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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Except that only is said about Wanda's bonus, not warlord bonuses(Personally, I don't buy that a croakamancer needs to be the commander-in-charge to grant the bonus, but surprisingly, that is tangential). We've seen Parson and Webinar both stack multiple warlords in one stack. For instance, assuming Wanda's bonus only applies if she leads, one stack possibility is:

    Leader: Wanda
    Parson
    Archduke Ferdinand
    Ensign Toast
    + X uncroaked

    The stack gets all 3 warlord bonuses, plus Wanda's. Throw the uncroaked infantry to the front to absorb damage and give it and just add/cycle as needed. Personally, I think this would be the wisest setup for dealing with anything and everything that isn't Ansom.
    I don't think so... for one thing, just because their was more than one warlord in a stack does not mean it was to take advantage of their bonus... for instance, Dora only has a leadership of 2 but because she is a warlord she is likely more powerful than regular units... Webinar may feel as though he'd rather have her working under him benefiting from his bonus than leading a stack on their own.

    And before we saw parson merge two warlords into the same stack, but again this may not have been for the sake of putting their bonus's together but so that they could attack together, so that the weaker warlord can recieve a bonus from the stronger one, and that if one warlord went down the stack will still receive a bonus because of the remaining warlord

    Really, considering it's called "leadership" bonus it seems that it's implied that the bonus only counts towards the troops that the commanders lead


    if it is the case that a stack only receives leadership bonus's from the leader and not other warlords, then the best formation is for Wanda and the uncroaked warlords to each be in their own stacks...

    Wanda will lead the uncroaked, and provide her huge bonus to all of them... in the mean time the uncroaked warlords will lead the non-uncroaked units and provide them with leadership bonus... as for Parson, he has rather low leadership for a chief warlord, possibly lower than the uncroaked warlords even, question is if he can provide that his full bonus without being the leader or not... if he can provide his full bonus to any stack he's inside then he can become part of wanda's stack and stack up their bonus while also providing a partial bonus's for all units within the same hex; which could be the whole capitol

    However, their are likely other bonus's that parson plans to take advantage of... He gave off a whole list of them so i doubt he's only thinking of leadership... He may have noticed that his sword provides a bonus or something, he may have found some magic buffs that wanda can employ, and he may be planning on using some dance fighting aswell

    Parson plans on making the most out of the force multipliers, so he's gonna go for multiple sources of bonus's
    Last edited by slayerx; 2009-01-26 at 08:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    Or his 6.000+ troops including lots of heavies and healers, his own impressive leadership bonus or his powerful ally up in the sky. He obviously can only survive by pure plotpowers.
    Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. We can go in circles, "Ansom has 6000 troops!" "Parson is God in a fat suit!" and never decide anything. Ultimately, the outcome is up to the authors. Ansom could have 6000 archons, and Parson could be naked with a toothpick, and if the Authors so choose, they can reveal that it is in fact the ArkenToothpick with the power to vaporize all Archons within a 3 hex radius.

    Since the pattern of the story has been give and take, I wonder at how eagerly everyone's jumping on "This is it! The last one!"

    Other thoughts unrelated to the above.

    There is in fact a limit on stack sizes. Unless, of course, there are max stacks, and then oops, I meant not-so-max stacks. Which, snarkiness aside, I'm not discounting the possibility of. Personally I think max stack size is related to the size of the unit. Bats are small. Gumps, not so much. Maybe I said this somewhere else or only just thought it, but IMO that's just another reason Archons are way too powerful: They're rather small.

    The original question is way up there, but I too am very curious what Wanda was hoping to do with those spells after Gobwin Knob was overrun and they were confiscated in the name of Jetstone. Maybe she's hoping she can convince the RCC that it's perfectly safe to leave a huge stockpile of spells in the hands of a former enemy who will certainly overlook her huge grudge against Ansom and whose new Loyalty score after turning is, in fact, perfectly respectable.
    Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2009-01-27 at 03:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenitor View Post

    And references aside, did Sizemore just waste two enemy coalition leaders? "And yet, this still feels like a mistake" indeed.
    I'm pretty sure that if getting double-body slammed didn't do it, being dazed at ground zero of that room clearing follow-up did.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    There is in fact a limit on stack sizes. Unless, of course, there are max stacks, and then oops, I meant not-so-max stacks.
    Or of course the 'max' refers to something other than number of units in the stack. Like say, stack bonus?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Nargrakhan View Post
    Ansom has to realize that. If he can wreck this much havoc with losing forces, then it doesn't take any stretch of imagination to guess the power he'd have with superior forces.
    Of course - but doing that, Ansom would have to acknowledge that Parson, a non-royal who has declared royalty obsolete is a superior warlord / leader / strategist.
    That will not come easy
    Last edited by hajo; 2009-01-27 at 10:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    The original question is way up there, but I too am very curious what Wanda was hoping to do with those spells after Gobwin Knob was overrun and they were confiscated in the name of Jetstone. Maybe she's hoping she can convince the RCC that it's perfectly safe to leave a huge stockpile of spells in the hands of a former enemy who will certainly overlook her huge grudge against Ansom and whose new Loyalty score after turning is, in fact, perfectly respectable.
    When someone is used to hitting nails with hammers, don't get too hard on them when they grab the hammer, even though the crowbar in their room would work better. Wanda's 'hammer' is croakamancy. I'm not surprised she didn't go for her 'crowbars' when trouble brewed. Especially considering that nobody on GK's side has even a small incling of how to fight a war, except Parson.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Oh dear. I found this too amusing. Perhaps I'm becoming cruel over time.

    I remember those shock sites. They used to be... disturbing. Nowadays we're all jaded - nobody bats an eye anymore at goatse or tubgirl, and 4chan is a shadow of its former self, but once upon a time, it's true, we were horrified. Even if now only the worst depravities of the hellish Russian chans can shock us, we have to acknowledge the classics of the genre.
    Speak for yourself. I only got a few seconds into viewing 2 girls 1 cup, and now I avoid even curiosity about these things. So far I've managed to avoid seeing most of the things used to cast the shockamancy spell, by looking things up before I go look. The problem with a mental image is that it's far too late to put your eyes out...
    Last edited by BillyJimBoBob; 2009-01-27 at 02:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
    Really, considering it's called "leadership" bonus it seems that it's implied that the bonus only counts towards the troops that the commanders lead
    If that's the case, it makes the revelation about force multipliers a lot less impressive. It gives a much smaller bonus to each stack, and numbers could very well win out, especially since I doubt Sizemore will eliminate all leadership. Additive can sometimes catch up to multiplicative, even if you need 20 1's to match 4 5's. And the RCC has a substantial numerical advantage.
    Last edited by gatitcz; 2009-01-27 at 02:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by gatitcz View Post
    And the RCC has a substantial numerical advantage.
    But how long will that last? For everyone croaked, it not is only a loss to the RCC, it is also a potential GAIN to GK. So while the RCC looses strength, GK wil gain strength. The question is if GK can reduce the RCC's forces fast enough to keep from being overwhelmed.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    But how long will that last? For everyone croaked, it not is only a loss to the RCC, it is also a potential GAIN to GK. So while the RCC looses strength, GK wil gain strength. The question is if GK can reduce the RCC's forces fast enough to keep from being overwhelmed.
    There's also the possibility that a few more setbacks on a campaign that was supposed to be a cakewalk will finally convince some of the coalition members that they've Sofa King had it with Ansom's leadership.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by gatitcz View Post
    If that's the case, it makes the revelation about force multipliers a lot less impressive. It gives a much smaller bonus to each stack, and numbers could very well win out, especially since I doubt Sizemore will eliminate all leadership. Additive can sometimes catch up to multiplicative, even if you need 20 1's to match 4 5's. And the RCC has a substantial numerical advantage.
    But if the warlord's were aloud to stack on eather's bonus's it would mena their is less point in moving in seperate stacks... i mean, if you have 10 warlords why would you want to each have their own stack instead of just putting them altogether, having the units benefit from ALL the bonus's at once along with the warlord's each benefiting from one another... Think about it, if Ceasr's bats are like heavies, but why stop there, they could stick all the warlord's in the same stack and make ALL their bats way stronger than heavies; and there side seems to understand using force multipliers

    An exploitable machanic is something that is subtle and can be overlooked; something as blatant as stacking warlord's themselves that it's so blatantly obvious that it's more like a broken mechanic... it kinda defeats the purpose of using separate stacks; the bonus one might get from having multiple units in a stack (that max's at 8) seems like it would be far less benefical than just stacking all your warlords


    This is why Parson listed off a number of different method's of gaining bonus's... he won't just exploit the leadership bonus he will likely exploit the rest of them. Stack artifact bonus's, special bonus's, spell buffs, and so forth on TOP of leadership Bonus's... together they can be quite fearsom since the enemy may not be able to use them... the RCC has the pliers but they may not come into play unless Ansom is actually in the stack; The RCC lacks casters so that means a possibility of no spell buffs; We also don't know of any specials so the RCC may have none of that aswell... Hell one thing that Shockamancy and Thinkamancy may be able to do is Debuff the enemies thus underminding what Bonus they are using... Parson will stack many differnt kinds of bonus on top of eachother while the RCC will end up keeping their bonus's spread out (quality vs quantity)
    Last edited by slayerx; 2009-01-27 at 03:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    The original question is way up there, but I too am very curious what Wanda was hoping to do with those spells after Gobwin Knob was overrun and they were confiscated in the name of Jetstone. Maybe she's hoping she can convince the RCC that it's perfectly safe to leave a huge stockpile of spells in the hands of a former enemy who will certainly overlook her huge grudge against Ansom and whose new Loyalty score after turning is, in fact, perfectly respectable.
    Parson told Sizemore that he was going to send the casters to the Magic Kingdom if the city fell. We can assume that he also told Maggie and Wanda, because to keep that part of the plan from them would be counterproductive and poor leadership. Wanda would have taken her scrolls with her, so they would not be falling into the hands of the enemy.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
    But if the warlord's were aloud to stack on eather's bonus's it would mena their is less point in moving in seperate stacks...
    There are non-numeric benefits to having separate stacks, for instance, covering more territory. If your enemy has all of his units in a single stack (and thus by definition a single hex), it is much easier to maneuver around that hex to get at strategic targets (like cities).

    Further, there may be numeric reasons to prefer smaller stacks in many situations. We know that there is a cap to the stack bonus. If the stack bonus is +1 per unit in the stack, but only applies to 8 units* (thus 8 units of the stack get +8, the rest get +0), then it is better to have two stacks of 8 with one of them getting a small leadership bonus (say, +4) than to have one stack of 16 getting the +4 bonus. The former arrangement would be 8 units with a net +8 and 8 at a net +12, while the single stack formation has 8 units at +12 and 8 units at +4.The 8 units at +12 balance out, leaving 8 units at +8 vs 8 units at +4.
    It would thus only be when the leadership bonus is greater than the stack bonus that having a stack of larger than 8 units would be numerically advantageous. If Webinar (as the #2 Jetstone warlord in the coalition forces) is an indicator, it is likely rare for a warlord to have a bonus large enough to make a large stack worthwhile.

    Parson seems to have hit upon the idea that if he can force his opponent to have to move through a single hex, he no longer needs many of the non-numerical advantages of multiple stacks (just a couple of smaller tactical stacks, such as Sizemore's Strike Force). Further, assuming that Wanda's bonus to uncreaked stacks with Parson's bonus (and any bonus that may be coming from the sword, though I think it is just augmenting Parson's bonus), The combined bonus may easily outweigh the lost stack bonus.

    *this is a conjecture, and whilst it is consistent with what we know of the Erf rules, it is not necessarily correct.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Further, there may be numeric reasons to prefer smaller stacks in many situations. We know that there is a cap to the stack bonus. If the stack bonus is +1 per unit in the stack, but only applies to 8 units* (thus 8 units of the stack get +8, the rest get +0), then it is better to have two stacks of 8 with one of them getting a small leadership bonus (say, +4) than to have one stack of 16 getting the +4 bonus. The former arrangement would be 8 units with a net +8 and 8 at a net +12, while the single stack formation has 8 units at +12 and 8 units at +4.The 8 units at +12 balance out, leaving 8 units at +8 vs 8 units at +4.
    It would thus only be when the leadership bonus is greater than the stack bonus that having a stack of larger than 8 units would be numerically advantageous. If Webinar (as the #2 Jetstone warlord in the coalition forces) is an indicator, it is likely rare for a warlord to have a bonus large enough to make a large stack worthwhile.
    Your argument is borken in that you are only considering ONE warlord... we are talking about multiple warlords...

    Let's say on warlords averag out to being about lv4 (some higher some lower)...

    now let's say you have 2 such warlords...
    If you keep the warlord's seperate they will give their respective stacks a +4 each, along with the max +8 stack bonus to give a total of +12... however if you could combine the warlord's, their combined they give a bonus of +8... add that to a max stack bonus and you got a total of +16... anyother unlead stacks would only get a +8 bonus from the stacking; but why give them only a +8 bonus when you can put them in the same stack as the 2 warlords and give ALL your units a +16...

    and if you have even more warlord's then it gets even crazier... you could be marching around with a stack where all the units get a +25 because of all the warlords they have... this is much more beneficial then having each of those warlord's in seperate stacks... and stacking warlord is incredibly easy as all sides have warlords; there' is no way that Ansom could overlook something like stacking his warlords on top of eachother, especially when he is forced into a bottle neck fight like he's about to be when he goes in through the front gate...

    Again, i bring up vinne and his bats... with all the bonus's, Ceaser's bats are already like heavies; but seeing as their side understands the element of stacking bonus's to make bats useful, why should they stop their... they got liek 10 warlords their, stack them on top of ceaser and their bonus's will FAR outweigh anything Stanely could muster up doing the same... and to keep stanely from escaping they only need to attack from two sides, so that means 5 walords in one stack, 5 in the other, and all aim for Stanely

    essenitally, it does once again make it a game where the one with the most numbers win... the more warlord's you have, the more you can stack up and completely overwhlem the other side.... where as i'm seeing this as more of a case of a game of variety... the more varity you have in your abilities, the more bonus you will have to exploit

    Parson seems to have hit upon the idea that if he can force his opponent to have to move through a single hex, he no longer needs many of the non-numerical advantages of multiple stacks (just a couple of smaller tactical stacks, such as Sizemore's Strike Force). Further, assuming that Wanda's bonus to uncreaked stacks with Parson's bonus (and any bonus that may be coming from the sword, though I think it is just augmenting Parson's bonus), The combined bonus may easily outweigh the lost stack bonus.

    *this is a conjecture, and whilst it is consistent with what we know of the Erf rules, it is not necessarily correct.
    This however also applies to Ansom, he too no longer needs the numerical advantage of multiple stacks in the way he is fighting... Ansom would not be stupid enough to overlook the benefits of stacking warlord's on top of eachother...

    However, Ansom is lacking in certain resources... a lack of mancers mean he can not stack up bonus's through buffs... also with some of their magic, Gobwinknob could be hitting the RCC with Debuffs, another thing that the RCC can not mimic with a lack of casters; especially ones they are not willing to risk on the frontlines. Possibly no specials to take advantage of either...

    Ansom would not be stupid enough to overlook warlord stacking... it's easy to do, appropriate for the given battle, and when within his means... on the other hand, he may be unable to emply other kinds of bonu's that Parson is more than able to and ready to exploit
    Last edited by slayerx; 2009-01-27 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJimBoBob View Post
    Speak for yourself. I only got a few seconds into viewing 2 girls 1 cup, and now I avoid even curiosity about these things. So far I've managed to avoid seeing most of the things used to cast the shockamancy spell, by looking things up before I go look. The problem with a mental image is that it's far too late to put your eyes out...
    What goes in the optic nerve stays in the frontal lobes . . . there are two solutions to this, though I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy . . .
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Sieggy View Post
    What goes in the optic nerve stays in the frontal lobes . . . there are two solutions to this, though I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy . . .
    How profound, Wizard!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    My guess is that warlord bonuses don't stack with each other. The whole stack gets the bonus of its leader, which is presumably the warlord with the highest bonus. But the bonus of the chief warlord, who's in command of all stacks, is applied to everyone.

    So let's say a common jetstone fighter has a bonus of 0, Dora has 2, Webinar has 6, and Ansom has 10. In that case, in a stack with both Dora and Webinar leading. then each soldier has (0+6+10) combat. Dora gets whatever her base is +6+10, while Webinar has his own base +6+10. If Webinar divides the stack, then the part led by Dora will change the 6 term to a 2.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    slayerx, I'm not saying you're wrong, I think you're right. I'm just saying Ansom still has an advantage. Which makes sense, we wouldn't want things to be too easy for our protagonist :)

    Quote Originally Posted by dr pepper View Post
    So let's say a common jetstone fighter has a bonus of 0, Dora has 2, Webinar has 6, and Ansom has 10. In that case, in a stack with both Dora and Webinar leading. then each soldier has (0+6+10) combat. Dora gets whatever her base is +6+10, while Webinar has his own base +6+10. If Webinar divides the stack, then the part led by Dora will change the 6 term to a 2.
    That seems like additive bonuses. When Parson said force multipliers, I thought it meant a 2 with a Warlord with 6 leadership would suddenly be like a 12 (Bogroll would normally have 2/2.5, but he's got Parson's 2 bonus). At the same time, I did get the impression that stack bonuses were +8 instead of X8. Hm...
    Last edited by gatitcz; 2009-01-27 at 09:22 PM.

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    confused Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    ...and Parson could be naked with a toothpick, and if the Authors so choose, they can reveal that it is in fact the ArkenToothpick with the power to vaporize all Archons within a 3 hex radius.
    Wow, I didn't think about that. Ok, so the ArkenToothpick is a WMD vs. Archons... what kind of stack bonus does it give in Parson's hands, given that he's attuned to it?

    And when he picks his teeth with it, what do the food particles turn into? Not pigeons, that would be too obvious....

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by gatitcz View Post
    That seems like additive bonuses. When Parson said force multipliers, I thought it meant a 2 with a Warlord with 6 leadership would suddenly be like a 12 (Bogroll would normally have 2/2.5, but he's got Parson's 2 bonus). At the same time, I did get the impression that stack bonuses were +8 instead of X8. Hm...
    Additive bonus are force multipliers.

    A unit with a base of 1 that gets a +9 bonus is the equivalent of a 10. A 10 is clearly worth multiple 1s.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJimBoBob View Post
    Parson told Sizemore that he was going to send the casters to the Magic Kingdom if the city fell. We can assume that he also told Maggie and Wanda, because to keep that part of the plan from them would be counterproductive and poor leadership. Wanda would have taken her scrolls with her, so they would not be falling into the hands of the enemy.
    Yes. That's my theory now, too. But a part of me deep inside thinks, "It's a big cabinet." I think Parson would've noticed her sneaking out with a pile of scrolls. Too late to do anything, and I'm pretty sure Wanda didn't think that far ahead, but amusing to me naetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by gatitcz View Post
    That seems like additive bonuses. When Parson said force multipliers, I thought it meant a 2 with a Warlord with 6 leadership would suddenly be like a 12 (Bogroll would normally have 2/2.5, but he's got Parson's 2 bonus). At the same time, I did get the impression that stack bonuses were +8 instead of X8. Hm...
    It's depth and breadth. Consider your resources. You can have 10 soldiers at strength 1, one soldier at strength 10, or five soldiers at strength five. Last one will wipe the floor with the first two.

    So, adding soldiers is additive. 1 soldier + 1 soldier + 1000 soldiers... the breadth keeps going right, but that's it.

    Adding bonuses is additive. +1 Warlord in hex, +1 personally led, +1 artifact, +1 dance fighting... the depth keeps going down, but that's it.

    The multiplier is mixing many troops with many bonuses. The square gets bigger a lot faster than the depth and breadth go up.

    Or so it might work. Depending on the cost of depth vs. the cost of breadth you can get some calculus involved to determine the optimum stack for a given amount of resources.

    You're right though, "All about multipliers" implies there's more to it than that.

    PS: I have simplified to the barest details. If you pipe up with "But what if a 10 is exponentially more powerful than a 1" or somesuch, then I bop you on the nose now. The concept can be applied to any given ruleset with additives in different directions; I'd rather not argue the semantics of what particular numbers actually mean in Erfworld.
    Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2009-01-28 at 03:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Eraniverse View Post
    Indeed. And we're not even sure how much this cost Ansom yet. That was a lot of crap.

    But in the warlords' defense, you're looking at things from a modern tactical perspective (as is Parson). Think British army during the Revolutionary War only more formal. It's the coalitions turn. To their thinking they are the ones inflicting strategies on others during this time period. It's nigh inconceivable for the enemy to be pursuing goals beyond a response to RCC attacks until Parson's own turn.
    Actually, any officer in the army above a company commander, (usually a captain or an O3) typically carries a pistol and no rifle. In reality, being armed with a pistol on a modern battlefield is the moral equivalent of being unarmed. There is no way that an officer armed only with a sidearm is going to make any kind of effective resistance to a normal grunt soldier. So, I think it is entirely reasonable, at least from a modern perspective, to have leaders essentially unarmed.

    David

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by djharr View Post
    Actually, any officer in the army above a company commander, (usually a captain or an O3) typically carries a pistol and no rifle. In reality, being armed with a pistol on a modern battlefield is the moral equivalent of being unarmed. There is no way that an officer armed only with a sidearm is going to make any kind of effective resistance to a normal grunt soldier. So, I think it is entirely reasonable, at least from a modern perspective, to have leaders essentially unarmed.

    David
    Any officer in direct command of combat troops in the field had bloody BETTER have a weapon close to hand. Modern combat situations have no defined lines (we are here, the enemy is over there) any longer, as 'unconventional' warfare has become the norm. You can get tapped anywhere at any time any more. And since Parson has no doubt played scenarios outside the Erfbox, he can bring this thinking into actual play.

    The RCC warlords are finding this out the hard way . . . prior to Parson, a warlord could feel safe surrounded by their own troops. Not no mo'. Erf warfare may now be divided into pre- and post- Parson eras . . .
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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Don't forget that arguing about the behavior of commanders in battles, ancient and especially modern, is only of limited applicability to Erf.

    Obviously commanders should be armed as heavily as most infantry if they run some risk of seeing the enemy in modern warfare. The further back we move, the less likely it is that they would be heavily armed.

    And then we have Erf, where they would have been perfectly safe, possibly, were it not for Sizemore's skills and Parson's innovative military doctrine--innovative to Erf, as targeting leadership is apparently more common on Earth. For all we know, dirtamancers have never before been used in battle in this manner. It could be everyone dismisses them as Stanley does.
    Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-01-28 at 11:51 AM.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Lord Manpower was caught unarmed in the same way, although a sword wouldn't have helped him stay alive in that case.
    Tarfu leads his elves that way against the dwagon doughnut, quite intentionally.
    The Transylvito warlords too, they fight unarmed or very nearly so (Mario is making it a knife fight, but doesn't have any bats around him).
    With so many warlords in combat without weapons, there must surely be a reason.


    Aside from showing off your rank by the fact that you've got lackeys and retainers to carry it for you, I imagine there is some sort of encumbrance going on, and they are in some way better off without the weapon.
    Carrying a big sword all the time could reduce your agility or even your move (mitigated by mounts).
    Being a flying unit could quite reasonably imply a lower base encumbrance limit... Carry too much and you can't get off the ground.
    It could also be that a leader who is directly engaged in combat loses some amount of leadership bonus, since they are less able to direct the overall battle when they are busy trying to not croak.

    Keeping them back out of the line of fire and/or without a weapon could be improving their leadership and dodge by a little bit at the expense of attack power.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Suicide Junkie View Post
    Aside from showing off your rank by the fact that you've got lackeys and retainers to carry it for you, I imagine there is some sort of encumbrance going on, and they are in some way better off without the weapon.
    Carrying a big sword all the time could reduce your agility or even your move (mitigated by mounts).
    Being a flying unit could quite reasonably imply a lower base encumbrance limit... Carry too much and you can't get off the ground.
    It could also be that a leader who is directly engaged in combat loses some amount of leadership bonus, since they are less able to direct the overall battle when they are busy trying to not croak.

    Keeping them back out of the line of fire and/or without a weapon could be improving their leadership and dodge by a little bit at the expense of attack power.
    Perhaps. The warlords we've seen carrying their own weapons are (IIRC): Jillian (who enjoys fighting for its own sake), Ansom (who wields an Arkentool, and perhaps would consider it inappropriate to put it in commoner hands), and Webinar (two occasions -- the first time, he was leading a small group and thus would immediately be on the front lines of any fight; the second time, he was going into the tunnels with the attitude that the mission was likely to go horribly wrong).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by Suicide Junkie View Post
    The Transylvito warlords too, they fight unarmed or very nearly so (Mario is making it a knife fight, but doesn't have any bats around him).
    I think the Transylvito warlords a bit of a special case. They are super powered without any weapons. IIRC you see one kicking a dwagon and it's head flying up 15 feet from the hit. Also there is the encumberance AND there is culture as well. Transyvito is heavly based on 50's greasers. They tended not to use many weapons other than knives and the like. Swords are a bit out of character.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    I think the Transylvito warlords a bit of a special case. They are super powered without any weapons. IIRC you see one kicking a dwagon and it's head flying up 15 feet from the hit. Also there is the encumberance AND there is culture as well. Transyvito is heavly based on 50's greasers. They tended not to use many weapons other than knives and the like. Swords are a bit out of character.
    Well, 50's greasers and mafia. It wouldn't surprise me to see a TV warlord with brass knuckles or a baseball bat.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Well, 50's greasers and mafia. It wouldn't surprise me to see a TV warlord with brass knuckles or a baseball bat.
    And various other bits of Italian-inspired pop culture, like the Mario warlord.

    Now I want Vinny to have an arkenbat. It would be appropriate. And, hey, if you're in some lines of business--no offense to Italian Americans--then a bat is a tool of the trade.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 139 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 126

    As far as force multipliers are concerned, consider Magic the Gathering, specifically this card. I assume Erfworld warlords work similarly. Well, to put it in MtG terms:

    Warlord:
    -banding*
    -creatures banded* with this warlord get +x/+x where x is this warlord's leadership score.

    Chief Warlord:
    -banding*
    -creatures you control** get +y/+y where y is this Warlord's hex bonus
    -creatures banded* with this warlord get +x/+x where x is this warlord's leadership score.

    *banding in MtG works like Erfworld's stacking mechanic.
    **Do we know if chief warlord bonuses apply to just units of their side or all units in their alliance?

    At least, thats how I picture the MtG-version of a Erf warworld working.

    Quote Originally Posted by djharr View Post
    Actually, any officer in the army above a company commander, (usually a captain or an O3) typically carries a pistol and no rifle. In reality, being armed with a pistol on a modern battlefield is the moral equivalent of being unarmed. There is no way that an officer armed only with a sidearm is going to make any kind of effective resistance to a normal grunt soldier. So, I think it is entirely reasonable, at least from a modern perspective, to have leaders essentially unarmed.

    David
    Pistols are primarily for defense against the fluke enemy soldier who gets through, and work perfectly for it. The small weapon is easily drawn and positioned for such a close target. A rifle would actually be ill-suited to the task. Hell, by the time an officer of those ranks needed to use a rifle, he'd be able to pick one up off the battlefield.
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