Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

[SteveMB]

My guess is that the coalition leaders weren't croaked, but had their leadership reduced by the shock scroll and by being covered in crap.

If Stanley's reason for wanting "the most handsome and dashing" of his surviving living Men was that those traits correlate with base Leadership (by Erfword mechanics), that would make sense. It's hard to be handsome or dashing when covered in crap.

[Caledonian]

That... that was a moment of perfect beauty.

Sirs, I am pleased to announce that you're going to the Special Hell.

[BarGamer]

And did anyone notice that the weapons used by the TCC troops look like those used by the Orcs in the LotR movie?

I'm SO glad you posted that first! I noticed it too, but didn't want to reveal myself as the rabid LOTR fan that I am.

The Tower of Efdup needs a giant glowing Eye. And some wide-eyed kid needs to angst about jewelry. Or even better, both get trampled upon, like in Sluggy Freelance. (I think.)

Spoiler

Show

WILD SPECULATION: Of course, you realize that whoever owns those soldiers will simply HAVE to defect to GW's side now, if only to maintain the illusion that GW are the "bad guys."

[Kaolix]

Absolutely hilarious. First time in quite a while something has made me literally laugh out loud. 4chan sound effect was wonderfully appropriate. Having been watching the activities of /b/ for the last couple of days now out of boredom, I don't think anything can describe it better than a thermo-poop-lear explosion.

[Vreejack]

The poo bomb is almost certainly all Sizemore's doing. The reason he never used it in combat earlier is that he had no way to fix the leadership in one spot while he made his escape. Units are probably very reluctant to stand by while an enemy caster is fleeing, especially while a bombs is about to explode. It was only with the shockamancy attack that Sizemore had a way to make them stand still for that.

[scotchmonger]

This is what proves Ansom's incompetence. If he warned his warlords about the dirtmancer and golems, why would they be separated from their retinue and unarmed?!? The importance of multipliers is common knowledge in Erfworld (c.f. Caesar and the bats), so it should be standard practice to protect your warlords well when they are susceptible to attack, yet the warlords were unarmed and none of the coalition's strongest units (Cloth golems, sourmanders, etc.) were nearby to guard them.

More a case of bad assumptions based on bad information I think. As Parson said, "you can't be strong everywhere". RCC is prepping a major offensive and shifted their strength accordingly -- Heavies to guard the siege stacks in order to give infantry the opportunity to swarm. They need to bring the max force to bear directly on the walls with immediate infantry follow-through.

Looking this over, I think the warlords were caught immediately (seconds) after Ansom took off to give his speech. Panels 1-4 are Ansom giving initial instructions, Panel 5 both warlords are watching this and talking, Panel 6&7 they're grabbed and played like cymbals with barely enough time to be surprised.

I disagree that the importance of multipliers is common knowledge -- Vinny is the only one to have mentioned it and I think they discovered it more as a side effect of being blessed with mass quantities of ultra weak troops.

Erfworld residents use the bonuses when they can but I think Parson's right -- they don't stack and stack except by accident. Strip 71 - needs to croak Jillian to elliminate her leadership bonus (9), Strip 72 - "Artifact Bonus piled on the Leader bonus", "That was not winnable". And yet in strip 113 - Jillian is clueless again -- She doesn't think it can be done until Vinny explains it -- even though she and Ansom were part of the attack where the bonuses were all in their favor. What Parson saw that everyone else missed is that by stacking bonuses and concentrating them on your strongest units instead of beefing up the weak, you can make a mega stack (or two) with a limited attack exposure -- Erfworld's first special forces.

Don't forget that he is also compromising -- with all the heavy hitters in only a couple of stacks, the rest of his army is so much paper-mache if there were any way for him to get flanked. It's only going to work this well because he's against the wall and only has one place left to defend.

Long first post. I hope I've explained myself well.

[BarGamer]

@scotch: tl;dr

Just kidding, you did just fine. Good point on the compare and contrast to Transylvania Style combat. I did indeed miss that Parson's putting his STRONGEST in the stack, rather than tons of Gobwins or whatever.

As long as Ansom doesn't get clever and pull some kind of Donut of Doom response, Parson's well on his way to ultimate victory. Assuming Stanley doesn't show up at the most inconvenient time possible...

[shadowdemon_lord]

Good post Scotchmonger, just a couple nitpicks. The first is that the Sizemore/golem combo is not super effective because he's stacking bonuses, the only bonus on the golems is Sizemores, although I will grant it's a large one. The effectiveness of the Sizemore/golem combo is not that they are a mega stack (anymore so then a group of heavies with a decent warlord at their head would be), but that they can strike from an area no one else can, and retreat in the same fashion. This ability to truly cherrypick targets is virtually unique to a side without total air superiority, and probably is unique in that it is just as hard for air units to fight them as it is ground units.

Also, he may have the heavy hitters in a single stack, but the rest of his units are not weak, and barring a way for the enemy to cherry pick the leadership (which I don't think flanking would do, as he could just go to the middle) he has a very sound strategy.

[teratorn]

About not using casters in war. GK once held eleven cities and they had only five casters, at least two of them captured to other sodes. And as we know captured units have low loyalty. My guess is that casters are very rare. Particularly loyal ones. Besides the kings are at home and casters are probably important to protect the city after sending so many troops to fight far from it.

And sizemore's attack. If it were not for shockamancy he'd have been engaged, every unit was going after him. Given the value of casters this kind of attack (risking a caster to get a warlord) may look strange to Erfworlders.


I wonder how RCC's will react when Jillian tells them that the guys who are responsible for Stanley being alive and Parson still holding the city (Wanda and Jack) were once Faq units.

For Parson it would be better if Sizemore took the warlords alive. Duke Nozzle is probably easy to convince into asking his king to leave the coalition.

[HandofShadows]

I wonder how RCC's will react when Jillian tells them that the guys who are responsible for Stanley being alive and Parson still holding the city (Wanda and Jack) were once Faq units.

Probably will not matter to them one bit. Many still don't know about Faq (and some who have been told don't seem to belive it 100%) and those that do would assume there is a powerfull loyalty spell on them.

They would just be ticked that GK didn't fall, a lot of troops where lost and huge amount of money wasted. A huge of blame is likely going to head Ansom's way for this.

[Kaed]

Notice the obsession about taking out the casters wherever they appear. Even the lowliest of low casters seem to be powerful beyond belief...

Of course they are. Think about what we know so far - Warlords give bonuses to other units by being around, and they can direct them. That's about it, in addition to fighting.

I wonder if anyone remembers that casters, too, can do that? I think they are basically UPGRADED warlords that only give bonuses to creatures related to their art, and can cast powerful magic. As a balancing point, they all seem to have very little health, ala Sizemore and Wanda almost dying within the span of less than three turns.

Haven't you noticed how few casters there are even in this massive battle? We've got (well had. Misty croaked) a caster from each Axis of Eyemancy, A dirtamancer, and a croakamancer (all of which I might are on Gobwin Knobs side). That's 4 casters in the whole of this huge battle that we know about.

You people seem to think that the healers in this battle are all Healomancers. I don't think they are. I've noticed that when people address a caster by rank it's ways "(blank)mancer". However, Ansom refers to them all has simply 'healers'. No one ever calls Wanda a croaker or Sizemore 'the dirter'. Futhermore, from earlier comics we know that the Lofty Elves and Altruistic Elves are the ones healing (and I'd assume the ones in nurse outfits are the latter).

We know already that there is such a thing as 'natural Thinkamancy'. Why not natural magic in other units? Perhaps those two races simply are natural at healing. But seeing as there are so many of them and they all look alike (casters seem to be distinct in this world) I would also assume that they do not come close to the level of a REAL Healomancer.

Imagine something like the opposite of Wanda in a battle, bringing back whole armies from the brink of death!

[glenstorm74]

Panel 7
The golem smashes Duke Nozzel and the other Warlord together.

Panel 8
You can see the same golem that grabbed the warlords on the left. He is fighting something, but we can't see what. His right hand is empty which suggests that one of the warlords got away or has been finished off.

Panel 9
We can still see the golem that grabbed the warlords on the left. He is standing with his arms folded as one shockamancy blast streaks past him. This suggests that the golem has already taken care of one of the warlords and that at least one was still alive for the poop bomb.

I do not think any of the warlords was captured.

[Ganurath]

Panel 8
You can see the same golem that grabbed the warlords on the left. He is fighting something, but we can't see what. His right hand is empty which suggests that one of the warlords got away or has been finished off.

That's not the same golem. In 7 and 9, Sizemore is facing away from the camera, so that if the direct he's facing is north than we're viewing from above and slightly south. In panel 8, we're viewing from north at groun level, so the golem you're referring is on the opposite side of the pit from the warlord buster.

That being said, there was only one blast seen going toward Warlord Grappler, so your analysis seems to stand regardless.

[glenstorm74]

Towards the beginning of the series, Ansom states that the RCC has 4 times the forces needed to take out the GK. This is before he retains Charlie's services.

Now, Ansom is trying to storm the garrison with 50% of his original forces. (I still don't count Charlie in this as the Archons are unable to contriubte this turn.) This means he only has 2 times the forces needed to take GK. Once you subtract the warlord bonus (chief warlord bonus?) that number drops even further.

If those two were chief warlords, then we could look at half of the coallition's forces becoming half as effective. Thus, the RCC would only have 1.5 times the forces needed to take the garrison.

This is suddenly very winnable for Parson. I can't wait to see he, Wanda, and the zombies doing a Thriller dance fight.

[glenstorm74]

That's not the same golem. In 7 and 9, Sizemore is facing away from the camera, so that if the direct he's facing is north than we're viewing from above and slightly south. In panel 8, we're viewing from north at groun level, so the golem you're referring is on the opposite side of the pit from the warlord buster.

Either that, or Sizemore spun around.

Actually, it is the same golem. You see, there aren't that many golems.

Panel 7
From right to left:
Crap golem with claws
Metal golem
Crap golem that looks like a blob
Metal golem grappler

Panel 8
From right to left:
Same crap golem that looks like a blob
Metal golem

Panel 9
From right to left:
Crap golem with claws
Metal golem
Crap golem that looks like a blob
Metal golem grappler

[teratorn]

Panel 7
The golem smashes Duke Nozzel and the other Warlord together.

Panel 8
You can see the same golem that grabbed the warlords on the left. He is fighting something, but we can't see what. His right hand is empty which suggests that one of the warlords got away or has been finished off.

Panel 9
We can still see the golem that grabbed the warlords on the left. He is standing with his arms folded as one shockamancy blast streaks past him. This suggests that the golem has already taken care of one of the warlords and that at least one was still alive for the poop bomb.

Or that he just dropped them inside the hole. There are no corpses there.

[glenstorm74]

Or that he just dropped them inside the hole. There are no corpses there.

While that is possible, it is highly improbable without comic evidence. The warlords, or their bodies, are always just outside of our view. However, dropping them in the hole without showing us would just be poor storytelling.

[Trixie]

The Wiener-Rams really saved my day. *is still snickering madly*

Um, why? I don't get it

[teratorn]

However, dropping them in the hole without showing us would just be poor storytelling.

If you say so. It's incredible the large number of storytelling experts we get in this forum. It's extremely rude to answer to someone's point with something like that.

[SteveMB]

While that is possible, it is highly improbable without comic evidence. The warlords, or their bodies, are always just outside of our view. However, dropping them in the hole without showing us would just be poor storytelling.

Presumably the outcome will show up in the next page or so. It's one of those things where the pacing stumbles a bit when you read pages a few days apart, but works fine when it's all done and you can read pages a few seconds apart.

And a side thought: Now I'm picturing a spell that might be cast by a gestalt including a Shockamancer and a Foolamancer....

[ShinyBrowncoat]

Of course Ansom could have told them about Sizemore, but he didn't.

Hence Ansom's incompetent. QED.

Also, without the stunning powers of shockmancy Sizemores attack wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

Even if such an attack was deemed ineffective, 1) there's no reason to not give your side the best chance of repelling the attack with minimal casualties, and 2) you can never be 100% certain what forces the enemy can bring to bear -- Ansom himself admitted they lacked good intel.

It does not take strategic genius to protect your leadership just as you would protect your seige, it only takes basic military competence. And the lack of that basic competence undermines the dramatic tension in the story by turning the antagonist into a joke instead of a deadly threat.

[Dacia Brabant]

Heh, I should've seen this coming, Shockamancy is a form of Naughtymancy afterall and there's nothing more shocking than the horrors Sizemore chants off, plus the crap bomb that is 4chan.

One question though: are we sure that all of that was enough to croak the two warlords?

[Poit-Narf]

If they're in the same hex as the city (I believe they are, even if they're not in the city per se... looking at the previous comics, I'm a bit confused as to the confines of the city itself now), than it's a legal move; he's just taking advantage of creating two short moments of three-dimensional ground-based warfare in order to actively, and effectively, defend.

At any rate, it might be argued that Parson's taking advantage of yet another mechanic of the universe. Or not.

I assume it's allowed because Ansom is attacking. Parson's plan relied on Ansom attacking this turn. Since Ansom is attacking, Parson is able to counterattack. And what a counterattack it was...

[Horatio@Bridge]

I don't really think that Ansom's that bad of a warlord. I just think that he doesn't think well on his feet. Consider the Donut of Doom scenario--when he actually had a bit of time to sit down and consider his situation, he came up with a clever, outside-the-box solution to his predicament.

The current situation, however, doesn't give him much time to think out a very good countermeasure. Or rather, he's not giving himself much time to think, since he's convinced he has to act now or Parson's going to clever him to death by the next round. He only saw Sizemore's maneuver once before this, and he immediately charged forward to attack the next position. He didn't really have time to pause and think "hmm, I wonder what the ramifications are of an enemy that has as much freedom of movement on the battlefield as that Dirtamancer just demonstrated?" It's easy for an arm-chair general to come up with the perfect strategy while sitting at home taking hours to ponder every stroke and counter-stroke. It's much more difficult to make solid decisions on the field, much less communicate them and execute them.

It's creating that sense of urgency in his opponent that is Parson's true brilliance in all of this. He's used his forces effectively to push his opponent and keep him off balance, to force Ansom to make decisions without considering their full impact. That gives Parson all sorts of leeway in his maneuvering.

Now, having said all that, sure, there's a gap in Parson's purported genius and his actions (though it's certainly not as large as has been implied by some here). That's an inherent flaw in the medium. Half of Sherlocke's "brilliant deductions" were only brilliant because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had the control over his world to make them correct. Otherwise, they're just interesting theories, but only one of a million possible explanations. The job of an author is not to be clever, but to make you believe they're clever. The latter can be accomplished with a variety of literary tricks and illusions which do not, in any way, detract from the entertainment value of the story. And certainly, the ability to write well in order to construct those illusions is no less praiseworthy than strategic ability itself!

[keeganknorr]

I think if you look to the top left of the crossed arm grapplers golem in panel 9 you can see a foot of one of the warlords, also you can see the crap golem ready to take the finger. The weird haze over panel over panel 10 implies that the explosion was part of the spell. Perhaps because it was a crap golem the bonuses stacked. It could have just been a corpse explosion spell

[glenstorm74]

If you say so. It's incredible the large number of storytelling experts we get in this forum. It's extremely rude to answer to someone's point with something like that.

Haha! I offer evidence and your rebuttal is to call me rude.

Consider Comic 138 panel 5. Parson's order is, "But at the same time we need to sap the enemy by reducing their multipliers. That's going to be you and the golems, Sizemore. You'll take the Shockamancy spells. Find a leadership stack, burrow up, shock 'em, crap 'em, escape." Thus, Sizemore is given order kill, not capture.

Or consider that we have a constant view of the golem who is grappling the warlords as well as the hole. It would be easy to add a falling warlord in those panels if there indeed was a capture scenario.

Finally, zoom in on panel 9 and you will see the boot of someone being blown back from the grappeling golem. It's hard to say, but it looks like the boot of our unknown, black girl warlord. It would make sense if it was her given that she was the warlord grappled by the golem's left hand.

Captured warlords are unlikely.

[teratorn]

Haha! I offer evidence and your rebuttal is to call me rude.

You offer absence of evidence, that's ok, I'm not rebutting your evidence, just the need for the "that's bad storytelling." It's condescending and unnecessary.

[Ronald_saveloy]

I remember, this discussion was brought up much earlier. But the comic has a tendency to set its characters into truely tragic situations:

Take Sizemore. He's a hippie! That was shown in the opening pages. And now, he effectively uses WMDs on the attaking army. I guess, he'll never get happy in his life again.

[fendrin]

The Wiener-Rams really saved my day. *is still snickering madly*

Um, why? I don't get it

I liked the 'rammers because if the multi-layering of wordplay.
Weiner-rammer is a play on Weimaraner, which is a breed of dog.
It is also a reference to their shape, which is reminiscent of a wiener, aka hot dog, bringing us full circle back to the dog reference.

Something tells me The Old Hack is thinking of something else, though.

[The Minx]

While that is possible, it is highly improbable without comic evidence. The warlords, or their bodies, are always just outside of our view. However, dropping them in the hole without showing us would just be poor storytelling.

That would be a premature assessment. We are only seeing one page per update in a comic which would normally be read in quick succession. It's entirely possible that they were captured and the camera simply hasn't cut to them yet.

In fact since, we know the camera hasn't cut to them yet, there is no reason to assume one fate for the warlords rather than another. I guess we'll just have to wait for the next update to tell what happened there.