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    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default [Spell] True Permanency

    True Permanency
    Evocation
    Level: Sorceror/Wizard 8
    Components: V, S, XP
    Casting Time: 10 minutes
    Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/level)
    Target: One spell
    Duration: Permanent
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    This spell makes any spell of less than seventh level currently in effect with a duration longer than "instantaneous" into a permanent spell. The spell is not immune to dispelling and can be dispelled or discharged as normal.

    XP Cost: Spell level of the targeted spell * spell level of the targeted spell * caster level of the targeted spell * 100. Spells with a spell level of 0 are treated as 1.

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    Tormsskull's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Does 3.x have a limit to the number of permanent spells a person can have on them at one time?

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    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    No. As long as you're willing to pay the XP cost, go right ahead. Same thing here.

    Of course, a 9th level spell (at min caster level: 17) costs 9 * 9 * 17 * 100 = 137,700 xp according to this.

    In fact, a handy table:

    SL1, CL1
    1*1*1*100 = 100 xp

    SL2, CL3
    2*2*3*100 = 1200 xp

    SL3, CL5
    3*3*5*100 = 4500 xp

    SL4, CL7
    4*4*7*100 = 11,200 xp

    SL5, CL9
    5*5*9*100 = 22,500 xp

    SL6, CL11
    6*6*11*100 = 39,600 xp

    SL7, CL13
    7*7*13*100 = 63,700 xp

    SL8, CL15
    8*8*15*100 = 96,000 xp

    SL9, CL17
    9*9*17*100 = 137,700 xp

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    So... Permanent Shapechange = God, essentially. Turn into anything on a whim, anytime. Its like being a druid, but with better spells and the ability to cast spells without a feat. This is probably too broken for a 6th level spell, but Im too tired to think why.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Umm, 137,700xp for that permanent shapechange there, and it can be dispelled. Not broken. Epic. Very Epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
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    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Cant you just shapechange into sometihng immune to magic to circumvent that dispell? it might require a prestige class or feat to assume that ability, or you could just, you know, counter the dispell magic. And there are already ways (that i cant rememeber) to get more XP for payment. Soul sacrifices, thought bottles, whatever. What about a True Permanenced Antimagic Field? Can you say "Permenantly immune to magic becasue the Dispell magic cant get to your spells?"

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    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152
    Cant you just shapechange into sometihng immune to magic to circumvent that dispell? it might require a prestige class or feat to assume that ability, or you could just, you know, counter the dispell magic. And there are already ways (that i cant rememeber) to get more XP for payment. Soul sacrifices, thought bottles, whatever. What about a True Permanenced Antimagic Field? Can you say "Permenantly immune to magic becasue the Dispell magic cant get to your spells?"
    A few points: The Permanency itself could be dispelled, so polymorphing into something into a creature immune to magic wouldn't work. Soul sacrifices, thought bottles, and etc are on a case by case basis. And an antimagic field couldn't be permanencied since the antimagic field would suppress the True Permanency spell.

    As for:
    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152
    So... Permanent Shapechange = God, essentially. Turn into anything on a whim, anytime. Its like being a druid, but with better spells and the ability to cast spells without a feat.
    Except you make permanent the effects of one polymorph spell. So you'd be spending 4*4*7*100=11,200 xp (enough to take you to level 5 or use two wishes) to turn yourself into one creature, permanently. Or until someone dispels the polymorph or the true permanency.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Yeah, shapechange is broken anyway :P

    Any suggestions on what you could use this spell for?
    There aren't many spells that the xp cost is worth, but i can't be certain.
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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain van der Decken
    Any suggestions on what you could use this spell for?
    There aren't many spells that the xp cost is worth, but i can't be certain.
    Cloud of Knives, Zone of Truth, Water Walk, and Unseen Servant immediately come to mind.

    Of course, those're all low-level spells. If you want to pony up the 137k xp, a permanent Black Blade of Disaster'd be nice.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    To me as a relatively inexperienced player, it seems a bit cheap to get permanent mage armor, shield, protection from evil etc for 100 XP each. Similarly, the 2nd level buffing spells like Bull's Strength would be cheap for 600 XP. Finally, Greater Invisibility at 1500 XP sounds like an awesome deal for a rogue, unless he intended to keep having a life as a humanoid. ;)

    The problem is probably that the caster must pay the XP price rather than the recipient, so it's hard (or expensive) to get wizards to cast it on you. Paying the price for a casting of TP and 3000 gp for the XP ends up more expensive than an item that gives +4 to Strength, right?

    What do you mean with "any spell currently in effect"? In the world? Cast by the TP-caster? In effect on the TP-caster?
    Catharsis

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis
    To me as a relatively inexperienced player, it seems a bit cheap to get permanent mage armor, shield, protection from evil etc for 100 XP each. Similarly, the 2nd level buffing spells like Bull's Strength would be cheap for 600 XP. Finally, Greater Invisibility at 1500 XP sounds like an awesome deal for a rogue, unless he intended to keep having a life as a humanoid. *;)
    Wait, can you change your caster level? because it would be higher than 1 to get a lvl 6 spell..
    Of course, I do keep forgetting rules :P
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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Any spell currently in effect. Same as Permanency: you can cast it on someone else's spell, as long as it's currently functional.

    I can't think of a better way to calculate an XP cost, though. Perhaps ((SL * CL) + 2) * 100? (SL * CL * HD * 100)? (SL * SL * CL * CL * 100)? (SL+2 * CL+2 * 100)?

    Also, a True Permanencied Greater Invisibility would cost 4 * 4 * 7 * 100 = 11,200 xp

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Regarding the AM field supressing the True Permancy:
    As soon as the dields duratin expires, the True Permancy is un-supressed, bringing the field into effect, and so on infinitly.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    No, because the AMF's duration has expired and it is now gone. It's no longer a valid target for the True Permanency, which then fizzles.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    i still think a sixth level spell should not be capable of this. 11 level wizards creating permabuffs? Allowing for more spell slots with which to use better spells? You create a combat machine. Permanent Creations. Permanent Regenerations. Permanent Timestops. Think of the Permanent Timestops. Noone can dispell it but you. You have literally infinite prep time. Every wizards dream. (Okay, that last one has little to do with spell level, but still. Permanent Timestop=King of All Cosmos without using Epic Spells)

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis
    No. As long as you're willing to pay the XP cost, go right ahead. Same thing here.
    With this knowledge I'd say this is a world-altering spell that would significantly impact a campaign. I can easily see legions of guards all with permanent spells upon them (detect magic, detect invisibility, etc). Yeah, you have to have a spellcaster willing to pay the price, but for the low level spells this is going to be cheap.

    I don't have my books in front of me, but some spells have a "until used or x number of rounds, whichever comes sooner" type duration, would you be able to effect those with TP? If so, that would then change the duration to "untill used" right?

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    For a useful amount of troops, thats a massive xp cost there. You would have to pay that caster a lotta money.
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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Changed spell level to 8th, made it unable to target spells of higher than 7th level, added in clause about spell being able to be discharged as normal.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Balanced now I think.
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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    You probably didn't intend it but....

    All y'all seen the shadow gnome build that can duplicate 8th (and, depending on build, 9th) level spells at 100%+ reality?

    Well, he can do Evocations....

    And when duplicating the effects, there's no XP cost.....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    Got a link? And anyway, if it's just a specific build can break it, doesn't really matter.
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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    I think you should increase XP cost for spells of smaller durations and decrease the XP cost for longer durations, since durations are often mitigating factors in the levelling of a spell. When you remove the duration, you are also essentially removing a mitigating factor from a spell which's level would otherwise be higher.

    Otherwise, it seems pretty cool.
    "There is no quote"

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    Default Re: [Spell] True Permanency

    The important component is the ShadowCraft Mage PrC from Races of Stone - turns any Illusion(Figment) spell the mechanics of a Shadow Evocation/Conjouration spell with some caveats - combine that, Silent Image, and Heighten Spell, and for a 9th level spell slot, on the material plane, you get an 80% real 8th level or lower evocation or conjouration Sor/Wiz spell.

    There's ways to twink it out more; feats and PrC abilities that increase the reality of all your [Shadow] spells, casting it from the plane of Shadow, a nifty feat that gives you a free level of Heighten whenever you're standing on earth or stone, Easy Metamagic to reduce the cost when you Heighten a spell, et cetera. There's a particular build that can potentially give you a 140% real Miracle for a spontaneous conversion of an 8th level spell slot..... as a Wizard.

    But for breaking this particular spell, all you need is a 9th level spell slot and a few levels from a particular PrC (you can just keep casting until your 80% chance succeeds on you.... or voluntarily fail your own Will save for the save you don't need to make in the first place and have it work on the first try... but that tends to give DM's headaches).

    Edit: As for the link....

    Edit 2: And to unbreak it for a build with that PrC, it would simply be a matter of changing the school to Universal - where the existing Permanency currenly resides.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2006-10-28 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Requested Link
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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