OOTS #632 - The Discussion Thread

[Kish]

No. For the love of heaven, no. Celia's "initiative" just got Roy turned into a golem and captured, dragging things out. Had Celia not taken that "initiative", they would've made it to Cliffport and gotten Roy resurrected without any trouble.

Fact (or close enough): Had Celia not taken that initiative, they would have continued on the path to Cliffport.
Unfounded speculation: Continuing on the path to Cliffport would have led to them reaching Cliffport and getting Roy resurrected with no trouble.

[Lord Seth]

Fact (or close enough): Had Celia not taken that initiative, they would have continued on the path to Cliffport.
Unfounded speculation: Continuing on the path to Cliffport would have led to them reaching Cliffport and getting Roy resurrected with no trouble.

I can't imagine how there could have been more trouble than they got into with Greysky City.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I personally don't have any hatred towards Therkla. Quite the contrary, I was actually liking her character and was interested to see where her character arc was headed, which is why it was all the more annoying that she died, leaving me wondering why we spent so much time on a character who in the end really didn't amount to anything.

Haley didn't mention it because it's a secret, first off; she had reasons for keeping it a secret, too. But the thing is, she said, and I quote: "It's a dangerous place where people get killed for having gold in their pockets." Why should she need to say more than that? It's perfectly reasonable to blame Celia for the whole thing.

Ah misunderstood with Therkla, it's more death hate. Cool.

As with Haley, by no means am I defending Celia. However, Just because something is a secret, and you have reasons, doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep it. I can understand that, hey, she's LG, she won't approve of running from the guild, but if you don't trust her with the small tidbit of "The clerics won't raise roy." Then you shouldn't trust her period. And since you know at that point that A) she is willful B) Naive and C) her sole motive at this point is to raise roy Haley should have done a better job of either securing roy or explaining to Celia.

This is not to say the Celia is to blame for all she does. She acted as she did and should shoulder the blame. But Haley didn't stop it, and is smart enough to have seen this coming. As Roy was made responsible for Belkar's actions, so to should Haley for Celia's.

Quick Edit: Maybe it's language we disagree with. I think Celia should be blamed, but that Haley is ultimately responsible, as a parent is with a child. That ate lead paint under the power lines....

[Warren Dew]

I can't imagine how there could have been more trouble than they got into with Greysky City.

I can tell you one thing that would have happened differently: Belkar would not have gotten the mark of justice removed. It's very doubtful that anyone in Cliffport knows the passphrase.

Now, you might be among those who would just as soon Belkar continued languishing under the mark - I am - but the Belkar fans owe Celia big time.

[Kish]

I can't imagine how there could have been more trouble than they got into with Greysky City.

Any such imagination would still be unfounded speculation, though I'm sure something would have gotten in their way. The important thing is not to assert such speculation as fact, either to bury Celia or to praise her. I will, however, note that in the really unlikely event that stealing the golem from Grubwiggler and resurrecting Roy goes without a hitch from here, Roy will be resurrected a little over a week (comic-time) after Celia went into Greysky City. Would they even have reached Cliffport by that time?

[Xerrik]

As to the argument of how annoyed people are about not sticking with the "Resurrect Roy" story, I'm glad that we're sticking with Vaarsuvius. V is (i think) my favorite character, but I stopped liking V as much when V decided to blame itself for its failures and the death/loss of Roy/Azure City. I'm hoping that this will end V's non-trancing state and get V back to the way I like it.

[kusje]

Now, you might be among those who would just as soon Belkar continued languishing under the mark - I am - but the Belkar fans owe Celia big time.

I don't think Celia is owed anything other than a stab to the head. Do not mistake lucky events for prescience. She did not know such a thing would happen, did not even hope for it or actively work towards it and should not be given any credit.

For example, someone steals my passport just before I board my flight and I miss it. The flight crashes and everyone on it dies. I might be thankful that he stole my passport but I certainly won't thank him for stealing it.

[Xerrik]

Do not lucky events for prescience. She did not know such a thing would happen, did not even hope for it or actively work towards it and should not be given any credit.

I agree with this view. People should not be rewarded for dumb luck in the face of stupidity, no matter how events turn out.

[The Bookworm]

After reading this strip, I wondered whether the IFCC fiends would give V a 3.0 scroll of Teleport. After all, in 3.0 it wasn't of a barred domain (see 340: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html ). And we know 3.0 spells can sometimes be found (Z'ditri's 3.0 Fly) ...

[Red XIV]

I can't imagine how there could have been more trouble than they got into with Greysky City.

It would've taken more time and resulted in them having less money, for one thing. Haley didn't have anywhere near enough gold to fund a Resurrection before looting Grubwiggler's castle, remember?

[factotum]

Quite the contrary, I was actually liking her character and was interested to see where her character arc was headed, which is why it was all the more annoying that she died, leaving me wondering why we spent so much time on a character who in the end really didn't amount to anything.

There isn't much point in killing off a character you don't care about, is there? You just end up with a bunch of Star Trek redshirts that way. I suspect we spent so much time on Therkla so that her death would be more meaningful than Mook #317, and besides, that entire plot arc led indirectly to the one we're in the middle of right now, which may have further unforeseen consequences on the main plot...in fact, it's going to HAVE to have such consequences if V does attain ultimate arcane power right now!

[The Bookworm]

A Little Irony About Therkla: In Roy's Death Strip, he says "Delay Poison? Shilleagh Oil? Why do I even have these?" Delay Poison would've been useful for Therkla...

[David Argall]

besides, that entire plot arc led indirectly to the one we're in the middle of right now, which may have further unforeseen consequences on the main plot.

No, the Therkla-Kubota diversion is purely that. With minor adjustments, one could jump from 505 to 599 and V's story reads reasonably smoothly. There may yet be serious complications, but these are at the whim of the writer and do not naturally flow out of the story.

Therkla-Kubota must be judged on its own merits or lack of same. It is simply an addition to the plot, not a part of it.

[Taekwondodo]

Word. What makes all those people say that we're somehow away from the main plot?

True there isn't really a main plot at the moment and I don't think there has been one for some time.