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Thread: [Spell] True Permanency
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2006-10-17, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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[Spell] True Permanency
True Permanency
Evocation
Level: Sorceror/Wizard 8
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/level)
Target: One spell
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell makes any spell of less than seventh level currently in effect with a duration longer than "instantaneous" into a permanent spell. The spell is not immune to dispelling and can be dispelled or discharged as normal.
XP Cost: Spell level of the targeted spell * spell level of the targeted spell * caster level of the targeted spell * 100. Spells with a spell level of 0 are treated as 1.Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2006-10-17, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Does 3.x have a limit to the number of permanent spells a person can have on them at one time?
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2006-10-17, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
No. As long as you're willing to pay the XP cost, go right ahead. Same thing here.
Of course, a 9th level spell (at min caster level: 17) costs 9 * 9 * 17 * 100 = 137,700 xp according to this.
In fact, a handy table:
SL1, CL1
1*1*1*100 = 100 xp
SL2, CL3
2*2*3*100 = 1200 xp
SL3, CL5
3*3*5*100 = 4500 xp
SL4, CL7
4*4*7*100 = 11,200 xp
SL5, CL9
5*5*9*100 = 22,500 xp
SL6, CL11
6*6*11*100 = 39,600 xp
SL7, CL13
7*7*13*100 = 63,700 xp
SL8, CL15
8*8*15*100 = 96,000 xp
SL9, CL17
9*9*17*100 = 137,700 xpWiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2006-10-17, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
So... Permanent Shapechange = God, essentially. Turn into anything on a whim, anytime. Its like being a druid, but with better spells and the ability to cast spells without a feat. This is probably too broken for a 6th level spell, but Im too tired to think why.
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2006-10-17, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Umm, 137,700xp for that permanent shapechange there, and it can be dispelled. Not broken. Epic. Very Epic.
Fizban's Tweaks and Brew: Google Drive (PDF), Thread
A collection of over 200 pages of individually small bans, tweaks, brews, and rule changes, usable piecemeal or nearly altogether, and even some convenient lists. Everything I've done that I'd call done enough to use in one place (plus a number of things I'm working on that aren't quite done, of course).
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2006-10-17, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Cant you just shapechange into sometihng immune to magic to circumvent that dispell? it might require a prestige class or feat to assume that ability, or you could just, you know, counter the dispell magic. And there are already ways (that i cant rememeber) to get more XP for payment. Soul sacrifices, thought bottles, whatever. What about a True Permanenced Antimagic Field? Can you say "Permenantly immune to magic becasue the Dispell magic cant get to your spells?"
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2006-10-17, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Originally Posted by Collin152
As for:
Originally Posted by Collin152Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2006-10-17, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Yeah, shapechange is broken anyway :P
Any suggestions on what you could use this spell for?
There aren't many spells that the xp cost is worth, but i can't be certain.I WILL round this Cape, even if I have to keep sailing until doomsday!
Engaged in A Spat with Jibar.
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2006-10-17, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Originally Posted by Captain van der Decken
Of course, those're all low-level spells. If you want to pony up the 137k xp, a permanent Black Blade of Disaster'd be nice.Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2006-10-17, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
To me as a relatively inexperienced player, it seems a bit cheap to get permanent mage armor, shield, protection from evil etc for 100 XP each. Similarly, the 2nd level buffing spells like Bull's Strength would be cheap for 600 XP. Finally, Greater Invisibility at 1500 XP sounds like an awesome deal for a rogue, unless he intended to keep having a life as a humanoid. ;)
The problem is probably that the caster must pay the XP price rather than the recipient, so it's hard (or expensive) to get wizards to cast it on you. Paying the price for a casting of TP and 3000 gp for the XP ends up more expensive than an item that gives +4 to Strength, right?
What do you mean with "any spell currently in effect"? In the world? Cast by the TP-caster? In effect on the TP-caster?Catharsis
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2006-10-17, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Originally Posted by Catharsis
Of course, I do keep forgetting rules :P
I WILL round this Cape, even if I have to keep sailing until doomsday!
Engaged in A Spat with Jibar.
Devil Lord-to-be and proud member of the Baatezu Lovers club!SpoilerSpoilerDecken by CeikaSpoiler
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2006-10-17, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Any spell currently in effect. Same as Permanency: you can cast it on someone else's spell, as long as it's currently functional.
I can't think of a better way to calculate an XP cost, though. Perhaps ((SL * CL) + 2) * 100? (SL * CL * HD * 100)? (SL * SL * CL * CL * 100)? (SL+2 * CL+2 * 100)?
Also, a True Permanencied Greater Invisibility would cost 4 * 4 * 7 * 100 = 11,200 xpWiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2006-10-17, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Regarding the AM field supressing the True Permancy:
As soon as the dields duratin expires, the True Permancy is un-supressed, bringing the field into effect, and so on infinitly.
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2006-10-17, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
No, because the AMF's duration has expired and it is now gone. It's no longer a valid target for the True Permanency, which then fizzles.
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2006-10-17, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
i still think a sixth level spell should not be capable of this. 11 level wizards creating permabuffs? Allowing for more spell slots with which to use better spells? You create a combat machine. Permanent Creations. Permanent Regenerations. Permanent Timestops. Think of the Permanent Timestops. Noone can dispell it but you. You have literally infinite prep time. Every wizards dream. (Okay, that last one has little to do with spell level, but still. Permanent Timestop=King of All Cosmos without using Epic Spells)
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2006-10-17, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Originally Posted by Fax Celestis
I don't have my books in front of me, but some spells have a "until used or x number of rounds, whichever comes sooner" type duration, would you be able to effect those with TP? If so, that would then change the duration to "untill used" right?
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2006-10-17, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
For a useful amount of troops, thats a massive xp cost there. You would have to pay that caster a lotta money.
I WILL round this Cape, even if I have to keep sailing until doomsday!
Engaged in A Spat with Jibar.
Devil Lord-to-be and proud member of the Baatezu Lovers club!SpoilerSpoilerDecken by CeikaSpoiler
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2006-10-18, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Changed spell level to 8th, made it unable to target spells of higher than 7th level, added in clause about spell being able to be discharged as normal.
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2006-10-18, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Balanced now I think.
I WILL round this Cape, even if I have to keep sailing until doomsday!
Engaged in A Spat with Jibar.
Devil Lord-to-be and proud member of the Baatezu Lovers club!SpoilerSpoilerDecken by CeikaSpoiler
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2006-10-27, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
You probably didn't intend it but....
All y'all seen the shadow gnome build that can duplicate 8th (and, depending on build, 9th) level spells at 100%+ reality?
Well, he can do Evocations....
And when duplicating the effects, there's no XP cost.....Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2006-10-28, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
Got a link? And anyway, if it's just a specific build can break it, doesn't really matter.
I WILL round this Cape, even if I have to keep sailing until doomsday!
Engaged in A Spat with Jibar.
Devil Lord-to-be and proud member of the Baatezu Lovers club!SpoilerSpoilerDecken by CeikaSpoiler
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2006-10-28, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
I think you should increase XP cost for spells of smaller durations and decrease the XP cost for longer durations, since durations are often mitigating factors in the levelling of a spell. When you remove the duration, you are also essentially removing a mitigating factor from a spell which's level would otherwise be higher.
Otherwise, it seems pretty cool."There is no quote"
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2006-10-28, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Spell] True Permanency
The important component is the ShadowCraft Mage PrC from Races of Stone - turns any Illusion(Figment) spell the mechanics of a Shadow Evocation/Conjouration spell with some caveats - combine that, Silent Image, and Heighten Spell, and for a 9th level spell slot, on the material plane, you get an 80% real 8th level or lower evocation or conjouration Sor/Wiz spell.
There's ways to twink it out more; feats and PrC abilities that increase the reality of all your [Shadow] spells, casting it from the plane of Shadow, a nifty feat that gives you a free level of Heighten whenever you're standing on earth or stone, Easy Metamagic to reduce the cost when you Heighten a spell, et cetera. There's a particular build that can potentially give you a 140% real Miracle for a spontaneous conversion of an 8th level spell slot..... as a Wizard.
But for breaking this particular spell, all you need is a 9th level spell slot and a few levels from a particular PrC (you can just keep casting until your 80% chance succeeds on you.... or voluntarily fail your own Will save for the save you don't need to make in the first place and have it work on the first try... but that tends to give DM's headaches).
Edit: As for the link....
Edit 2: And to unbreak it for a build with that PrC, it would simply be a matter of changing the school to Universal - where the existing Permanency currenly resides.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2006-10-28 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Requested Link
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.