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Thread: Weighty Musings

  1. - Top - End - #121
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Weighty Musings

    Someone said something about 'science' and 'asthetics'...

    Enjoy some wikipedia links, I'm going to bed and may spend time looking up 'more accurate' links later, but these pretty much agree with everything I've learned.

    Ladies, its all in the hips... and the waist.

    Everything else, its in the machine code of the universe.

    Oh, and its good to have your right look like your left too.

    That last link is weaksauce, could use more animal studies, sadly the stalk-eyed fly article doesn't mention that females prefer symmetrical males to asymmetrical ones, even if the latter have longer eyestalks. Guess I'll go journal diving tomorrow.
    Last edited by Asbestos; 2009-02-28 at 03:54 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Fiery Diamond's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weighty Musings

    Well, this has been interesting.

    Shall I give my 2cp?

    Ideals are something we should attempt to achieve. Ideals, by their very nature, are impossible to actually achieve. Therefore, stating that an ideal is impossible to achieve does not mean that supporting and encouraging that ideal is foolhardy and somehow wrong.

    However...

    The elimination of the word beautiful (or the concept) is not something which I consider an ideal. Rather, we should recognize that "physical beauty" is something that is subjective, rather than objective. Additionally, we should strive to not draw conclusions about people based on what we think of how "physically attractive" they are. Rather, how beautiful a human is should be thought of as rather irrelevant to anything else. We should strive to appreciate our fellow humans based on things such as quality of character instead. Beauty isn't something that should be ignored, but rather something that isn't thought to be particularly relevant.

    Did that make sense?
    Last edited by Fiery Diamond; 2009-02-28 at 06:02 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Weighty Musings

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsotha-lanti View Post
    Yeah, we see this all over D&D. I mean, look at Raistlin-- oh wait. Well, Flint-- er.

    Never mind that a minority of RPGs (even fantasy RPGs) actually function around the D&D-style party. That argument doesn't even begin to address any other setup.
    So what are the stats for Raistlin again? If we're going to do this mechanically, we're in for some fun. If we're going to do this nitpicking, we're still in for some fun. My point was that magic allows for the chance to be overweight, not that it would result in it. Most battle ready medieval fantasy characters that actually engage in melee are generally fairly fit. This ranges from Tolkien to A Song of Ice and Fire to most of the genre. I'm not saying it does mean that a magic user will be unfit compared to a knight, but that one role demands a minimal amount of physical prowess and one does not. A wizard could practice fencing, sword fighting, or olympic weight lifting as a hobby if he wanted to. If you want to destroy stereotypes, play a Dolph Lundgren wizard - highly intelligent and built like a monster. It does happen and I'm not saying it does not. It's just highly unlikely that a combat-ready individual is going to be obese. The closest character I can remember to that in a fantasy novel is Fat Belwas(Belbas? Not sure) from A Song Of Ice And Fire.

    And he was more like a sumo than actually obese.

    I'm not sure where you got 'party mechanics' from, in regards to my post, but I'm not going after your straw man. I was referring to D&D mechanics in particular because that is the most common used in the forum, but most that I have encountered do not really have a fat gain/loss system in place. Maybe FATAL does. Or some others with a laundry list of stats to monitor.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomsy View Post
    So what are the stats for Raistlin again? If we're going to do this mechanically, we're in for some fun. If we're going to do this nitpicking, we're still in for some fun. My point was that magic allows for the chance to be overweight, not that it would result in it. Most battle ready medieval fantasy characters that actually engage in melee are generally fairly fit. This ranges from Tolkien to A Song of Ice and Fire to most of the genre. I'm not saying it does mean that a magic user will be unfit compared to a knight, but that one role demands a minimal amount of physical prowess and one does not. A wizard could practice fencing, sword fighting, or olympic weight lifting as a hobby if he wanted to. If you want to destroy stereotypes, play a Dolph Lundgren wizard - highly intelligent and built like a monster. It does happen and I'm not saying it does not. It's just highly unlikely that a combat-ready individual is going to be obese. The closest character I can remember to that in a fantasy novel is Fat Belwas(Belbas? Not sure) from A Song Of Ice And Fire.

    And he was more like a sumo than actually obese.
    And this is most definately true. That's why I wrote the background with a caster in mind and made obesity a specific item in the pact. She can't lose weight while she still has the pact.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    DruidGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zousha Omenohu View Post
    And this is most definately true. That's why I wrote the background with a caster in mind and made obesity a specific item in the pact. She can't lose weight while she still has the pact.
    If you intend to have this as one of the conditions, you may want to consider a sort of upper limit on her weight for practicality's sake. If she becomes, ah, "rooted to the spot," shall we say, she becomes fairly useless to... Q, since, well... she has to stay put. Alternatively, if that doesn't become an issue for some reason, her sheer bulk almost definitely would be one.

    Just something to keep in mind.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    Yes, I know. Even an FA like me finds immobility not only impractical but disgusting. And as for sheer bulk...thaaaaaaaat's something I still haven't figured out how to implement.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    How would the stats for 4e deal with obesity anyway? I know that, based on 3e's Deformity (Obese) feat in the Book of Vile Darkness it'd likely have something to do with a high CON (which suits an Infernalock just fine) and a low DEX (not sure how much infernalocks need this).
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zousha Omenohu View Post
    How would the stats for 4e deal with obesity anyway? I know that, based on 3e's Deformity (Obese) feat in the Book of Vile Darkness it'd likely have something to do with a high CON (which suits an Infernalock just fine) and a low DEX (not sure how much infernalocks need this).
    Don't need Dex for anything other than skills and initiative, their Int should be decent enough to give them an ok AC.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    Especially since she's a tiefling, and they get an INT boost. Now all I need is to get a subscription to D&D Insider to see just what the Prince(ss) of Hell Epic Destiny is all about.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    dyslexicfaser's Avatar

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    I do recall reading once that large muscles are a drawback for a swordfighter. Ideally, you'd want supple muscles; a 'wall of muscle' type character like you see in many fantasy illustrations, Conan for example, might serve well as a brawler, but that's about it.

    If anyone knows more on the subject, I'd be happy to be either vindicated or proven wrong.

    I believe I'd have to side with FeverFox on the subject of objectification. It's not ideal, but even if you consciously will yourself not to be effected, even if you just note a person's level of subjective, physical attractiveness and then try and move on, a person's first impression is at the physical level. Tsotha-lanti's position is lovely, but... it's a position that I aspire to, but have never managed.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Lizardfolk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dyslexicfaser View Post
    I do recall reading once that large muscles are a drawback for a swordfighter. Ideally, you'd want supple muscles; a 'wall of muscle' type character like you see in many fantasy illustrations, Conan for example, might serve well as a brawler, but that's about it.

    If anyone knows more on the subject, I'd be happy to be either vindicated or proven wrong.

    I believe I'd have to side with FeverFox on the subject of objectification. It's not ideal, but even if you consciously will yourself not to be effected, even if you just note a person's level of subjective, physical attractiveness and then try and move on, a person's first impression is at the physical level. Tsotha-lanti's position is lovely, but... it's a position that I aspire to, but have never managed.

    It does not take that much force to cut someone with a sharp object. Something more like a dancer is more appropriate to fencing and such. When it comes to armored melees, a heavier but not tankish build might help, depending on your weapon choice. Lances, spears, axes, greatswords, and other weapons are basically applying the force across a very small cutting area to sheer through armor, skin, and muscle. Ideally, with bladed weapons, you actually don't want to hit the bone - as was mentioned in Snow Crash, if you get your sword stuck in someones brainpan or thighbone mid battle, chances are his friend is going to come running up to you with that look in his eye and a weapon in hand while you're busy trying to pull your own out. Ideally, you want to hit with enough force to cripple or kill but not cut so deep you get tangled up.

    With armored enemies, chainmail on up, you deal with armor that can stop your blows and prevent the cutting edge. Bigger weapons deal with this by applying more force and weight behind a swing to basically crush ribs or flat armor segments. In that case, more muscular power might be more effective, along with its general usage in things like mauls, battle hammers, or just hitting someone with a roofing hammer. Crushing weapons and all.

  12. - Top - End - #132
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Weighty Musings

    Here, Here. I enjoy variation as well, and has created several kinds of characters, including shorty fighters, overweight wizards, and warrior women that wear actual armor.

    Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    I wasn't really planning on having my warlock get into melee combat. She'd likely prefer hanging back and blasting foes with fire and stuff. Less effort for her and safer too.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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