Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga

[averagejoe]

I'd say forget it. Trying to separate an SO from their friends is an inherently controlling behavior. In fact, every list of "signs your mate may be an abuser" has that particular behavior listed prominently.

At the same time, this seems like a topic one could discuss without trying to separate their SO from their friends. One could make it clear that they don't want to drive a rift between their SO and her friends, but still make it clear that there are some actions her friends commonly take that bother you, and what you might do about it.

Because they've got enough to resent me from, and I don't need anything turned against me anymore. Apparently my helping my girlfriend to quit smoking and keep her from going back is because I'm a heartless bastard that only wants to control her.

I know this isn't what you were asking about, but I know quite a few people who say this sort of thing a lot. (My sister being one of them, now that I think about it.) I often see people who think they are doing something nice for someone else take the high road without thinking about it, and they refuse to listen to any opinions other than their own because of this.

Now, I may be completely off base here, but there's enough here for me to at least suspect this might be the case. It's perfectly possible that you aren't aware of it; helping people, I've noticed, is one thing people can be remarkably short sighted about. I'm just saying that you might actually be controlling and not realize it. Remember that controlling someone in a good direction is still being controlling.

This might not be the case. I might just be projecting; as I said, I see this sort of thing a lot. And maybe, in light of this, it might be a bit hypocritical of me to give out free advice like this. I just thought I'd bring it up.

[The Extinguisher]

I'm not trying to seperate anyone from anyone. I just need a way to tell her I how I feel about those friends in particular.

And I will admit I'm a little controling, and I'm working on it, I find that keeping someone from smoking hardly is "I want to control your life", especially when she's the one who wanted to quit. I just provided more of a push. Heck, I even gave up on it, and stopped caring yesterday, because of the whole "they think you're being controlling" thing.

But hell, I don't know. I could be a controlling bastard and not know it. It just seems wrong, that if she wasn't my significant other, or if it was something worse than tobacco, then this would be a non-issue.

[averagejoe]

I find that keeping someone from smoking hardly is "I want to control your life"

Frankly, yes it is. You are trying to stop someone from doing something they want to do. In other words, you're taking an aspect of their life and trying to control it. It doesn't help your relationship and, long term, it really doesn't help them quit smoking. One can encourage someone to stop, and support them when they try to stop, but it is ultimately their decision to do so. Not commenting on your situation, just this as a general statement.

It just seems wrong, that if she wasn't my significant other, or if it was something worse than tobacco, then this would be a non-issue.

If she wasn't your SO then it should hardly be a non-issue. I've had friends aggressively try to make friends not smoke, and it just doesn't work. The same rules basically apply as for your SO.

If it's something worse than tobacco then, yes, you probably should step in. I don't see the relevance, however.

[Felixaar]

De-trick, stop liking three girls at once. Pick one, ask her out, and move on from there. Outside of that? Leave girl politics to the girls.

FMA, probably should talk to your SO about it. Keep in mind that many people would feel more attatched to their friends than their SO's. Consider this - are you trying to change your SO? Because attempting to change someone is a long and often pointless endeavour. Believe me, you're better off alone than with someone you don't want to be with - my friend recently broke up with his girlfirend, and I wasn't surpised at all because the two of them never had a chance - they are VERY different people, and he is a controlling person who kept trying to "fix" her. At any rate: you really need to talk to your SO about it, but be careful.

[Pyrian]

I'm not trying to seperate anyone from anyone. I just need a way to tell her I how I feel about those friends in particular.

You're never going to be able to separate those acts. They're not even really distinct acts, since how you feel about those people inherently suggests not associating with them (at least to me, and probably her).

Pyrian, isn't that what I said? ... I suggested some compromise between our versions would probably be about the best.

See, but that latter statement is exactly what I wrote all that to disagree with. I say go ahead and shine your own personality intensely and let the chips fall!

[xPANCAKEx]

Serp & Pyrian - i think the statement "how would you prefer me to look" can't be pulled off without some degree of submission (im not talking to the degree of putting on a gimp mask sub behavior of course - more just defering to them without just cause)

but serps suggestion of the bold-n-cheeky "guess you'll have to take me shopping for a new outfit then " could be closer to the mark, although worst case scenario from that is they try and do some sort of "make-over" rather than just work with what you're already into



De-trick - serpentine has it right on this one. If she knew that you were friends with sam and still expected you to keep quiet then she is WAY off mark
Also gunna have to disagree with Felixaar on one thing (a rarity - F's advice is otherwise solid). Nothing wrong with liking more than 1 person at a time (as long as any interaction is kept all above board and no one is in the dark)... but in this situation liking two people you KNOW have a mutual distate for each other is not a brilliant idea

FMA -
The smoking thing.
Shes gotta do that on her own or she'll never truely quit. It has to be her decision - and one not forced by your actions
and don't feel its your fault if she doesn't quit - you won't have failed her as an SO if she doesn't stay on the no-smoking wagon

the friend thing -
*what were you actions to get them so wound up and call you controlling/a heartless bastard. Im sensing theres a bit more to it than just the occasional "oh hunny, dont spark up - you're better than that".
*What have you been doing to give her the "push"
*and what is it about her friends that make them "a bad influence, irrational and probably just a little crazy " - apart from their distaste for you?

[Syka]

FMA- I'm with the others, you seem a little controlling. I'm sure she already knows you don't like her friends, so if you tell her that's saying not to hang out with them.

The others have it pretty well covered. Coming from someone who used to be in a relationship with someone whose controlling...those friends are usually right. There is a difference between trying to help them keep their promise to themselves not to quit and being adament that they will not be smoking no matter what THEY want, YOU won't let them. THAT is controlling.

I get the impression you've probably let her know how you feel about her friends before and, mostly likely, tried separating them. That is...very controlling, actually.

[Pyrian]

Serp & Pyrian - i think the statement "how would you prefer me to look" can't be pulled off without some degree of submission (im not talking to the degree of putting on a gimp mask sub behavior of course - more just defering to them without just cause)

"Some degree" includes negligible. But even played straight, sometimes a sub just needs to find a dom, y'know? It's not your style, I get that, but I guarantee you it will work on some women, and I completely disagree that it's necessarily invalid just because it's not your style. Quite the contrary; adopting a behavior someone isn't comfortable with just because it's supposed to "work" is self-defeating behavior because they won't keep it up, and so will be meeting exactly the wrong people.

[The Extinguisher]

It's not. She quit, for a good month now. And she hasn't mentioned anything about it. Then suddenly, because she doesn't go out for smokes anymore, I'm controlling.

And no, she doens't know my opinions on her friends, because I've found them tolerable until recently. I think it's more of, I need to remove myself from them.

[xPANCAKEx]

FMA-
how did you find out that they view you as controlling?

"Some degree" includes negligible. But even played straight, sometimes a sub just needs to find a dom, y'know? It's not your style, I get that, but I guarantee you it will work on some women, and I completely disagree that it's necessarily invalid just because it's not your style. Quite the contrary; adopting a behavior someone isn't comfortable with just because it's supposed to "work" is self-defeating behavior because they won't keep it up, and so will be meeting exactly the wrong people.

oh no - don't get me wrong - my ideal type of lass are the type who can stand up for themselves.

im just not too keen on the idea of someone going "i don't like xyz about you" and the immediate reaction to be "ok, what do i need to do" unless it was in a situation where he solicited her opinion. If he'd said "hey, how do i look today" and opened himself up for it then thats a completely different kettle of fish, but if she came out with "you look disheveled" without much of a prompt then i take concern.

But you are indeed right - different people have different approaches, and some will work better for certain people than others

[Felixaar]

FMA, I hate to say it but I really think you need to compromise - and if you can't do that, then maybe it's time to kiss this one goodbye, cause if she has to make a decision between her friends and her boyfriend I don't think you're going to like the answer.

[skywalker]

De-trick: How about, "dude, you were threatening to beat up my friend. I like you, but that's not cool."?

I like this advice. Any situation where someone is about to get jumped/beaten up/whatever needs to be defused. Telling the intended victim that an attack is coming isn't "selling out" your friend. It's helping another person, regardless of whether or not you like them.

I'd stay away from the violent one.

...

On the general FMA thing, has anybody considered that her friends are the controlling ones? Seems to me like FMA is encouraging her to stick with a choice she made, whereas her friends are trying (in a somewhat manipulative way, IMO) to get her back to sharing their habit. Personally, if both sides are equally controlling, I side with the person who's encouraging against a destructive habit.

People change when they're in relationships. Oftentimes, friends don't like that, especially when it puts a crimp in their lifestyle (and trust me, having a friend who suddenly doesn't smoke puts a big crimp in some smokers' lifestyles).

[Felixaar]

Hmm. Skywalker also makes a very good point.

..now I don't know who to vote for!

[Syka]

FMA, I'm not really sure then.

Maybe try and get a more concrete reason why they think you are controlling? If SHE made the decision to quit then it's not your fault. It's probably just easier to blame you since you aren't their friend.

[Serpentine]

I think Firey Sir Wheel-holder just needs to look at this carefully himself. You need to ask: "Am I helping her to do something she wants to do, rather than making her do something I want to do? Really? Really? Am I sure? Am I sure I'm sure?" (this applies to any issue, not just smoking) If the answer is a resounding "YES!"... actually, even if it isn't... you need to talk to her, find out whether she thinks you're controlling or manipulative in any way (really, hers is the opinion that matters), and find out what she thinks of what her friends are saying - if she doesn't already know they think that, just tell her what they've been saying, how you know it, how it's making you feel, and that (if true) you're worried that it might be true, or that she might think it is.

[averagejoe]

I think Firey Sir Wheel-holder just needs to look at this carefully himself. You need to ask: "Am I helping her to do something she wants to do, rather than making her do something I want to do? Really? Really? Am I sure? Am I sure I'm sure?" (this applies to any issue, not just smoking) If the answer is a resounding "YES!"... actually, even if it isn't... you need to talk to her, find out whether she thinks you're controlling or manipulative in any way (really, hers is the opinion that matters), and find out what she thinks of what her friends are saying - if she doesn't already know they think that, just tell her what they've been saying, how you know it, how it's making you feel, and that (if true) you're worried that it might be true, or that she might think it is.

I love the smell of communication in the morning. Smells like... victory.

I cannot stress how important the bold part is. It's pretty much how I try to live life, and the fact that I do is one of the few things where I'll look at myself and say, "Yeah, that is a great feature of myself. It was a good call, Joe, doing that."

[Hesquidor]

I'm looking for a piece of advice/trying to feel out general opinion;

Is it okay for a girl to send a guy flowers?

Allow me to elaborate my situation. I take part in a local amateur dramatics group, of which this guy I admire is also a part of. He's a really nice guy and I'm really in awe of his seemingly boundless energy. Not only is he part of my group, but he also takes part in a couple more time intensive activities. Recently though, he seems a bit down and a lot less energetic as usual (as all his commitments seem to be colliding at the moment), so I want to give him something tangible that will show him that someone is noticing and appreciating all his time and effort. He has a pretty big performance next week and I thought giving him flowers (I was thinking a single non-red rose or something else that isn't too frilly) might be kind of appropriate.

But would he actually appreciate the gift? Or would he think why the hell he's been giving a stupid flower? Any and all opinions would be very much appreciated.

[Reinholdt]

@ Hesquidor - It had better be okay.
And I think he'd appreciate it. May be a little confused at first, but would probably still like it.
But that's just me.

*goes back to lurking*

[Cristo Meyers]

I'm looking for a piece of advice/trying to feel out general opinion;

Is it okay for a girl to send a guy flowers?

Allow me to elaborate my situation. I take part in a local amateur dramatics group, of which this guy I admire is also a part of. He's a really nice guy and I'm really in awe of his seemingly boundless energy. Not only is he part of my group, but he also takes part in a couple more time intensive activities. Recently though, he seems a bit down and a lot less energetic as usual (as all his commitments seem to be colliding at the moment), so I want to give him something tangible that will show him that someone is noticing and appreciating all his time and effort. He has a pretty big performance next week and I thought giving him flowers (I was thinking a single non-red rose or something else that isn't too frilly) might be kind of appropriate.

But would he actually appreciate the gift? Or would he think why the hell he's been giving a stupid flower? Any and all opinions would be very much appreciated.

Depends on the guy, really. If you really think he'd appreciate the gesture, then go for it.

[Coidzor]

Is it okay for a girl to send a guy flowers?

But would he actually appreciate the gift? Or would he think why the hell he's been giving a stupid flower? Any and all opinions would be very much appreciated.

Yes. Generally fairly later in a courtship than for a guy to send flowers to a girl, but since that is not the context we're doing things in...

Like, it's not as common to send get-well flowers to a guy, but it's still an acceptable act, though I think a tasteful card is the more popular route these days for both sexes, but I could be acting off of erroneous data there.

Since he's a thespian, he's going to understand the practice. Even more so if it's the type which allows a small squig of paper to carry a small note to said thespian. So, odds are, he'll appreciate the sentiment, even if he personally doesn't care much for flowers.

Odds are, if such things happen with any regularity he'll be familiar with the practice and even have received one or two, even if only from the parentals... So one that's not from someone related to him would be...intriguing at least.

Just make sure you keep a balance between not sending signals that you want in his pants and outright burning him if you attach a note. Which I'm thinking flower choice is the first step in that process.....

[snoopy13a]

I'm looking for a piece of advice/trying to feel out general opinion;

Is it okay for a girl to send a guy flowers?

Allow me to elaborate my situation. I take part in a local amateur dramatics group, of which this guy I admire is also a part of. He's a really nice guy and I'm really in awe of his seemingly boundless energy. Not only is he part of my group, but he also takes part in a couple more time intensive activities. Recently though, he seems a bit down and a lot less energetic as usual (as all his commitments seem to be colliding at the moment), so I want to give him something tangible that will show him that someone is noticing and appreciating all his time and effort. He has a pretty big performance next week and I thought giving him flowers (I was thinking a single non-red rose or something else that isn't too frilly) might be kind of appropriate.

But would he actually appreciate the gift? Or would he think why the hell he's been giving a stupid flower? Any and all opinions would be very much appreciated.

It is alright and he would appreciate the gift. After all, when it comes to gifts, it is the thought that counts. Still, while he'll appreciate the gesture and the thought behind it, he may not actually like the gift itself.

I'd suggest as possible substitute:

1) Bottle of Wine- if he likes wine of course
2) Homemade baked goods- one of the best presents to get
3) Box of chocolates
4) A little fruit or cheese basket
5) Gift certificate to a resturant or movies

[Syka]

I voted bring him a 'bouquet' of baked goods. Even as a girl, I'd enjoy that far more than flowers.



Oh, and I realized what is is that bugs me so about the marriage questions. It's the implicit "...and if you aren't, what is wrong with you guys? I mean, you can't be in a relationship for a year and a half without wanting to get married unless there is a problem..." that accompanies it. Swear to God, that's the look that follows when I mention it's not happening anytime soon.

Our relationship is fine, we are serious, we just don't feel a need to get married yet. Why does there have to be a problem? We've both talked about it and have the same feelings on the matter so why does that mean there is an issue?

(I realized this after running into a friend's mom yesterday at the grocery store. She asked about me and Oz and did the whole 'so are things serious, like marriage serious?' and was very surprised when I told her that while it's been discussed, it wouldn't be any time in the near future. She also has one daughter married, one recently engaged, and the youngest is nearly engaged. All are between 24 and 19 right now.)

[snoopy13a]

Oh, and I realized what is is that bugs me so about the marriage questions. It's the implicit "...and if you aren't, what is wrong with you guys? I mean, you can't be in a relationship for a year and a half without wanting to get married unless there is a problem..." that accompanies it. Swear to God, that's the look that follows when I mention it's not happening anytime soon.

Our relationship is fine, we are serious, we just don't feel a need to get married yet. Why does there have to be a problem? We've both talked about it and have the same feelings on the matter so why does that mean there is an issue?

(I realized this after running into a friend's mom yesterday at the grocery store. She asked about me and Oz and did the whole 'so are things serious, like marriage serious?' and was very surprised when I told her that while it's been discussed, it wouldn't be any time in the near future. She also has one daughter married, one recently engaged, and the youngest is nearly engaged. All are between 24 and 19 right now.)

People's views on marriage differ across the country. It seems the people you know are in the "marry early" crowd. Most of the people I know are in the "marry later" crowd. This means marriage before 25 is very uncommon. A year and a half really isn't that long anyway. For example, my sister has been dating her boyfriend for three or four years and they've been living together for two years. They haven't gotten engaged yet although they are looking at houses. Yes, us people from the northeast will buy houses together before we get married

Either way, it isn't any of their business.

[Syka]

I'm beginning to realize I do live in a marry early area. I know a number of people who were married before they could legally drink (one of whom was then divorced before she could legally drink), and even more who were/will be married before they are 24.

Most seem to be engaged within a year (one was married by the year mark), I'm really an anomaly. My sister got engaged right around the year and a half mark (a bit over), and she's 19. Our friends who are engaged got engaged after three months. Heck, a number of my SISTER'S friends are married now. oo'

I dunno...I just don't feel the need to get married to validate the relationship and I dislike the judgment that comes along with not even being closed to engaged yet. We aren't even living together, we're living with our parents for God's sake! Even if we did want to get married, I wouldn't want to do it while we're both still dependant on our parents. oO But I still get looked at like I'm nuts for not expecting a ring on my finger yet.


I told my sister after she got engaged that me and Oz were reaching the stage where we'd be getting questions, since we were past the year mark. She said she didn't get any questions and, as I told her, "We're 23 and 21 (almost 24 and 22 now) and been together a while...people like to assume...><"

[Quincunx]

It's the "Why aren't you breeding yet?" question in a less vulgar form. Of course it's insulting.

Get the zinger retort sufficiently vulgar or ironclad and word will get around (in a non-military community--military have been, in my limited experience, more stubborn) to not ask you that question. It's nice and peaceful once you get to that point.

Demographic info: from a family and social circle which married in the mid- to late-20s, wed into a social circle which hasn't gotten around to it yet (for the most part) and family dates unknown.

[Syka]

His extended family is military. x.x He told them "never" when his uncle asked when we were getting married, and I ignored his aunt when she asked me (I wasn't being rude, she was drunk and kinda yelled it at me as I was stepping out the door to go home Christmas Eve...I pretended not to hear).

The never didn't stop them. >< A week or so ago we got "So when are you having kids?" I about died. He reiterated a never. I just shook my head no and laughed.

But yeah...it's just the attitude that comes with the "Oh...well..." that invariably follows my telling someone it won't happen for a while. And it's always the older people that do that. My friends have never bugged me, nor have our parents (well, my mom has asked and totally understands our not rushing anything and supports it completely).

My mom suggested I say "I'll tell you when I figure it out." XD I'll probably start doing that.

[Serpentine]

Hesquidor: First of all, I think that's a beautiful idea. I'm a bit torn, though... On the one hand, I'm sure there's things he'd like more than flowers. On the other hand, it's not exactly the gift that matters, but the message behind it, and there's not much that can get across the message of "cheer up, someone admires you!" like flowers. So, my suggestion: Get something a bit more permanent, instead or as well, that hopefully sends the same message. A fake flower, maybe, but a good one - I have sort of a "plush" rose. It's kinda soft and cuddly. I reckon that could work. Alternatively, some other stuffed toy, something that he can keep nearby and look at whenever he gets down. If you can accompany it with a letter or a card, basically saying what you said before, even better.

On stupid marriage-questions: One of my cousins got married last year. The Christmas before, when it was a fairly popular topic of conversation amongst my family, another cousin asked, "so when are you guys getting married?" like it was a given I said, "not anytime soon." Ex and I had been together for 3.5 years at that point. Within a couple of months, he had fallen out of love with me. A month after that, I noticed it. 3 months later... we was kaput. I are seer
Take that nosey cousin Abbey!

[SilentNight]

Hesquidor:I'm going to echo everyone else a bit. I don't think it would be a faux pax, since it's really the thought that counts which it sounds like he'll understand. That said, there are few thing s that can brighten a person's day like cookies or just a big hug.

[Serpentine]

How about a voucher, "Good for ONE (1) hug." OR! A whole book of those vouchers!

[SilentNight]

How about a voucher, "Good for ONE (1) hug." OR! A whole book of those vouchers!

Absolutely brilliant. Better yet, bake cupcakes and stick them in the top, although that might be overdoing it.