Erfworld 141 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 128

[kreszantas]

Quoting from the opening page: "It's the little things that make the difference sometimes"

In Panel 4: you can see on the wall the remaining archers raining arrows down on the crowd... They can hit 'air' units. They may not do a lot of damage to Ansom, and we know arrows have hit the carpet before. Do enough damage to the carpet itself it may get destroyed, or at least rendered unfunctional just as Wanda did to it earlier. Note Ansom does NOT have the pliers out so that is another element in play as well. Parson now has seen the unit stats change, and will have to adjust. The fill courtyard was a slaughter, too easy, suicide runs. All those comments meant something was going to shift it. This is not a D-EX-M and I would hope readers would stop misusing/abusing that, those that do are beginning to sound like the boy who cried wolf too many times.

Now like I stated in the last thread and will repeat for emphasis... Flying Elvis does bellyflop on to Ansom's troops would be a D-Ex-M...

[NobodySpecial]

If I had to pick one reason why this strip irritated me so, it would be because it appears that a handful of Archons are more powerful than the entire coalition. Tremendous casters who can dance fight, appear to be interchangably Warlords and troops when the need arises, AND able to project bonuses across zones that no other unit can do? Why would Charlescomm even bother with allying with anyone when he could just waltz in after the Kilkenny fight and level anything and everything?

[Aquillion]

If I had to pick one reason why this strip irritated me so, it would be because it appears that a handful of Archons are more powerful than the entire coalition. Tremendous casters who can dance fight, appear to be interchangably Warlords and troops when the need arises, AND able to project bonuses across zones that no other unit can do? Why would Charlescomm even bother with allying with anyone when he could just waltz in after the Kilkenny fight and level anything and everything?

Keep in mind, we have not actually seen the Archons do quite as much in combat as people think. We saw them take out some dragons that were barely at 1 HP -- that looked impressive, but was mostly show, given that the dragons were critically wounded.

They hit Wanda, but that was a sneak attack from behind, when they had her massively outnumbered, and they still failed to croak her.

Now, yes, they have a lot of other useful abilities (detecting spells, communications, providing bonuses), but so far we've only seen them acting indirectly or in situations where circumstances overwhelmingly favor them (I suspect that this is Charlie's intent. Notice how the one time they were going to enter into a potentially risky fight -- against Stanley -- he found a reason to back out.)

The one Archon who died in the strip so far was easily one-hitted by Gobwin Knob's static air defenses, and Charlie knew her by name. This implies that the number of Archons available to him are fairly limited -- he might not be able to field too many more than this. Additionally, we have seen that he is based on a mountaintop fortress, which didn't look much like a castle capable of supporting real troops -- he might not have anything but Archons.

My guess would be that they are a force roughly equivalent to Stanley's Dwagons -- probably worth less individually, but with some nice side-skills to make up for it. The reason why the Archons have been doing so much better in the strip is not because they're ZOMGAWESOME, but because Charlie has been very conservative in using them, while Stanley and Parson's position didn't allow for the same care with the Dwagons.

[Guppy]

almost all of the air defences...

Plus one uncroaked Archon. Chekov's Gun is on the table.

[fendrin]

Plus one uncroaked Archon. Chekov's Gun is on the table.

You mean the uncroaked archon that was disintegrated in panel 6 of this page?

[Zael Zuran]

Keep in mind, we have not actually seen the Archons do quite as much in combat as people think. We saw them take out some dragons that were barely at 1 HP -- that looked impressive, but was mostly show, given that the dragons were critically wounded.

I tend to agree with your observations regarding the archons.

They seem more like an advanced utility unit than specialized in any one area. They cast, dance, fight, etc. But they don't appear particularly durable as a side effect, nor are they as potent as any specialist. A pity we didn't get to see a more accurate test of their abilities against undamaged dwagons, without Jillian present.

This is somewhat backed up by Charlie's willingness to put them in harm's way. It is directly proportionate to the amount of money he is being payed.

They seem to have an appeal as freelance utility casters for armies that prefer more traditional soldiers, reserving their caster resources for healers.

Unfortunately, since we don't know the mechanics of recruiting in Erfworld, we can't really do more than speculate. But certain war game rules tend to be universal.

Namely, advanced units cost more than grunts. The question is, costs what? Money isn't the only factor determining armies in Erfworld. If it was pure cash, no one would need to hire Charlie. Being able to meet Charlie's fees would also allow them to field casters of their own in addition to conventional troops. If cash is the only material resource in Erfworld, then I'd have to guess time is the other commodity making caster recruiting an issue.

[TamLin]

How does Dance Fighting even work? Why doesn't everyone learn to dance fight if it's so advantageous? What are the advantages of not using it?

Well, primarily it's just a joke. The lit major in me also wants to speculate that it's a comment on the sometimes weird trend in entertainment of communicating violence through dance ("West Side Story", "Beat It", for example), but that might be overanalyzing. Either way, it's a little bit much to examine it from a tactical perspective.

As near as I can tell, in most cases it seems to be that the people who hate the Coalition (and Charlie) dislike the strip, whereas those who don't are generally okay with it.

[glissle]

I hope this will flow better in the book with additional battle/chatter scenes in between the reversals.

it would have been nice if the Archons had displayed some cross-zone communication in a previous strip

As teratorn pointed out, they projected the contract for Ansom to read and touch. So they can project a DDR mat onto his carpet.

And recall that Stanley's Eyemancy link-up was used for realtime battle direction, even shouting "Leeeroy!!!", not just intelligence.
As Parson put it, "Thinkamancer will be able to send realtime battle instructions to uncroaked warlords (Ansom gets a puppet show)"

Ok, why did RC troops need to die to set this up?

In the first panel, the RC troops look fierce; in the last panel, to me they seem to be wide-eyed with fear. Perhaps they wouldn't have been willing to do something as absurd as play DDR if the ineffectiveness of the usual approach had not been vividly demonstrated to them.

Spoiler

Show

My bet is Maggie will try something and get mind-booped by Charlie himself.

Just fits with pattern. Parson tries something Charlie and his Archons interfere.

I'm afraid you're probably right. And with the flying carpet, they can't do much else to Ansom in the courtyard (I'm not sure he's on the ground in the last panel), so probably Parson will have to retreat to the dungeon. Ironically, though, Wanda is more likely to have plot armor than Sizemore.

How does Dance Fighting even work? Why doesn't everyone learn to dance fight if it's so advantageous?

Presumably it costs schmuckers to train in it. So far we've seen all of a stack dancing in the same style, so it may limit what units you can mix in a stack. Note that there are no heavies or KISS (who can dance, but not necessarily Thriller-style) visible in the dance battle.

[Bilgore]

If I had to pick one reason why this strip irritated me so, it would be because it appears that a handful of Archons are more powerful than the entire coalition. Tremendous casters who can dance fight, appear to be interchangably Warlords and troops when the need arises, AND able to project bonuses across zones that no other unit can do?

Actually, I would disagree with all of that.

We've seen 4 archons who are apparently warlord-class units, and the rest haven't been used.

As I see it, Archons are heavy units, and 4 of them have been made into warlords. This makes each of the four roughly equivalent to Jilian or Wanda.

As for the casting, we don't know whether it's even the archons in action, or merely Charlie using the Arkendish. (Yes they killed some dwagons with "magic", but that might merely be their equivalent to a breath weapon as opposed to true magic. We know some units have special powers, such as dagons creating flame, bubbles, etc... )

[MoredanKantose]

Hello, Matt...

Because he doesnt know all the rules

Neither do we, so the author can come with Deus Ex Machina solutions as many times as he wants and he only has to say "Ah... you just did not know all the rules".

Dont be ridiculous

{scrubbed}

I know perfectly well what a deus ex machina is. I am a storyteller myself.

I stop reading this because I guess we need a moderator to act over this two posts: Yours and mine. {Done}

Bye.

[MoredanKantose]

Hello, El_Chupachichis (I guess that your nickname was not banned because this forum is English-speaking ;) but I find it funny).

He saw something coming, just not sure what.

Indeed. Does not change my point, I think.

if you're convinced your side will lose, you might hoard items that will allow you to save your own skin, rather than waste them preserving forces that are doomed anyway

And you will not risk your life and your sanity, as Wanda did many times.
Hence, the behaviour of Wanda is not reasonable.

1. Ansom Victory, and Parson learns some humility before returning to Earth.

Apprently classic storytelling is very important for the authors of this comic. Unfortunately. Therefore, I do not thing that the "Protagonist" will loose.

2. Parson Victory, by the narrowest of margins, some key characters die.

This would be my bet. Based on storytelling. And I hate it, and it bores me, when I get the impression that the authors are so classic in their stories that I can predict events based upon "what would be good classic storytelling".

3. Ansom eliminated as a major character -- either through croaking or dissolution of his coalition -- and Parson captured by Charlescomm when sufficiently weakened.

A very good possibility, and quite realistic... if it were not for classic storytelling.

4. Stanley returns, creating a Yin-Yang balance between opposing forces, forcing a Mexican Standoff scenario. Coalition forced to retreat to more defensible lines, Ansom chastened by his experience but holding the coalition together by a thread, just enough to hold Stanley back.

I do not quite believe in this, both because of storytelling AND inner consistency. Ansom gathered a huge coalition to destroy Stanley. And standoff would mean, IMHO, that the coalition breaks into pieces. He would be forced to attack once more... and loose.

Dying or not, this is another question.

Thank you for your attention. Best regards,

Moredan

[MoredanKantose]

Hello, Multilis:

Parson didn't know about forest hexes

Yes, yes, yes... please notice, that I am not yelling "inconsistency!". I am yelling "deus ex!". See below for details.

In beginning of comic, Wanda discovered magic kingdom spell that could summon Parson. Deus Ex?

Hardly, because it is the precondition of the story. But if this story had begun with the war, then if would have been a deus ex, resolving a plot ("Stanley is a situation where there is no more hope for him") with something the reader could not expect (of course IF during the story before we got no explanation about this as a possibility).

Deus ex machina is a term of storytelling. They resolve or change dramatically a plot (which can be a subplot) by means the reader had no way to forsee, in order to maintain a desired structure of the story (in this case, "the protagonists win by the slightest possible margin in the last possible moment" - a classic, so classic that is bores me to death, sorry).

There have been many in this comic. But the most important ones are, IMHO, the ones I told. And being so near a "resolution", deus ex regarding major points frustrate me.

Thank you for your attention. Best regards,

Moredan.

[teratorn]

I If cash is the only material resource in Erfworld, then I'd have to guess time is the other commodity making caster recruiting an issue.

Yes, it should be time. Parson probably still has a lot of schmuckers but he can't pop the proportional number of units, if only he could hire a few for a turn or two.

The bonus system is a big help here. You pop a warlord (takes time and costly) and then a large number of weaker units (fast and cheap) and let them share the warlord bonus. It's a question of balance. This allows you to build a stack with a challenge rating higher than two or three warlords for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time. The caveat is that you still need to risk the warlord or at least find of way of giving extra bonus to those troops (sharing the overlord bonus, dance fighting, etc).

I don't understand the complaints about archons being so strong. You only hire mercenaries if they do make a difference. The archons were in the rescue party to compensate for the lack of Ansom's bonus! We knew they were uber powerful. Those four archons should have been able to take Ansom himself.

About dance fighting, the world was made by a bunch of elvises, and we've already seen it in a west side story setting. I see it as a coordination bonus between troops: dance fighters don't get into each others way, and can dance their way through the enemy lines. It didn't shock that much but then I've probably traveled too much by bus through southern India and watched too many Vijay movies: between each scene of asskicking he does a lot of dancing.

Deux ex machina is a term of storytelling.

No it's not. It's some mangling of French and a Latin expression you've heard somewhere.

[MoredanKantose]

Is that some French plot device? Two in the machine?

You can look at the wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina), but I give you an explanation from other point of view:

Sometimes an author finds that the "logic" results of a situation in the scenario he created, are not the "desired" results. The hero wins too soon. The hero dies. Third parties become protagnosits. The hero is humiliated or has to do something dishonorable. It depends on the story and what the author wants to do, but the point is: The author realises that the story does not go where he wants it to go.

If he is a good author, then usually he re-thinks the story: He changes the initial situation, so that its logical conclusion becomes the desired one.

If he is a bad author, however, he just puts a "magic device" just before or after the point where the story "fails", to "correct it". For example: The hero is dead and the evil ones won. Ok... now suddenly comes the god Herakles and resucitates the hero, punishes the evil ones, and that's it.

Or suddenly the hero discovers he has wonderful mutuant power which save the day. Or suddenly a long lost ally comes just in time to save everybody.

This kind of "cheap resources" are called "deus ex machina", what is Latin and means "a god from the machine". This is because a Greek author (Euripides) made exactly what I told you with the god Herakles and many other gods, and they used machines to hang an actor representing the god, down to the stage.

Usually an author should be honest enough with its readers to give them an advice. For example, if we would have seen the Archons pracicing this "DDR" dance fighting in some panel before, alone in their lair of Charlescomm, the plot could have been exactly the same, but I would not be speaking about a deus ex machina... the author warned us, somewhat.

So, that's it. Have a nice day.

[Drascin]

I also felt this page fell a bit flat, to me. The pace of the turnarounds is just too fast and sudden, and makes the story feel more like a seesaw than a give-and-take. But that's just me.

Either way, I feel the need to get in there with my own mat and show that pansy Ansom how you play Step . That song in the last panel looks so extremely easy I can only assume he's not really that good at it (though the one in panel 8 looks far more respectable, given it has three-hits and such, so I dunno)

[MattR]

Moredan he was pointing out that you keep saying 'deux ex machina' which is the wrong way to spell deus ex machina, the link you just gave spells it right. You pretty much missed the point.

The lengthy explanation about what deus ex machina is was unnecessary because you were just copying parts of it from the wiki link youd already provided. Whats even funnier is that the example you gave, being a true example of deus ex machina in its most literal sense, doesn't compare at all to the situation in the comic.

Your opinion that its 'deux ex' or rather deus ex, is just that ..your OPINION, unsupported by elements of the comic. There's been enough hints throughout so that when it happened DDR might be surprising but not completely unexpected.

Considering the length of time between the pages going up I see no reason why they'd need to resort to deus ex to resolve plot issues, the whole story has probably been written up for a long time now and could have been tweaked IF they felt this new *plot twist* was needed as a real balance. At the moment we don't know how effective this DDR will be, if it fails to be as effective as you think it is are you still going to call it deus ex?

[MoredanKantose]

No it's not. It's some mangling of French and a Latin expression you've heard somewhere.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

The lengthy explanation about what deus ex machina is was unnecessary because you were just copying parts of it from the wiki

No, I was not.

being a true example of deus ex machina in its most literal sense, doesnt compare at all to the situation in the comic.

We disagree.

Your opinion that its 'deux ex' or rather deus ex, is just that ..your OPINION.

Of course.

Unsupported by elements of the comic

We disagree.

At the moemtn we dont know how effective this DDR will be, if it fails to be as effective as you think it is are you still going to call it deus ex?

I am working with Parson's opinion, "that could well be game" if I remember it well.

If it is pretty much irrelevant, not provoking any major change in the forces, I will no longer call it deus ex. Not even deux ex :D .

[MoredanKantose]

If it is pretty much irrelevant, not provoking any major change in the forces, I will no longer call it deus ex. Not even deux ex :D .

Correction: No, not even then.

Because the desired storytelling effect ("the protagonist has a new problem, he will not just be able to carry on with his plan, everything is in danger - emotion! thrill!") is already reached (or intended, in my case, as I told, the strip provoked boredom and frustration).

For details on why getting a desired and unexpected storytelling effect using something which can not be forseen by the reader, is exactly what I call deus ex machina, please look at my lengthy explanation. Or at the wikipedia, if it really repeats what I told there, as you pretend.

[MattR]

Hardly, because it is the precondition of the story. But if this story had begun with the war, then if would have been a deus ex, resolving a plot ("Stanley is a situation where there is no more hope for him") with something the reader could not expect (of course IF during the story before we got no explanation about this as a possibility).

The story begins with a battle and goes on for 5 pages, during which we learn how dire the situation is for stanley, before the spell is even mentioned. At that point, just reading the comic's pages, i don't think anyone would have been able to accurately guess that a magic scroll able to summon the perfect warlord existed until it was discussed. This clearly resolves Stanley's immediate problem but even you deny that its deus ex.

The first page of the strip gives an example of how a true example of deus ex actually helped the coalition beat stanley during one of the battles.

I just don't understand why people have such a hard time telling the difference between Deus ex and a plot twist that's supported by things that happened in the comic.

[MattR]

Its hard to keep pace with what you've actually said between deleted posts and the editing >_<

Maybe you haven't copied and pasted what the wiki says, but youve certainly repeated elements of it... albeit in an abbreviated form.

You - This kind of "cheap resources" are called "deus ex machina", what is Latin and means "a god from the machine". This is because a Greek author (Euripides) made exactly what I told you with the god Herakles and many other gods, and they used machines to hang an actor representing the god, down to the stage.

Cut from Wiki - A deus ex machina (IPA: [ˈdeɪʌs ɛks ˈmakʰɪna], literally "god from the machine").The Greek tragedian Euripides is often criticized for his frequent use of the deus ex machina. For example, in Euripides' play Alcestis, at the end Heracles shows up and seizes Alcestis from Death, restoring her to life and to Admetus. a mechane (crane) was used to lower actors playing a god or gods onto the stage. The machine referred to in the phrase could be either the crane employed in the task, the calque from the Greek "ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός" apó mēchanēs theós, (pronounced in Ancient Greek IPA: [aˈpo mɛːkʰaˈnɛːs tʰeˈos]), or a riser that brought a god up from a trap door.


My point is that explaining what deus ex is AFTER a link to a page entirely devoted to explaining deus ex is unnecessary.

[Trazoi]

I just don't understand why people have such a hard time telling the difference between Deus ex and a plot twist that's supported by things that happened in the comic.

Well, in the original meaning of Deus Ex Machina, a playright would have a god lowered down on a crane to solve a problem. Here, we've got giant floating arrows being lowered down by Archons to solve a problem. I can see some similarity.

I think my main distaste to the whole DDR thing is Ansom is essentially getting another boost from the Archons (again) rather than using his own abilities. Even though Charlie is his ally, t feels a bit like he's cheating somewhat. I don't think I'd mind so much if he was just crushing Parson with sheer weight of numbers, or a bunch of other tactics which involved his own units.

[MattR]

Also, Euripides' play Alcestis was a bad example of deus ex machina (in any way except as a 'god' literally being lowered using a machine and intervening) because near the beginning of the play Apollo tells Thanatos and the audience that Heracles will wrest Alcestis away from death. Heracles doesnt first appear at the end of the play, he makes numerous appearances throughout and his involvement is explained. When he saves her at the end it certainly isn't something unexpected.

[MoredanKantose]

Matt:

The story begins with a battle and goes on for 5 pages

Exactly, 5 pages. From my point of view, this is still the presentation of the story.

I am unsure about the name in English... the most classical of all storytellings schemas reads in Spanish "Planteamiento, nudo, desenlace", which I dare to translate with "Setting, knot, resolution" but I am really unsure about storytelling terms in English, you probably know the real names if you understand what I mean.

Page 5 belongs, IMHO, to "setting".

The first page of the strip gives an example of how a true example of deus ex actually helped the coalition beat stanley during one of the battles.

Disagree, again.

I just don't understand why people

Well, I do not understand why you do not see my points, so...

[MoredanKantose]

Maybe you haven't copied and pasted what the wiki says, but youve certainly repeated elements of it... albeit in an abbreviated form.

It may be, I have not read the wikipedia entry in detail.

My point is that explaining what deus ex is AFTER a link to a page entirely devoted to explaining deus ex is unnecessary.

My point is that (a) I gave my point of view, which probably has elements which are not present in the wikipedia (probably), (b) I gave an abbreviation which can be enough so that the reader does not need to read a whole wikipedia article and (c) that giving a link as an answer is sometimes not considered well-mannered.

And finally that (d) discussing about how appropriate was from my side to give an own explanation; is the kind of discussion which I will end up right now, and I will hope that you understand why.

[Fafnir13]

Deus ex machina? Please. It's just an AoE buff spell. Plenty of games out there use them. Why such a lengthy argument over it?

[MattR]

I'd have been happy to have ended that particular part of the discussion much sooner but you said:

'Or at the wikipedia, if it really repeats what I told there, as you pretend.'

i dislike people implying that i'm a liar and it was entirely reasonable for me to respond to that.

Are you seriously suggesting that it will still be deus ex machina even if it has no meaningful impact on the situation and ultimate resolution? That goes completely against what the modern interpretation of deus ex machina is.

Just because you couldnt see DDR making an appearance doesnt mean that other didnt guess it would and it doesnt automatically make it Deus ex.

[Fan]

Wasn't hit and run tactic pulled out of the blue? And exploding crap golem? Or the fact, that there was a convenient lake near Parson's Donut of Doom to hide wounded dwagons (that wasn't an issue, but was part of the plan)? Or Wanda's spell stash?
Seriously: we don't know the system and neither does Parson. We learn about most things on fly, when things just happen. Apart from that, archons have various Thinkamancy abilities - channeling Ansom's dance-fight abilities to his troops is not out of their reach.
If you are against the idea, that magic works between different hexes or zones: there is Lookamancy (definately long range magic), Thinkamancy itself (thinkagrams for example), those cylinder hats for transfering reports also work on long range and Vinnie got live-feed view from his bats. And those are just the things we could see in less then 150 pages. Do you really think, that we do know, how Erfworld works by now?

Umm, Wanda had thre spells from back in the dungeoun... It was even forshadowed due to the sheer amount of them that was shown during the Jillian Torture scene way back when. >.>
Exploding crap golem I believe is imbuing something with spell energy fro mthe shockmancy scroll, and the Lake was SELECTED... It didn't just happen to be there.. Lakes are a common feature in forests... otherwise they wouldn't be forests.... As trees NEED water. >.>

[Octavian]

I just registered to say that Panel 4 is possibly my favorite panel of any page yet.

*does a Thriller dance*
Sham-on, Ooh hoo!

[Sebastian Bux]

***sigh***

[BillyJimBoBob]

If I had to pick one reason why this strip irritated me so, it would be because it appears that a handful of Archons are more powerful than the entire coalition. Tremendous casters who can dance fight, appear to be interchangably Warlords and troops when the need arises, AND able to project bonuses across zones that no other unit can do? Why would Charlescomm even bother with allying with anyone when he could just waltz in after the Kilkenny fight and level anything and everything?

This is my issue as well. Charlescomm has sent enough Archons, requiring zero travel time by the way (it's unreasonable to claim that he might have had them on the way when he had to ask how many additional Archons above 14 IIRC he would need to take the garrison in a single turn) to take the garrison in a single turn. Based upon Parson's own magically enhanced battle prediction.

This sets him up as being "the decider", as he has many options: Help Parson withstand the RCC; help the RCC take GK; take GK himself. Yes, unit strengths have changed, but not on a permanent basis. All the uncroaked are temporary, so Charlie can simply wait for them to dust off before attacking if that's what he wants. Even the uncroaked Parson hopes to raise up on his next turn will again be temporary units. The additional scrolls are mostly expended already, and the Archon force level has not changed. And although Parson is mostly losing uncroaked in this fight it's possible he is taking some damage to his permanent units as well, since we see them in combat.

Adding to this, the Archons are just unreasonalbe units. Here is a list of their abilities seen to date:

Flight;
Instantaneous move/teleport or at the least an enormous movement rate;
Detect magic;
Dance fighting;
Dispell magic/provide additional saving throw via pep talk/"phone a friend";
Unlimited range communication;
Ranged powerful energy/magic blasts;
Provide dance fighting to units which can not dance fight;
Capture (via the net and Charlie's invitation to Parson to step outside for a minute) (this is probably an ability of most/all units, but no other unit has been shown with specialized equipment for capturing);
Probably all generic Warlord abilities;

I may have missed a few, but I'm sure the point is clear. Archons might not strictly speaking be an example of dem, but that's not relevent. They always have the ability needed for the moment, and that's close enough to make them an intolerable piece of this otherwise excellent story.

Some have said that we don't know if all the Archons are the same, and thaty maybe there are some who are more potent, are the few Warlords, and have expanded magical abilities. I say, who cares? The authors haven't bothered to explain this to us if it is not the case, and so by all evidence an Archon is an Archon is an Archon, just as all other units save perhaps Warlords and Casters seem to be identical to every other unit of that same type.

Unfortunately, since we don't know the mechanics of recruiting in Erfworld, we can't really do more than speculate. But certain war game rules tend to be universal.

Namely, advanced units cost more than grunts. The question is, costs what? Money isn't the only factor determining armies in Erfworld. If it was pure cash, no one would need to hire Charlie. Being able to meet Charlie's fees would also allow them to field casters of their own in addition to conventional troops. If cash is the only material resource in Erfworld, then I'd have to guess time is the other commodity making caster recruiting an issue.

Typically a more potent unit takes more time to 'pop', and costs more both to 'pop' and to maintain. Time is the the other factor here, unless the authors reveal more about how units are generated or about Archons in particular.

[MoredanKantose's] opinion that its 'deux ex' [...], is just that ..your OPINION, unsupported by elements of the comic. There's been enough hints throughout so that when it happened DDR might be surprising but not completely unexpected.

No, there has not. I agree with MoredanKantose here. It may be his opinion and my own as well, but it is one which is completely supported by the "elements" of the comic.

While this is not strictly a dem, it's still a complete reveal of a new Archon power with no hint at all that this was even possible. In fact, just the page before we were told that the RCC did not have many troops capable of dance fighting. Now on this page, they quite suddenly can, via the agency of the Archons who are not even a part of the same faction, who have no move left since it is not their turn, and who it has never been even slightly hinted at that they could lead normal troops in a dance fight.

Or perhaps you can point me at any hint in the comic, any slight clue or tiny bit of forshadowing that Archons could do this?

The story begins with a battle and goes on for 5 pages, during which we learn how dire the situation is for stanley, before the spell is even mentioned. At that point, just reading the comic's pages, i don't think anyone would have been able to accurately guess that a magic scroll able to summon the perfect warlord existed until it was discussed. This clearly resolves Stanley's immediate problem but even [MoredanKantose] deny that its deus ex.

The first page of the strip gives an example of how a true example of deus ex actually helped the coalition beat stanley during one of the battles.

I just don't understand why people have such a hard time telling the difference between Deus ex and a plot twist that's supported by things that happened in the comic.

The time spent establishing the situation which led to the summoning of Parson doesn't make that summoning a dem. Nor is the gem lost by a titan leading to additional units purchased to give an advantage at Warchalking a dem.

As to this plot twist being supported, here is where we differ. I'll ask again for you to cite this support, other than by pointing to the Archons and saying "See those Archons? They can pretty much do anything they want, or at least to pull out any ability they need, and that's been well established throughout the comic." You'd be right, but not for the right reasons.