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    Default New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Through out the land in the courts of royalty and nobility a certain type of magic is needed. Every royal court, and many of the more well off noble courts, employs spell casters both for protection from other magics, and to gather information. The proper job title veries from court to court, but the most common term is court mage. A court mage is usually one of the kings top advisers, using his Divinations to provide timely information. He is also Adept at using Abjuration to protect his lord and his keep. Good court mages tend to be kindly protectors and advisors, whereas evil court mages have a tendancy to be working to set themselves up as the power behind the thrown(if they aren't already!). Court mage adventurers tend to be those that have tired of the court, and want to give it up (either pemanently or temporarily), have been forced to do so.

    Court Mage
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Armored Mage|5|3

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    ||6|4

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Improved protection|6|5

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Arcane Awareness|6|6|3

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    ||6|6|4

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Reactive Counterspell, Expanded Knowledge|6|6|5|3

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    ||6|6|6|4

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Adept dispelling 2/day|6|6|6|5|3

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    ||6|6|6|6|4

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Expanded Knowledge|6|6|6|6|5|3

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    ||6|6|6|6|6|4

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Adept dispelling 3/day|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Expanded Knowledge|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +x9
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Adept Dispelling 4/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Expanded Knowledge|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    19th|
    +9/9+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Faultess Perception, adept dispelling 6/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6[/table]
    Hit die: d6
    Skills: Diplomacy, Craft(any), concentration, Knowledge(any), sense motive, Spot, Spell Craft, UMD
    Skill points: 4+int mod, x4 @ first lvl.
    Proficiencies: Light armor, simple weapons, any one martial weapon.

    Class Features
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    Spell casting - int based spont cast any spell on their list.

    Armored Mage - You may wear light armor with out incurring the risk of arcane spell failure.

    Improved Protection - Once per encounter, when you cast a courtmage spell on yourself or an ally that increases your/their AC, you may give yourself or that ally an additional untyped bonus to AC equal to 1 + 1/3 class level(rounded down). This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier + the spell's level.

    Arcane Awarness - You may cast detect magic @ will

    Adept Dispelling - A number of times per day equal 1/4 of your class lvl, when you cast Dispel magic, or any other dispelling effect, you may add you int modifier to your caster lvl check.

    Reactive counterspell - You Gain reactive counterspell as a bonus feat (no need to meet the prereqs).

    Expanded Knowledge - Add an Divination spell, of a level you can cast, from the wizard/sorc list to you list of spell known.

    Faultess Perception - You permanently gain the effects of True Seeing.


    Spell list
    Spoiler
    Show

    0: Resistance, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, arcane mark, message, mage hand, Read Magic.
    1: Alarm, Endure Elements, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Shield, Mage Armor, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, True Strike, Entropic Shield, remove fear, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Sanctuary, Hold Portal.
    2: Arcane Lock, Obscure Object, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, See Invisibility,Find Traps, status, Shield Other.
    3: Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Nondetection, Protection from Energy, Sepia Snake Sigil, Arcane Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Tongues, Glyph of Warding, Remove Curse, Tiny Hut, Wind Wall
    4: Dimensional Anchor, Fire Trap, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Arcane Eye, Detect Scrying, Locate Creature , Scrying, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice , Illusory Wall, Discern Lies, Divination, Freedom of Movement.
    5: Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Mage’s Private Sanctum, Wall of Stone, Contact Other Plane, Prying Eyes, Telepathic Bond, Symbol of Sleep, Interposing Hand, Wall of Force, Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Spell Resistance.
    6: Antimagic Field, Greater Dispel Magic, Globe of Invulnerability, Guards and Wards, Repulsion, Analyze Dweomer, Legend Lore, True Seeing, Contingency, Symbol of Fear, Word of recall, Greater Glyph of Warding.
    7: Banishment, Sequester, Spell Turning, Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Scrying, Vision, Symbol of Stunning, Forcecage, Symbol of Weakness.
    8: Dimensional Lock, Mind Blank, Prismatic Wall, Protection from Spells, Discern Location, Moment of Prescience, Greater Prying Eyes, Symbol of Insanity, Screen, Symbol of Death, Limited Wish.
    9: Freedom, Imprisonment, Mage’s Disjunction, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight

    Designer's Notes
    Spoiler
    Show

    I got the Idea from Warmage/Dread Necromancer/Beguiler, these classes are all full casters, but had a very tight focus, making them good, but not as good as normal wizard or sorc, and since they never printed ones to take advantage of Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, and Transmutation, I thought that I would homebrew the rest. This is the first fruit. Div and Abj being to two "weaker" of the 4 got combined, Conj and trans will get a class to themselves.

    This Class is based off the concept of the wizard as the king's adviser and protector from magical threat. A bit more abjuration than divination focus, making it a fairly defensive class. Ultimately his job in a party is information and Control. The Spell list contains wall spells, and trap spells, as those things seem mechanically appropriate, and serve to get the whole class off the ground. Any thoughts, advice, or constructive criticism would be appreciated, especially regarding balance, I'm looking to fall between dread necro and beguiler in terms of power, and I can never tell with my own work how close I am to the mark.
    Last edited by Darth Stabber; 2014-01-29 at 03:22 AM. Reason: Fixes
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    "Detect Magic @ will" is awkwardly (yet certainly straightforwardly) named. I suggest renaming it to something else (e.g. Arcane Sentinel, Arcane Sight, Arcane Awareness or the like).

    I am personally not very fond of warrior wizards in general, so instead of the Armored Caster and Courtly Dueling features you could give the class Mage Armor at will.

    Any reason why Hold Portal is not on the spell list? To me this rarely used spell seems very appropriate for a Court Mage whose main job is to protect Lord and throne room.
    Last edited by Tingel; 2009-02-26 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Armored Mage is a class ability shared by the 3 classes that inspired this class. It is supposedly representative of the fact that given their tight focus they may make the gestures needed to perform their spell without their armor interfering. Light armor and a weapon proficiency do not a Gish make, and while the mage armor @ will is certainly an attractive option, I would need a low level Offensive ability, because currently the class seems to have the ability to true strike for 1d4 damage, without it. At least with it could be swing a better weapon around until the other features add up to something offensive.

    And hold portal was not on the list, because I forgot about it. I've never cast it, with any character i've played ever. But I'll add it, if for no other reason than completism.

    @ any the big problem is that I need a low level offensive ability, if it stayed useful throughout, so much the better but until you get 3rd lvl spell, you have no damaging spells at all. I could add a damage spell or two, but that would really be out of fluff for the class. I realize that the current solution is not that good, but it's better than nothing for the low level of this class, because as it sits, it's doesn't hit resonably playable unit lvl 6.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Added a spell to give them an good enough early game to justify removing the stupid weapon ability.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Don't think anyone would ever play a straight Wizard or Sorcerer again.

    Am I missing a compromise or downside?


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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurd View Post
    Don't think anyone would ever play a straight Wizard or Sorcerer again.

    Am I missing a compromise or downside?


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    He may have taken a sorcerer, given it the ability to cast any spell on its list spontaneously (cough cough beholder mage-style), made it arcane so that you can use Arcane Disciple, upgraded the BAB, upgraded the HD and given it class features, but there is one absolutely tremendous downside that you seem to have overlooked. It doesn't have a familiar.
    Last edited by FlamingKobold; 2010-05-21 at 09:10 PM.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Don't forget it also can't specialize, neither can sorcerors but thats besides the point.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Truly, a sacrifice of power for flavor.

    The first thing that came to mind was that Armored Mage should specify that it applies only to spells gained from this class. But seeing how it's by far superior to both the wizard and the sorcerer, that's not relevant.

    One way to balance it might be to make the spell list much, much narrower. Just a handful of abjurations and divinations, for instance.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Have you considered giving it full BaB and all the TWF feats?
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Yeah, this class is overpowered. If you don't get rid of just about every spell, it'll be overpowered. Send BAB to poor, and DRASTICALLY lessen spells per day if you like the list.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    I don't see any reason you couldn't make them prepared casters...
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    I think it needs a familiar ! :)


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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    I recommend people read the beguiler and dread necromancer before commenting.

    Feedback would be: it has a painful lack of offense aside from UMD (which has a distinct tendency to be underwhelming if underused and overwhelming if not), and lacks something to actually do with that medium BAB. Possible solutions involve adding a few status effect spells that'd make it able to win by turtling, or stuff like Arcane Strike within the class progression, which might give reasons to use that BAB. Lastly, for an abjuration/divination court mage, it lacks zone of truth. :D

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Um, the dread necro is my facourite arcane class so I know about it but this is OP compared to it.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fail View Post
    I recommend people read the beguiler and dread necromancer before commenting.
    I'm pretty sure all of us have. And this is exponentially more powerful.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    I'm pretty sure all of us have. And this is exponentially more powerful.
    Maybe I'm overdosed and didn't see something obvious, but ... what does it have that's equal to a personal, infinitely replaceable, army (dread necromancer) or skill and spell lists that are pretty much "all of the things that win D&D" (beguiler)? I've read it multiple times by now and I can tell you that d6 HD and medium BAB (that it doesn't even have an use for ATM) it isn't; I see it does have UMD, but it only goes part of the distance towards the beguiler - no stealth, and native spell list not utterly full of win.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    It has wish. That's all it ever needs. However, it also has Time Stop. Basically, any class will be overpowered with these, and this class can do it better than a straight wizard.
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    It has wish. That's all it ever needs. However, it also has Time Stop. Basically, any class will be overpowered with these, and this class can do it better than a straight wizard.
    *facedesks*

    Missed wish. Yeah, it just shouldn't exist.

    As for time stop: it's not really as good as it sounds, because pretty much the only thing it can do's putting up a bunch of walls (no teleporting, for example); good, but not as full of win as a wizard or beguiler would do (not to mention: the beguiler does have time stop).

    And, in any case, arguing from the level 9 spells isn't exactly useful: first because levels lower than 18 exist, second because the other classes being used for comparison are also totally crazy by 18, third because any or all of them can be fixed by the removal of a literal handful of spells. That in no way disqualifies most of the class' rules.
    Last edited by Fail; 2010-05-22 at 04:38 PM.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fail View Post
    what does it have that's equal to a personal, infinitely replaceable, army (dread necromancer) or skill and spell lists that are pretty much "all of the things that win D&D" (beguiler)?
    Look at its spell list. Even if you ignore wish, there still some pretty bad stuff. A lost of the things this thing has can make it into a pretty decent batman. It has SoDs, SoSs, SoLs, utility and battlefield control. Sure, it can't summon, but it can take arcane disciple or use any number of ways to add more spells to your list, which it automatically knows. The only reason a cleric/wizard is balanced (relative term) is because it has to prepare a finite number of spells. Also the rhetoric of the spellcasting section makes this worse. "int based spont cast any spell on their list" is what it says. If you dip cleric/wizard/archivist/whatever, you gain all those spells on your spell list. This class never specifies that it is limited to one specific list. thus a Court Mage 1/Wizard 19 is made of win. This should be fixed, as it is probably a typo, but RAW it works.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    The only reason a cleric/wizard is balanced (relative term) is because it has to prepare a finite number of spells.
    Note that the balance point requested is between beguiler and dread necromancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    Look at its spell list. Even if you ignore wish, there still some pretty bad stuff. A lost of the things this thing has can make it into a pretty decent batman. It has SoDs, SoSs, SoLs, utility and battlefield control.
    I never said it wasn't good. I said it wasn't better than its counterparts, which are made of greater win.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    Sure, it can't summon, but it can take arcane disciple or use any number of ways to add more spells to your list, which it automatically knows.
    So can the 2 comparison classes. And should either you or the author find it a problem, it can be fixed on the feat side, as the spellcasting mechanic works (better than pretty much any other, even).

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    Also the rhetoric of the spellcasting section makes this worse. "int based spont cast any spell on their list" is what it says. If you dip cleric/wizard/archivist/whatever, you gain all those spells on your spell list. This class never specifies that it is limited to one specific list, thus a Court Mage 1/Wizard 19 is made of win.
    Actually, it does. Do agree it'd ideally be clearer.
    Last edited by Fail; 2010-05-22 at 07:01 PM.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fail View Post
    <snip>
    I think I may have not delivered my post effectively. Obviously an optimized wizard can beat, well, anything, except for the most broken things. But at a reasonable level of power per class, this class is drastically out of line for the desired balance. I still contend that this class's list is much more powerful than that of the comparison classes. It can become a batman-like entity, while the others without appropriate cheese. Battlefield control is the most important part of the party, and that's what this one does.

    As for the singular thing: I know what singular means (I hope). The thing is that it's open to interpretation to determine what the singular is referring to. The class or the player. Obviously, this is not right, and is easily and succinctly fixed by adding substituting "the Court Mage's" for "their".

    Edit I think you should change around the class features a bit. Every dead level is on a level you don't get a new level of spells, while every time you get a new spell level you also get a class feature.
    Last edited by FlamingKobold; 2010-05-22 at 07:28 PM.

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    It might be a bit of a bad idea where that last expanded knowledge is (maw of chaos).

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    As for the singular thing: I know what singular means (I hope). The thing is that it's open to interpretation to determine what the singular is referring to. The class or the player. Obviously, this is not right, and is easily and succinctly fixed by adding substituting "the Court Mage's" for "their".
    It's not open: someone multiclassed has 2 spell lists; there's no "character" (much less "player" :P) spell list.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKobold View Post
    Edit I think you should change around the class features a bit. Every dead level is on a level you don't get a new level of spells, while every time you get a new spell level you also get a class feature.
    ... true. :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell lists
    1st Level: charm person, color spray, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, expeditious retreat, hypnotism, mage armor, obscuring mist, rouse*, silent image, sleep, undetectable alignment, whelm*.
    1: Alarm, Endure Elements, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Shield, Mage Armor, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, True Strike, Entropic Shield, remove fear, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Sanctuary, Hold Portal.

    2nd Level: blinding color surge*, blur, daze monster, detect thoughts, fog cloud, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, knock, minor image, mirror image, misdirection, see invisibility, silence, spider climb, stay the hand*, touch of idiocy, vertigo*, whelming burst*.
    2: Arcane Lock, Obscure Object, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, See Invisibility,Find Traps, status, Shield Other.

    3rd Level: arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, crown of veils*, deep slumber, dispel magic, displacement, glibness, halt*, haste, hesitate*, hold person, inevitable defeat*, invisibility sphere, legion of sentinels*, major image, nondetection, slow, suggestion, vertigo field*, zone of silence.
    3: Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Nondetection, Protection from Energy, Sepia Snake Sigil, Arcane Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Tongues, Glyph of Warding, Remove Curse, Tiny Hut, Wind Wall

    4th Level: charm monster, confusion, crushing despair, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, greater mirror image*, locate creature, mass whelm*, phantom battle*, rainbow pattern, solid fog.
    4: Dimensional Anchor, Fire Trap, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Arcane Eye, Detect Scrying, Locate Creature , Scrying, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice , Illusory Wall, Discern Lies, Divination, Freedom of Movement.

    5th Level: break enchantment, dominate person, feeblemind, friend to foe*, hold monster, incite riot*, mind fog, Rary’s telepathic bond, seeming, sending, swift etherealness*.
    5: Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Mage’s Private Sanctum, Wall of Stone, Contact Other Plane, Prying Eyes, Telepathic Bond, Symbol of Sleep, Interposing Hand, Wall of Force, Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Spell Resistance.

    6th Level: greater dispel magic, mass suggestion, mislead, overwhelm*, repulsion, shadow walk, true seeing, veil.
    6: Antimagic Field, Greater Dispel Magic, Globe of Invulnerability, Guards and Wards, Repulsion, Analyze Dweomer, Legend Lore, True Seeing, Contingency, Symbol of Fear, Word of recall, Greater Glyph of Warding.

    7th Level: ethereal jaunt, greater arcane sight, mass hold person, mass invisibility, phase door, power word blind, project image, spell turning.
    7: Banishment, Sequester, Spell Turning, Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Scrying, Vision, Symbol of Stunning, Forcecage, Symbol of Weakness, Limited Wish.

    8th Level: demand, discern location, mind blank, moment of prescience, power word stun, scintillating pattern, screen.
    8: Dimensional Lock, Mind Blank, Prismatic Wall, Protection from Spells, Discern Location, Moment of Prescience, Greater Prying Eyes, Symbol of Insanity, Screen, Symbol of Death.

    9th Level: dominate monster, etherealness, foresight, mass hold monster, power word kill, time stop.
    9: Freedom, Imprisonment, Mage’s Disjunction, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight, Time Stop, Wish.
    I'd say that at levels other than 4, 6, and 8 (where they seem to be about equal), the beguiler's spell list is much better if you disregard the wishes, and the wishes at 7 and 9 make it ... probably better, but not by that significant of a difference, as the beguiler's list at those levels' still extremely awesome (in fact, the beguiler is too full of win; I'm not saying the court mage should be its equal, only that it should likely be a bit better, and that it certainly doesn't merit lightning warrior references).
    Last edited by Fail; 2010-05-23 at 10:10 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    It has all the spells a sorcerer would likely pick anyway, plus class features and some other stuff.

    What am I missing?
    Zenithbold-Bard by Lord Raziere | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    It has all the spells a sorcerer would likely pick anyway, plus class features and some other stuff.

    What am I missing?
    Holds, dominates, and (most) illusions, for one. All of which can be found ... elsewhere (hint: check my quote). :P

    Besides, having a spell list a sorcerer might love to have and some class features only makes you better than the sorcerer. Like, say, the beguiler and dread necromancer. :D

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Since when are beguiler and DN better than a sorcerer? THey're around T3, sorcerer is definitely a T2.

    Kobold-Bard: No familiar

    Edit: @^ what's the lightning warrior? I'm genuinely concerned that it has no familiar... /sarcasm
    Last edited by FlamingKobold; 2010-05-23 at 11:12 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New Base Class: Court Mage [3.5 PEACH]

    Reduced to 1/2 BAB, removed wish and timestop, moved limited wish up a level, got rid of the free thesis, free mind blank, and restricted expanded knowledge to Div only.

    Am I more in line now or still out in left field.
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