Balancing a Magic Class

[RoninFrosty]

Hey all,

Newish, long time lurker. Curious about something. For my HB world, I'd like to consolidate the two arcane classes to one, as I just really don't think you need two classes.

However, I'm not really sure how to go about doing it. I really like the spontaneous casting ability of the sorceror, but I don't like that he's limited to what spells he can learn. And I like the fact that the wizards can essentially learn any spell, unless he specializes, but the fact that he's committed to whatever he prepares for the day is lame (imo, of course).

Is there any way to combine the spontaneous casting ability with the ability to know more than just a piddly number of spells without making them broken?

[thegurullamen]

Prepare a certain number of spells that you can cast spontaneously? You prepare spells each morning. Any spell prepared can be cast spontaneously. These spells can change daily.

Prepare certain spells and have a warlock-like spontaneous list on the side (made up of fireball, lightning bolt, light and other common spells)?

Have a feat for prepared caster that allows them to spontaneously cast a number of spells equal to their Int mod?

Make a spellcraft check to cast a spell you had prepared with another prepared spell slot instead? (Or, losing Knock to cast Rope Trick after you'd already used your one prepared Rope Trick for the day.)

[The Demented One]

Sounds kinda like the Thaumaturge.

[RoninFrosty]

I very much enjoy your class, TDO, but I have to say, I'm not really looking to make a whole new class. I'd like to make just a basic change to one of the classes, or possibly take a trait from one to give to the other.

Here's a couple ideas I had, and I'm not really sure how unbalanced any of these would be:

• Remove the "spells known" list from the sorceror, essentially letting him spontaneously cast any spell. Seems to be the most unbalanced to me.
• Remove the "spell preparation" requirement from the wizard, letting him spontaneously cast any spell in his spellbook. Still seems kind of unbalanced, but could also be tempered by the DM, having the wizard quest for higher level spells.
• Maybe add an arcane flavor and the arcane spell list to a cleric frame, and work the kinks out from there.

I'm serious Demented, I love your class...I just think introducing the new abilities (hell, a whole new class) might scare my players away from Arcana.

Anyone got any thoughts/ideas?

[Ninetail]

Is there any way to combine the spontaneous casting ability with the ability to know more than just a piddly number of spells without making them broken?

No.

Either sort of casting is already broken once you pass a certain level, so removing or lightening what limitations exist can only make it more broken.

[Tempest Fennac]

Is the Spirit Shaman listed on here what you want? http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD...asses-Base.pdf . It needs Cha as well as Wis if you want to cast spells with saving throws, but the Dynamic Priest feat lets you ditch Wis (I'd just let you use Cha on it's own for casting in my games, though).

[Maroon]

Perhaps add a delayed sorcerer spell progression (starting level 6) to the wizard? You could limit 'sorcerer spells known' to spells already in the wizard's spellbook, and remove the 'two new spells' the wizard would get each level. You'd have to tweak the spells per day a bit for balance, but since it completely removes acquiring spells out of thin air (apart from the ones the wizard starts with) it'd probably be alright. It could be explained as beginning wizards having to memorize spells over and over, but experienced wizards being able to permanently imprint a spell onto his memory.

[RoninFrosty]

Ugh...so I'm starting to get the feeling that you can't do what I'm looking for without completely breaking it. I may end up having to look at something new. Demented's class is good, but just for discussion's sake, how feasible would it be to change Arcane casting to a Psionic style system? Just figure out how much MP (for lack of a better term) a spell would cost (might be easier to do by level...spells of X level cost Y points), and figure out how much MP a caster of a certain level should have. Make him be required to learn the spell...is that too much?

[Fax Celestis]

Ugh...so I'm starting to get the feeling that you can't do what I'm looking for without completely breaking it. I may end up having to look at something new. Demented's class is good, but just for discussion's sake, how feasible would it be to change Arcane casting to a Psionic style system? Just figure out how much MP (for lack of a better term) a spell would cost (might be easier to do by level...spells of X level cost Y points), and figure out how much MP a caster of a certain level should have. Make him be required to learn the spell...is that too much?

Actually, they did the work for you already in Unearthed Arcana.

[RoninFrosty]

Oh wow, thanks for that link, FC...I might have to study that a little more.