desolate layer, sacrificing them in a vile arcane ritual that forever infused the layer with evil energies.”
    You strike back when you are attacked—not simply to retaliate, but to draw blood and offer it to a demonic patron. When an enemy makes a successful attack against you, they provoke an attack of opportunity; if your attack of opportunity hits, the enemy receives a bleeding wound, which deals 1 damage per round thereafter in addition to the normal damage from your attack. The bleeding can only be stopped by a successful Heal check (DC 15) or the application of any cure spell or other healing spell. In every round the target takes bleeding damage, you gain a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls against that target, as the evil emanating from the creature's wound fills you with euphoria.

    Dance of Infinite Portals
    Infinite Torment (Stance) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    “The top layer of the Abyss is Pazunia, also known as the Plain of Infinite Portals. It is a realm of windswept barrens and jagged tors flickering with swarms of winged demons. And everywhere are massive pits that plunge into deeper layers of terror.”
    The Plain of Infinite Portals is honeycombed with a myriad of portals to various other layers of the Abyss; you can draw on it to exploit minor instabilities in the fabric of your current plane to transport yourself out of harm's way. Once per round, as an immediate action, you may make a Fortitude save against a single melee or ranged attack directed at you before, with a DC equal to your opponent's attack roll. If your save is successful, you take half damage from the attack and may teleport up to 10 feet in a direction of your choice. Once you have avoided an attack, you must wait 1 round before doing so again. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    2nd Level
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    Dance of Ruin
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 2
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver
    Initiation Action: 3 or more actions; see text
    Range: Personal
    Area: 15-foot-radius burst
    Duration: Special; see text
    “Vrocks are vicious fighters who like to fly down into the enemy and cause as much damage as possible. They prance about in battle, taking briefly to the air or dancing wildly and chanting.”
    Where vrocks normally require three of their number to perform a dance of ruin and lay waste to a battlefield, you can channel enough demonic energy to perform one yourself; however, the power of your dance is greatly reduced. You must spend three rounds gathering the energy, after which waves of crackling energy flash outward in a 15-foot radius to damage your enemies. The damage dealt is dependent on which actions you use to channel the energy in a round, adding up the from each round to get the total: If you use a swift action, it deals 1d6 damage for that round; if you use a move action, it deals 1d10 damage; if you use a standard action, it deals 2d6 damage; if you use two or more of your actions, it deals 3d6 damage; and if you use all three of your actions, it deals 4d8 damage. You do not need to use the same action in each round; for example, a crusader who spent a swift action channeling this maneuver in the first round and two move actions channeling it in the following two rounds would deal 1d4+2d10 damage. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Fury of Orcus
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 2
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver, chaotic or evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee touch
    Target: One creature
    “Orcus relies heavily on his wand in combat, much preferring to engage foes in melee. Attacks with his free claw, gore, and poison tail are almost afterthoughts.”
    Orcus isn't the only one who can channel dark, entropic energy through his weapons. As part of this maneuver, make a single melee touch attack. If you hit, you deal 5d6 damage if the target is lawful and good, 3d6 if the target is lawful or good, and 1d6 damage if the target is neither lawful nor good. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Yeenoghu's Flail
    Infinite Torment (Boost) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 2
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver, chaotic alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Until the beginning of your next turn
    “Bestial and straightforward, Yeenoghu is more likely to charge into melee growling and screaming epithets before doing anything more subtle. Yeenoghu's signature weapon is a three-headed flail, which he uses to great effect.”
    You attempt to mimic Yeenoghu's unique fighting style, striking your opponent three times with a single attack. Each time you make a melee attack during the duration of this maneuver, roll three attack rolls instead of one. If you hit with 1 roll, deal minimum damage; if you hit with 2 rolls, deal average damage; if you hit with 3 rolls, deal your maximum normal damage. For example, if your normal damage is 2d6+4, you would deal 6 damage after hitting with 1 roll, 11 damage after hitting with 2 rolls, and 16 damage after hitting with all 3 rolls.


    3rd Level
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    Dagon's Doomsong
    Infinite Torment (Counter) [Chaos] [Evil] [Mind-affecting] [Sonic]
    Level: Crusader 3
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver, evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: 30 feet
    Target: One creature
    Duration: 1 round
    Saving Throw: Will partial
    “Dagon can create a hypnotic, rumbling song that can lure nearby creatures to his location Hazardous environments are ignored—an air-breathing creature blissfully walks into the ocean to reach Dagon if he succumbs to this effect.”
    You can hum a subsonic note that can, while not as powerful as Dagon's song, draw an enemy into danger, heedless of his own safety. If an enemy attacks your or an ally, you may initiate this maneuver to attempt to draw an enemy to you. One target within range must make a Will save (DC 13 + your Charisma modifier) or his attack is lost and he is forced to move towards you (up to half his movement speed) in an attempt to end up adjacent to you; he provokes attacks of opportunity as normal from movement and suffers any other harmful effect from moving to you (such as moving through caltrops, moving over a pit, etc.), though he may make any saving throws to which he is entitled by virtue of this movement. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Marilith Frenzy
    Infinite Torment (Counter) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 3
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver, chaotic alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous
    “Though mariliths thrive on grand strategy and army-level tactics, they love physical combat and never pass up an opportunity to fight. Each of a marilith’s six arms can wield a weapon, and the creature makes good use of this.”
    You have studied marilith tactics in detail, and you put this knowledge to use with this maneuver; now that you can fight like a six-armed creature, using your two arms is three times as effective. If an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity, you may initiate this counter to take a full attack against him rather than a single attack of opportunity. These attacks still only count as a single attack of opportunity.

    Unerring Blows
    Infinite Torment (Boost) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 3
    Prerequisites: 1 Infinite Torment maneuver, evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round
    “A retriever specializes in recovering lost or desired objects, runaway slaves, and enemies and bringing them back to its master. When ordered to find an item or a creature, a retriever does so unerringly.”
    Channeling a retriever's senses, you can home in on your target no matter how hard he tries to hide. For the duration of this maneuver, you may replace any Spot checks you make with Intimidate checks. In addition, you ignore less than total concealment, miss chances granted by magical abilities, and anything less than total cover when making melee attacks. You can automatically pick out the correct image when facing a target affected by mirror image.


    4th Level
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    Fiendish Affliction
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 4
    Prerequisites: 2 Infinite Torment maneuvers, evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: 30 feet
    Target: One creature
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
    Duration: Instantaneous and special; see text
    “The strange and horrific obyriths are primeval demons from eons past. They wrought chaos and evil upon the multiverse before the advent of intelligent life on the material plane. Their forms are hideous to behold, and their merest touch can corrupt mortal creatures.”
    Beseeching the most ancient of demons for a fragment of their power, you blast an enemy with fiendish energies. As part of this maneuver, make a ranged touch attack. If it succeeds, your target must make a Fortitude save (DC 14 + Charisma modifier) or gain one negative level. The negative level persists for 8 hours, at which point the target must make another save at the same DC to avoid it becoming permanent; the negative level may not be magically removed before this time. A given creature may only take one negative level from a single initiator at once. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Nabassu's Hunger
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 4
    Prerequisites: 2 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    Saving Throw: Reflex partial
    Duration: Instantaneous and 1 round; see text
    “A nabassu can feed on the body of a helpless living opponent, devouring both its flesh and life force.”
    As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack as a full-round action. When you hit, your opponent must make a Reflex save (DC 14 + your Charisma modifier) or the attack counts as a coup de grace attempt; if your opponent succeeds, it simply deals normal melee damage. If you successfully make a coup de grace attempt, whether the opponent is killed or not you gain a +1 profane bonus on all d20 rolls and 5 temporary hit points until the beginning of your next turn.

    Abyssal Barrier
    Infinite Torment (Stance) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 4
    Prerequisites: 2 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic alignment or evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    “The squabbling of the obyriths was but a fragment of a much larger narrative, for the era of the Age before Ages was a time of war, where the first conflicts between law and chaos had boiled over from the Inner Planes into the still-forming Outer and Material Planes.”
    Demons long ago learned that they needed to protect themselves from creatures of law and good. You have learned to emanate the same protective wards, and even enhance them if you concentrate that energy in a smaller area. While this maneuver is in effect, you constantly gain the benefits of protection from good, protection from law, and entropic shield. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    5th Level
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    Balor Tactics
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 5
    Prerequisites: 3 Infinite Torment maneuvers, neutral evil/chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack and 15 feet; see text
    Target: One creature
    Saving Throw: Reflex partial
    Duration: Until the beginning of your next turn
    “No balor is found without its flame tongue or lightning bolt sword and its flaming, entangling whip.”
    You must have a free hand capable of wielding a weapon to initiate this maneuver. As part of this maneuver, you manifest a balor's signature blade-and-whip combination out of distilled chaotic energy, temporarily changing any weapon you may be holding into a flaming shocking weapon with an enhancement bonus equal to 1/3 your initiator level, or creating a flaming shocking longsword if your hand is free, and creating a flaming burst whip in your other hand with the same enhancement bonus. When you initiate this maneuver, make a single melee attack with the whip at an opponent within 15 feet; if you hit, your target is entangled. Your target must make a Reflex save (DC 15 + Charisma modifier) or be pulled adjacent to you; if it is pulled to you, you may make a single melee attack with your other weapon. Whether your target was pulled to you or not, it is entangled until your weapons disappear at the beginning of your next turn. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Form of Madness
    Infinite Torment (Boost) [Chaos] [Evil] [Fear] [Mind-affecting]
    Level: Crusader 5
    Prerequisites: 3 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic neutral/chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Area: 10-foot-radius emanation, centered on you
    Duration: 2 rounds
    “Obyriths appear in forms so noxious and horrific that those near an obyrith who observe it are afflicted with some form of madness or insanity.”
    You wrap yourself in the aura of an obyrith, warping the minds of all who see you. When you initiate this maneuver, you seem more fearsome and alien for an instant, forcing any enemies who can see you to make a Will save (DC 15 + your Charisma modifier) or be subject to the effects of an insanity spell for the duration of this maneuver. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Fraz-Urb'luu's Deception
    Infinite Torment [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 5
    Prerequisites: 3 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic neutral/chaotic evil
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: 10 feet
    Effect: One summoned demon
    Duration: Until the end of the encounter
    “Fraz-Urb'luu's most notorious ability is his knack for deceiving other powerful demon lords into believing they have been summoned by some foolish mortal Demons deceived in this manner quickly realize what has happened and usually fly into a fury and attack anything within sight as a result.”
    While you may not be able to deceive demon lords, you find lesser demons easy to fool into serving you for a time. As a full-round action, you may summon a demon and attempt to coerce it into serving you. You may summon any type of demon that you wish with a CR less than or equal to your initiator level, but it has a percentage chance of attacking you when summoned equal to 10 + 3 times its CR. The demon lasts for the duration of the encounter whether it is attacking you or its enemies; if it runs out of enemies to attack, it will begin to attack you and your allies. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    6th Level
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    Baphomet's Breath
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 6
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, neutral evil/chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: 30 feet
    Target: 15-foot cone and several 5-foot-radius spreads; see text
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Duration: Instantaneous and one round; see text
    “Baphomet's roar can inspire fear, and his breath is a gout of unholy water infused with negative energy.”
    As part of this maneuver, you breath a cone of vile water infused with evil power that deals 5d6 damage to all creatures in its area, or half damage with a successful Reflex save (DC 16 + your Charisma modifier for evil targets, or DC 20 + your Charisma modifier for good or morally neutral targets). In addition, the water drips off its targets and forms pools of foul water; until the beginning of your next turn, the spaces of any creatures hit by the cone are full of unholy water, which deals 1d6 damage to good or neutral creatures passing through those spaces and counts as difficult terrain. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Possessing Touch
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 6
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, neutral evil/chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: One creature
    Target: You
    Duration: 3 rounds
    “Sometimes a fiend has the supernatural ability to possess other creatures. In its most feared form of possession, a fiend can take direct control over its victim's actions.”
    When you initiate this strike, make a touch attack against a single creature; if he fails a Will save (DC 16 + your Charisma modifier) you control his actions for the duration of this maneuver as if using a dominate monster spell. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Temptation
    Infinite Torment [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 6
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic neutral/chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Until the end of the encounter
    “If a creature utters the name 'Pazuzu' three times in succession, an unholy link between the speaker and Pazuzu is immediately established. Once he arrives, Pazuzu asks the speaker why he called upon the Prince of the Lower Aerial kingdoms. Pazuzu almost always agrees to provide aid, but if he does, the caller is corrupted.”
    You may not be brave or important enough to request Pazuzu to come to you, but you can call on one of his servants for a small measure of assistance. When you initiate this maneuver, make an Intimidate check as a full-round action to see if a demon will answer your call. The result of this check determines the benefit you gain; you may choose the benefit for your check result or any lower result:
    {table=head]Result|Benefit
    25 or less|None; Pazuzu's minions refuse to heed your call
    26-30|A minor avian demon reluctantly grants you skill; you may reroll an attack roll three times during the encounter and take the better result.
    31-35|A minion of Pazuzu agrees to grant you power; you may reroll one damage die three times during the encounter and take the better result.
    36-40|Pazuzu's servant grants you luck; you may reroll a save three times during the encounter and take the better result.
    41-45|A powerful avian demon grants you mobility; you gain a fly speed equal to half your land speed (average maneuverability) for three rounds, broken up as desired.
    46-50|Pazuzu's favored demon eagerly grants you agility; you gain three extra attacks at your full base attack bonus when making a full attack, distributed as desired.
    51 or more|Pazuzu personally grants you a boon; you may either remove a single harmful effect (dispelling a spell requires a dispel check with your initiator level as the caster level), automatically hit with one attack, or grant a creature a -7 penalty to one save.[/table]
    After using this maneuver, you must make a DC 16 Will save to resist changing alignment. If you fail and your alignment is nonchaotic, it becomes one step closer to chaotic; if you fail and are already chaotic, your alignment becomes one step closer to evil. If you are already chaotic evil, you do not need to make a save, but Pazuzu is displeased that you need his aid and the benefit you gain from your Intimidate check is lowered by one step (so for example a result of 31 would only let you choose from the first four benefits and a result of 15 would gain you no benefit at all). This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    7th Level
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    Dark Entrapment
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 7
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: 30 feet
    Target: One creature
    Saving Throw: Reflex partial
    Duration: Until the end of the encounter or until saved against; see text
    “A series of pools on the 73rd layer of the Abyss—the eponymous Wells of Darkness—contain some of the most vile and accursed prisoners in the multiverse, let alone the Abyss. The inky black liquid of the pools somehow restrains those submerged into it, preventing escape but allowing a very primitive form of telepathic communication that serves only to prove that the captives have not yet been erased from existence.”
    As part of this maneuver, you encapsulate a single foe in a bit of the material from the Wells of Darkness. The creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 17 + your Charisma modifier) or be engulfed in this liquid and affected as if by a hold monster spell. Even if the creature succeeds, he is entangled for the duration of the encounter. Whether the creature saves or not, he is unable to speak until the liquid wears off (the duration of the encounter), though he can speak telepathically in any language he knows, so he can communicate but cannot use any ability relying on speaking or sound to deliver its effects. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Skin of Juiblex
    Infinite Torment (Counter) [Chaos] [Evil] [Acid]
    Level: Crusader 7
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 6 rounds
    “A shuddering, glistening cone of jelly and slime striated with veins of black and green rears up from the pit. Baleful red eyes swim in the thing's gelatinous body, and dripping pseudopods of tremulous ooze writhe with latent hunger in every direction at once.”
    When you initiate this maneuver, some ooze like that which covers the Faceless Lord covers your body. While it lasts, Any creature striking you with its body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 3d6 points of damage. Half of this damage is acid damage, but half results directly from unholy power and is not subject to reduction by energy resistance or the like. Creatures wielding weapons with exceptional reach are not subject to this damage if they attack you. In addition, you gain a bonus to grapple checks equal to your initiator level. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Abyssal Emissary
    Infinite Torment (Stance) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 7
    Prerequisites: 4 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    “The most populous of the demon subtypes, the tanar'ri form the largest and most diverse group of demons. The loumaras represent an emergent demonic subtype; even so, they have plagued the Material Plane for ages. The strange and horrifying obyriths are primeval demons who wrought chaos and evil upon the multiverse before the advent of intelligent life on the Material Plane.”
    You have learned to draw on the properties of many kinds of demons for protection. While this maneuver is in effect, you constantly gain two of the following: immunity to acid, immunity to electricity; immunity to fire; immunity to poison; immunity to mind-affecting effects; cold resistance 10; constant true seeing as the spell; or fast healing 5. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    8th Level
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    Abduction
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 8
    Prerequisites: 5 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    “Bar-lguras enjoy setting ambushes and attacking foes with surprise. Unlike most tanar'ri, a bar-lgura can teleport to transport other creatures.”
    You can ambush creatures like a bar-lgura, teleporting a foe away to be fought one-on-one. As a standard action, make a melee touch attack against a single creature within reach. If you succeed on the touch attack, you can teleport the touched creature as if by a dimension door spell. You teleport along with him, although you do not have to teleport to the same spot; you may appear up to (Charisma modifier x 5) feet away from the target, so you can draw him into an ambush or the like without being caught in it yourself. Alternately, you may simply teleport yourself without requiring you to touch another creature, though doing so requires a full-round rather than a standard action. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Demogorgon's Minds
    Infinite Torment (Boost) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 8
    Prerequisites: 5 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1d6 rounds
    “Inside the Prince of Demons rages a secret war for control of himself. Demogorgon, having two heads with distinct intelligences and personalities, can take two rounds' worth of actions in any given round, as if he were two creatures.”
    After extensive training, you have cultivated an unconscious mind that can act as well as your conscious mind, allowing you to accomplish twice as much as other creatures in a given time. For the duration of this boost, you can either make a single melee attack in addition to any other actions you may take in the round, or gain an additional swift action, chosen each round.

    Abyssal Incarnation
    Infinite Torment (Stance) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 8
    Prerequisites: 5 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    “Fiendish creatures dwell on the lower planes, the realms of evil; they are more fearsome in appearance than their material counterparts. Axiomatic creatures dwell on planes of chaos, the realms of disorder; they appear less finished, their features more rough and uneven, their fur or scales blotched and tattered.”
    You meditate on the ideals of Chaos and Evil, internalizing their principles; in a few moments, your features seem to be more unformed and ragged, and more frightening and terrible. While you are in this stance, you take on both the fiendish and anarchic templates.


    9th Level
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    Infinite Chaos
    Infinite Torment (Strike) [Chaos] [Evil]
    Level: Crusader 9
    Prerequisites: 5 Infinite Torment maneuvers, chaotic evil alignment
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    “The Infinite Layers of the Abyss are the physical manifestation of chaos and evil, the murderous, unpredictable underbelly of the multiverse. Each layer is a unique microcosm of terror.”
    The raw, undiluted chaos of the Abyss strikes your foe with unpredictable effect. As a standard action, make a single melee attack; if you succeed, flip a coin. If the result is heads, your target takes 6x6d6 damage. If the result is tails, roll 1d6 times on the following table:
    {table=head]d20|Result
    1-2|Nothing happens
    3-4|Target is invisible for 1d4 rounds
    5-6|Target is exhausted for 1d6 rounds
    7-8|Target is incorporeal for 1d4 rounds
    9-10|Target is shaken for 1d8 rounds
    11-12|Target is petrified for 1d4 rounds
    13-14|Target is panicked for 1d4 rounds
    15-16|Target is confused for 1d10 rounds
    17-18|Target is dazed for 1d4 rounds
    19-20|Choose one effect[/table]
    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.
    Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost; 2009-01-19 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Making changes
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Grazz't's Guile: Looks good, but you got the apostrophe in the wrong place. I'd also have the feint require a swift action, instead of having it be made as part of the attack.

    Defensive Cloud: I really dislike the variable duration–just set it at a fixed number of rounds, 3 or 5. I also think that, what with martial adepts all being melee hounds, the range should be restricted to 5 ft. instead of 10.

    Dagon's Doomsong: A bit powerful; most attack-blockers are at least 2nd level, and the ability to yank ranged attackers towards you is just too good. Maybe bump it up a couple levels (and, if you do, let it also block melee attacks).

    Dance of Infinite Portals: Your average Crusader is going to very rarely be making that Reflex save. I'd do it as a Fortitude save, specify that mettle doesn't negate the half damage, and changed the variable cooldown time to a fixed number; one round honestly wouldn't be that bad. You should also specify whether the stance's teleporting is used before or after the attack roll is made–if before, it might even be worth cutting the cooldown. The only other thing I could think of is having the teleporting effect kick in only after they finish all their attacks, so it doesn't become an easy out from full attacks at higher levels.

    Dance of Ruin: Maybe specify earlier in that the damage is totaled based on the actions you take; I initially read it as 3 swift actions=1d4 damage, and so on. I'd also boost the damage to keep it in line with hatchling's flame–1d6 for swift, 1d10 for move, 2d6 for standard, 3d6 for two actions, and 4d8 for three.

    Blasphemous Sacrifice: I'd have it work by making their attack provoke an AoO, rather than simply letting you make an extra attack. I'd also have the bonus apply only against that one foe, and cut out the stacking.

    Yeenoghu's Strike: I'd word it as making three separate attack rolls, rather than rolling 3d20. I'd also use "half your maximum damage" as opposed to average, just to keep things clear.

    Fury of Orcus: Unholy and anarchic aren't actual damage types; I'd just have it deal untyped damage. Maybe give it bonuses to damage against lawful/good foes? I'd also boost the damage to 5d6.

    Marilith Frenzy: Woah, way too much. I think maybe having it let you make a single "full attack AoO," with the first AoO not counting towards your total AoO's, might be good. As it is, it's waaay too good, with the scads and scads of AoO's, the ability to make multiple full attack AoO's, and the multi-round duration.

    Unerring Blows: I'd have it last one round.

    Fiendish Affliction: I'd take away the damage, negative levels are a pretty potent debuff to be throwing around with maneuvers already. I'd also have the negative levels not stack with each other.

    Armanite Charge: This is weird and doesn't seem to fit the feel of the discipline very well. I'd cut it altogether.

    Abyssal Barrier: I'd cut out the magic circle option altogether, it seems a bit more than what a 4th level maneuver, and it's a bit ally-friendly for this discipline.

    Balor Tactics: This one's kinda odd, but the flavor's solid. The way I'd do it is have it make the whip, do the whole entangling attack bit, and then you get a single attack with any weapon you have, so it doesn't shaft people who specialize in weapons other than longswords. I'd also have the enhancement bonus scale with initiator level.

    Form of Madness: Encounter-length, multiple target confusion? Way too good. I'd make it work parallel to Iron Heart's Dazing Blow maneuver, except with confused instead of dazed.

    Fraz-Urb'luu's Deception: The ability to summon any demon ever is just too versatile; I'd give it a stock list of 5 or so, with given percentages for their betrayal rate. Maybe range the CR's from 4-8.

    Baphomet's Breath: I'd lower the cone damage to 5d6, and the pool damage to 1d6.

    Possessing Touch: I'd do this as a strike, not a counter. Also, the duration's probably better at just one round, especially if you leave it as a counter.

    Temptation: The intimidate check's a neat mechanic, but by 11th level, a +30 modifier on Intimidate checks is pretty feasible. I'd pick one or two effects to choose from, and just let them pick. Also, things like extra attacks should have specifications on when they can be used (for instance, not with single attacks or AoO's), what BAB they're made at, and maybe a one/round limit. Also, if you're going to let it remove effects, you should avoid the Iron Heart Surge trap and have it require an initiator level check to dispell spells.

    Dark Entrapment: Encounter-length hold monster? That's a save or die right there, way too much. Maybe encounter-length entanglement with some other penalties, but not full-out paralysis.

    Skin of Jubilex: I think this'd be more fun as a counter.

    Abyssal Emissary: Far, far too many benefits. Immunity to multiple energy types and to mind-affecting abilities? True seeing? Fast healing? All in one stance? No, this one really just needs to be scrapped entirely or neutered pretty severely.

    Demorgonon's Minds: Multiple round duration is too much. I'd make it instantaneous, and let you take either a standard or move action, or two swift actions.

    Abyssal Incarnation: It's balanced just fine, but it seems a bit boring...maybe abilities that more specifically imitate certain demons would be more fun. Also, your flavor text says "axiomatic" instead of "anarchic."

    Infinite Chaos: The 6x6d6 damage bit is fun, but I'd change the "x" to a "times," just to be worded clearer. I think the status effects should probably allow a save, and given that it's a 9th level maneuver, be encounter length. The only exceptions I'd have would be exhausted (which normally doesn't have a duration), petrified and dazed (which should probably be one round each).
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Question: Is Infinite Torment supposed to trigger both the damage AND the effects when you flip a heads? If it is... then when you flip a tails, does nothing happen, since that seems..... amazingly underwhelming for a level 9 effect. Just saying.

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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    I really think that this discipline should have infinite maneuvers contained within infinite maneuver levels.

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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One View Post
    Grazz't's Guile: Looks good, but you got the apostrophe in the wrong place.
    Dammit! Will fix.

    I'd also have the feint require a swift action, instead of having it be made as part of the attack.
    Well, feinting isn't really that useful unless you combine it with sneak attack or some other effect that relies on the opponent being flat-footed, but the only extra effect here is bonus damage if you succeed, plus a chance for an attack penalty. Folding the feint into this, when a normal feint+attack could be make as a standard+move action, shouldn't be that bad.

    Defensive Cloud: I really dislike the variable duration–just set it at a fixed number of rounds, 3 or 5. I also think that, what with martial adepts all being melee hounds, the range should be restricted to 5 ft. instead of 10.
    Regarding the variable duration...this discipline is all about chaos, so a variable duration fits. If it really annoys you, I can take it out. Regarding the 10-foot reach, one of the favored weapons has a 10-foot reach and one has a 15-foot reach, so it makes sense to extend past adjacent squares.

    Dagon's Doomsong: A bit powerful; most attack-blockers are at least 2nd level, and the ability to yank ranged attackers towards you is just too good. Maybe bump it up a couple levels (and, if you do, let it also block melee attacks).
    Would it be better to just yank them towards you, instead of blocking an attack? The basic idea was that a crusader makes a good tank, so something that lets you pull someone off an ally onto you would be useful.

    Dance of Infinite Portals: Your average Crusader is going to very rarely be making that Reflex save. I'd do it as a Fortitude save, specify that mettle doesn't negate the half damage, and changed the variable cooldown time to a fixed number; one round honestly wouldn't be that bad. You should also specify whether the stance's teleporting is used before or after the attack roll is made–if before, it might even be worth cutting the cooldown. The only other thing I could think of is having the teleporting effect kick in only after they finish all their attacks, so it doesn't become an easy out from full attacks at higher levels.
    Fort save is probably a good idea. Will change. The attack roll sets the DC, so having it occur before the attack roll doesn't really work.

    Dance of Ruin: Maybe specify earlier in that the damage is totaled based on the actions you take; I initially read it as 3 swift actions=1d4 damage, and so on. I'd also boost the damage to keep it in line with hatchling's flame–1d6 for swift, 1d10 for move, 2d6 for standard, 3d6 for two actions, and 4d8 for three.
    Sounds good. Will change.

    Blasphemous Sacrifice: I'd have it work by making their attack provoke an AoO, rather than simply letting you make an extra attack. I'd also have the bonus apply only against that one foe, and cut out the stacking.
    Will change.

    Yeenoghu's Strike: I'd word it as making three separate attack rolls, rather than rolling 3d20. I'd also use "half your maximum damage" as opposed to average, just to keep things clear.
    Yeah, that's what I meant to say about the multiple attacks. Regarding average damage vs. half damage, they're actually different; if you deal 2d6+3 damage, half maximum is 7 while average damage is 10. Making it half maximum devalues any static bonuses you may have.

    Fury of Orcus: Unholy and anarchic aren't actual damage types; I'd just have it deal untyped damage. Maybe give it bonuses to damage against lawful/good foes? I'd also boost the damage to 5d6.
    For some reason, I thought that's what unholy blight and chaos hammer said, though on second look I have no idea where I got that--basically, good/lawful enemies take full damage, neutral takes half, chaotic/evil aren't affected. I think I'll just have it do a variable amount of typeless damage based on target's alignment.

    Marilith Frenzy: Woah, way too much. I think maybe having it let you make a single "full attack AoO," with the first AoO not counting towards your total AoO's, might be good. As it is, it's waaay too good, with the scads and scads of AoO's, the ability to make multiple full attack AoO's, and the multi-round duration.
    Yeah, I was a bit worried about this one, but I figured I'd leave it and see what people thought. Would making a single full attack against the triggering opponent, that doesn't count against your AoOs, with no other effects be balanced?

    Unerring Blows: I'd have it last one round.
    Will do.

    Fiendish Affliction: I'd take away the damage, negative levels are a pretty potent debuff to be throwing around with maneuvers already. I'd also have the negative levels not stack with each other.
    I suppose that works. The negative levels were never meant to stack; thanks for the catch.

    Armanite Charge: This is weird and doesn't seem to fit the feel of the discipline very well. I'd cut it altogether.
    I was trying to think of a maneuver themed around a demon, and couldn't really think of something. Do you have a better idea for a replacement?

    Abyssal Barrier: I'd cut out the magic circle option altogether, it seems a bit more than what a 4th level maneuver, and it's a bit ally-friendly for this discipline.
    Will do.

    Balor Tactics: This one's kinda odd, but the flavor's solid. The way I'd do it is have it make the whip, do the whole entangling attack bit, and then you get a single attack with any weapon you have, so it doesn't shaft people who specialize in weapons other than longswords. I'd also have the enhancement bonus scale with initiator level.
    Will do.

    Form of Madness: Encounter-length, multiple target confusion? Way too good. I'd make it work parallel to Iron Heart's Dazing Blow maneuver, except with confused instead of dazed.
    If the duration were reduced, would that be better?

    Fraz-Urb'luu's Deception: The ability to summon any demon ever is just too versatile; I'd give it a stock list of 5 or so, with given percentages for their betrayal rate. Maybe range the CR's from 4-8.
    Consider that at the same level a wizard can summon any creature ever, with the difference being that he can attempt to control creatures below a certain HD whereas a crusader with this might just get flat-out attacked. Would putting an upper limit on the type of demon summonable help?

    Baphomet's Breath: I'd lower the cone damage to 5d6, and the pool damage to 1d6.
    Can do.

    Possessing Touch: I'd do this as a strike, not a counter. Also, the duration's probably better at just one round, especially if you leave it as a counter.
    I'll change it to a strike. I originally had it at 3 rounds; would that be too much?

    Temptation: The intimidate check's a neat mechanic, but by 11th level, a +30 modifier on Intimidate checks is pretty feasible. I'd pick one or two effects to choose from, and just let them pick. Also, things like extra attacks should have specifications on when they can be used (for instance, not with single attacks or AoO's), what BAB they're made at, and maybe a one/round limit. Also, if you're going to let it remove effects, you should avoid the Iron Heart Surge trap and have it require an initiator level check to dispell spells.
    Yeah, it was originally lower level, and I suppose I forgot to increase the check results when I improved the effects. Again, I'm going for a "randomness" theme, so just saying "pick one" isn't exactly what I'm going for, though I will clarify how they work and put in an IL check.

    Dark Entrapment: Encounter-length hold monster? That's a save or die right there, way too much. Maybe encounter-length entanglement with some other penalties, but not full-out paralysis.
    Well, the spell does give you a save every round, and at this level a normal hold monster spell would last 13 rounds by default.

    Skin of Jubilex: I think this'd be more fun as a counter.
    So the same thing, just making it immediate action activation? Can do.

    Abyssal Emissary: Far, far too many benefits. Immunity to multiple energy types and to mind-affecting abilities? True seeing? Fast healing? All in one stance? No, this one really just needs to be scrapped entirely or neutered pretty severely.
    Well, first off immunity to energy types isn't really a big deal, since anyone whose strategy is "throw lots of energy damage at him" has been able to ignore it or mitigate it for a few levels now. Secondly...I was basing this on the assumption that you could have your friendly neighborhood wizard polymorph you into a demon and get all these anyway, but now that you mentioned it I double-checked and only polymorph any object gives you the extraordinary qualities. I think I'll put these in a list and let you pick 2 or 3 of them.

    Demorgonon's Minds: Multiple round duration is too much. I'd make it instantaneous, and let you take either a standard or move action, or two swift actions.
    Compare to Raging Mongoose, which gives you 4 attacks as a swift action at full BAB, or Stance of Alacrity which gives you an extra counter each round. Hmm...would making it either an extra swift action or an extra melee attack each round be better?

    Abyssal Incarnation: It's balanced just fine, but it seems a bit boring...maybe abilities that more specifically imitate certain demons would be more fun. Also, your flavor text says "axiomatic" instead of "anarchic."
    Yeah, it's boring, but it works. I'll go through FC1 and see if I can find something interesting I haven't already used.

    Infinite Chaos: The 6x6d6 damage bit is fun, but I'd change the "x" to a "times," just to be worded clearer. I think the status effects should probably allow a save, and given that it's a 9th level maneuver, be encounter length. The only exceptions I'd have would be exhausted (which normally doesn't have a duration), petrified and dazed (which should probably be one round each).
    I'll change the x. The reason the effects are short-lived is exactly that there's no save for them, and you will get 1d6 of them after all, so even if they last for only 1 round you'd have to roll really badly for the reduced-duration-no-save tradeoff to be a penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos
    Question: Is Infinite Torment supposed to trigger both the damage AND the effects when you flip a heads? If it is... then when you flip a tails, does nothing happen, since that seems..... amazingly underwhelming for a level 9 effect. Just saying
    I have no idea what you're talking about. *waves hand* You must be hallucinating.
    Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost; 2009-01-14 at 10:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    The raw, undiluted chaos of the Abyss strikes your foe with unpredictable effect. As a standard action, make a single melee attack; if you succeed, flip a coin. If the result is heads, your target takes 6x6d6 damage. If the result is heads, roll 1d6 times on the following table:
    So, yeah, heads both times. I hope that's not what it's meant to be, all or nothing fails really hard.

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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    So, yeah, heads both times. I hope that's not what it's meant to be, all or nothing fails really hard.
    Yeah, I know; I was being sarcastic, and trying to edit it out before your responded again. Hence the *waves hands*. But hey, an all-or-nothing maneuver is the epitome of chaos!

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingpoo22
    I really think that this discipline should have infinite maneuvers contained within infinite maneuver levels.
    Yeah, well just reflavor every existing discipline into demonic ones, and voila, infinite Abyssal maneuvers. You think I have time to make infinite maneuvers!?

    Oh, and made the changes in the OP; take a look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Grazz't's Guile
    Well, feinting isn't really that useful unless you combine it with sneak attack or some other effect that relies on the opponent being flat-footed, but the only extra effect here is bonus damage if you succeed, plus a chance for an attack penalty. Folding the feint into this, when a normal feint+attack could be make as a standard+move action, shouldn't be that bad.
    Good point, you're right.

    Defensive Cloud
    Regarding the variable duration...this discipline is all about chaos, so a variable duration fits. If it really annoys you, I can take it out. Regarding the 10-foot reach, one of the favored weapons has a 10-foot reach and one has a 15-foot reach, so it makes sense to extend past adjacent squares.
    Okay, the reach part makes sense now...as to the variable durations, I dislike them because they add one more dice roll into things, require a bit more effort to keep track of, and make the maneuver generally unreliable. A cloud that lasts 3 rounds is quite useful if it does so reliably; less so if it might last only one round.

    Dagon's Doomsong
    Would it be better to just yank them towards you, instead of blocking an attack? The basic idea was that a crusader makes a good tank, so something that lets you pull someone off an ally onto you would be useful.
    Enemy-yanking's a neat effect, but it's too much for a 1st level maneuver. Think how badly that would shaft over anyone who's fighting with a bow, for example.

    Dance of Infinite Portals
    Fort save is probably a good idea. Will change. The attack roll sets the DC, so having it occur before the attack roll doesn't really work.
    You could require them to take the action before the attack, then make the save afterwards.

    Yeenoghu's Strike
    Yeah, that's what I meant to say about the multiple attacks. Regarding average damage vs. half damage, they're actually different; if you deal 2d6+3 damage, half maximum is 7 while average damage is 10. Making it half maximum devalues any static bonuses you may have.
    What I'd meant by half maximum is only half the maximum dice roll, not factoring in static bonuses. Should've made that clearer.

    Marilith Frenzy
    Yeah, I was a bit worried about this one, but I figured I'd leave it and see what people thought. Would making a single full attack against the triggering opponent, that doesn't count against your AoOs, with no other effects be balanced?
    I think for the full attack AoO, a good balancing factor might be having it count as your only AoO's for the round, even if you'd normally get more. For a discipline with as much reach-lovin' as this, the maneuver could easily let you pull off four or five AoO's on an enemy just for coming close enough to hit you.

    Armanite Charge
    I was trying to think of a maneuver themed around a demon, and couldn't really think of something. Do you have a better idea for a replacement?
    If you want to keep the Armanite theme...maybe a charge that alters terrain, or that has some sort of funky impaling effect that lets you pin a foe. Just throwing ideas out there.

    Form of Madness
    If the duration were reduced, would that be better?
    Even with reduced duration, being able to hit multiple targets is pretty killer.

    Fraz-Urb'luu's Deception
    Consider that at the same level a wizard can summon any creature ever, with the difference being that he can attempt to control creatures below a certain HD whereas a crusader with this might just get flat-out attacked. Would putting an upper limit on the type of demon summonable help?
    Keep in mind that the easy reusability of maneuvers means their effects tend to be a bit less dramatic than that of spells of the same level. Also, the maneuver's more comparable to summon monster spells than planar binding, and most of the summon monster V creatures are about CR 5. An upper limit would certainly help, though.

    Possession
    I'll change it to a strike. I originally had it at 3 rounds; would that be too much?
    Mmm, not sure, there's not much existing to balance it against. I'd be prone to err on the side of caution and make it just one round, but that's just my gut instinct.

    Dark Entrapment
    Well, the spell does give you a save every round, and at this level a normal hold monster spell would last 13 rounds by default.
    Again, maneuvers and spell effects don't balance out exactly–and giving a melee type the ability to paralyze lets them coup de grace oh so very easily, more so if it's long-lasting.

    Abyssal Emissary
    Well, first off immunity to energy types isn't really a big deal, since anyone whose strategy is "throw lots of energy damage at him" has been able to ignore it or mitigate it for a few levels now. Secondly...I was basing this on the assumption that you could have your friendly neighborhood wizard polymorph you into a demon and get all these anyway, but now that you mentioned it I double-checked and only polymorph any object gives you the extraordinary qualities. I think I'll put these in a list and let you pick 2 or 3 of them.
    I still think it's a bit much...not many abilities let you pick and choose from energy immunities, as well as the incredibly useful immunity to mind-affecting abilities, with unlimited duration. An ability granting any one of those would be very powerful for that level; letting them choose from multiple abilities or using more than one just approaches overpoweredness.

    Demorgonon's Minds
    Compare to Raging Mongoose, which gives you 4 attacks as a swift action at full BAB, or Stance of Alacrity which gives you an extra counter each round. Hmm...would making it either an extra swift action or an extra melee attack each round be better?
    As long as it was just a standard melee attack, very much so. What I was afraid of was it letting you spam 9th level maneuvers, two at a time, for a big chunk of turns. It'd be the kind of maneuver any martial adept would take with Martial Lore or multiclassing.
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Yeah, I know; I was being sarcastic, and trying to edit it out before your responded again. Hence the *waves hands*. But hey, an all-or-nothing maneuver is the epitome of chaos.
    Oh yes, I know. I just felt like being mean (in the spirit of the Abyss).

    Anyways, I totally dig the changes. Now, I'll excuse myself before I decide to start channeling Fraz Urb'luu.
    Last edited by arguskos; 2009-01-15 at 12:34 AM.

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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One View Post
    Okay, the reach part makes sense now...as to the variable durations, I dislike them because they add one more dice roll into things, require a bit more effort to keep track of, and make the maneuver generally unreliable. A cloud that lasts 3 rounds is quite useful if it does so reliably; less so if it might last only one round.
    Hmm...I'd like to keep the randomness, but reducing it would be good. Perhaps 1d4+1 rounds, so you're assured of 2 rounds, but you could have more if you're lucky.

    Enemy-yanking's a neat effect, but it's too much for a 1st level maneuver. Think how badly that would shaft over anyone who's fighting with a bow, for example.
    What level do you think it would fit in? I could always shuffle it around and weaken another maneuver to compensate, but it's a neat effect like you said, and I want to keep it somehow.

    You could require them to take the action before the attack, then make the save afterwards.
    So basically, "You must use this ability before you know the result of the attack roll, but the attack roll still sets the Fort save DC"?

    What I'd meant by half maximum is only half the maximum dice roll, not factoring in static bonuses. Should've made that clearer.
    Eh, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea; if you leave out static bonuses, then you're penalizing the crusader, because you're likely to do less damage with the maneuver than without.

    I think for the full attack AoO, a good balancing factor might be having it count as your only AoO's for the round, even if you'd normally get more. For a discipline with as much reach-lovin' as this, the maneuver could easily let you pull off four or five AoO's on an enemy just for coming close enough to hit you.
    Can do.

    If you want to keep the Armanite theme...maybe a charge that alters terrain, or that has some sort of funky impaling effect that lets you pin a foe. Just throwing ideas out there.
    I wasn't particularly attached to the armanite, it was just an interesting idea that presented itself. Hmm...*flip flip flip* aha! The Nabassu has a barghest-ish Feed ability, so a Tiger Claw-ish maneuver that grants bonuses when you kill enemies would be appropriate. Writeup coming soon to an OP near you.

    Even with reduced duration, being able to hit multiple targets is pretty killer.
    True; however, confusion isn't the most disabling condition--it's basically a 20% chance to attack you, a 30% chance to be dazed, a 20% chance to withdraw, and a 30% chance to attack an ally or enemy. 1/3 of the time it's an effect you can get anyway, 1/2 the time the target can act as it wishes (i.e., attack you and your allies) unless the nearest creature is an enemy, and 1/5 of the time the target is effectively panicked.

    Keep in mind that the easy reusability of maneuvers means their effects tend to be a bit less dramatic than that of spells of the same level. Also, the maneuver's more comparable to summon monster spells than planar binding, and most of the summon monster V creatures are about CR 5. An upper limit would certainly help, though.
    Right now it's a creature with HD up to your IL. When you first get it, you can either summon a 9 HD creature...or you have a 37% chance to summon a 9 HD enemy. Quite a limiting factor, I think.

    Mmm, not sure, there's not much existing to balance it against. I'd be prone to err on the side of caution and make it just one round, but that's just my gut instinct.
    Perhaps 2 rounds would be a good compromise: 1 round to get him the hell (abyss?) out of the way, 1 round to lay the smack on enemies.

    Again, maneuvers and spell effects don't balance out exactly–and giving a melee type the ability to paralyze lets them coup de grace oh so very easily, more so if it's long-lasting.
    They don't balance out exactly, yes, but the caster in the party--who has focused on increasing his DCs more, I'm sure--could just as easily do the same for him; the fact that he can do it himself simply saves the caster an action to hold or save-or-die something else, where otherwise the caster would hold the crusader's target and the crusader would smack the other guy around. I think it works out fairly evenly.

    I still think it's a bit much...not many abilities let you pick and choose from energy immunities, as well as the incredibly useful immunity to mind-affecting abilities, with unlimited duration. An ability granting any one of those would be very powerful for that level; letting them choose from multiple abilities or using more than one just approaches overpoweredness.
    Monsters have had energy immunities and constant true seeing for a few levels now, and casters can grab spell-storage items of mind blank to make them constantly immune or at least for a few hours at a time. The crusader could heal 2 HP with every hit starting at level 1, so 5 per round now isn't all that major. A major weakness of melee types is their Will saves and by extension their vulnerability to illusions, and crusaders don't get Moment of Perfect Mind; they don't have many ways to avoid massively damaging effects like Evasion or energy resistances, and crusaders don't get Action Before Thought. I think giving them the ability to protect themselves at the cost of another, potentially more useful stance, is fair.

    As long as it was just a standard melee attack, very much so. What I was afraid of was it letting you spam 9th level maneuvers, two at a time, for a big chunk of turns. It'd be the kind of maneuver any martial adept would take with Martial Lore or multiclassing.
    It's fixed now, so that should take care of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos
    Oh yes, I know. I just felt like being mean (in the spirit of the Abyss).

    Anyways, I totally dig the changes. Now, I'll excuse myself before I decide to start channeling Fraz Urb'luu.
    I hope so, arguskos, for your sake. Fraz-Urb'luu is not as forgiving as I am.
    Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost; 2009-01-15 at 01:28 AM.
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    With Infinite Chaos, by "If the result is tails, roll 1d6 times on the following table:", you mean to say you have to roll 1d6, and the result is the amount of times you need to roll a d20, correct?

    A suggestion for that one is that on a roll of 19 you get the effect you have their (namely you get to choose one), but that on a 20 you get to choose two. Would that make it too much, you think?

    Overall, the discipline is intruiging. I'm a big fan of the Tome of Battle, so I'm certainly going to look and see your Baatorian discipline. ;)

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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Dagon's Doomsong
    What level do you think it would fit in? I could always shuffle it around and weaken another maneuver to compensate, but it's a neat effect like you said, and I want to keep it somehow.
    I'd put it at 3rd, and add melee blocking.
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    With Infinite Chaos, by "If the result is tails, roll 1d6 times on the following table:", you mean to say you have to roll 1d6, and the result is the amount of times you need to roll a d20, correct?
    Right.

    A suggestion for that one is that on a roll of 19 you get the effect you have their (namely you get to choose one), but that on a 20 you get to choose two. Would that make it too much, you think?
    Probably too much. That's between 2 and 12+ effects, and that's enough to get all of them.

    Overall, the discipline is intruiging.
    Well, devils are the intriguing ones, so I'd hoped this one would be more of a slaughtering discipline....

    I'm a big fan of the Tome of Battle, so I'm certainly going to look and see your Baatorian discipline. ;)
    Excellent. Any comments there are appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One
    I'd put it at 3rd, and add melee blocking.
    Will do.
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    Default Re: ToB Discipline--Infinite Torment

    Okay, I made all the updates I said I would and changed Armanite Charge to Nabassu's Hunger. Whaddya think?
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
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    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
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