Finally the four words! (spoiler)

[pendell]

In strip 634, named "The wrong reasons" just to drive the point home.

V has finally said the right 4 words -- "I ... I must succeed." to the right individual (zirself) for all the wrong reasons (unwilling to admit weakness).

Which leads us back to SOD

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Xykon tells us that real evil is about how far you're willing to go before admitting error.

A constant theme in the comic, I think.

At last, speculation is over and now we all know. So .. who came closest?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[tcrudisi]

I'll admit to not being anywhere close with my guess. However, I am overjoyed that I won't have to read anyone (seriously) saying that "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." were the four words. Can I get an allejuliah? ALLEJULIAH!

[Porthos]

However, I am overjoyed that I won't have to read anyone (seriously) saying that "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." were the four words.

You have much more faith in the posters of this board than I do.
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I kid, I kid.

Mostly.

[Ghastly Epigram]

I had not thought about the connection to SOD - good call, I like it.

(Somewhat off-topic note regarding SOD):

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Xykon's line is ironic considering that is exactly what Redcloak is doing, as Right-Eye points out - by his own reasoning, Redcloak is more evil than he will ever be.

I also thought it was interesting that the right being was in fact himself. I am not sure what I was expecting, but not that (Though using stuttering to make four words is a little mean ).

I do not think the speculating will die down just yet though - I have seen a few people contest whether they are the four words for certain reasons, and some who still stand by "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." It does seem fairly certain though, especially given the name of the comic.

One thing is for sure, this has been an interesting arc. I eagerly wait where the comic will take us next.

[Cúchulainn]

Darn, I wanted to see more of Aarindarius, awesome wizard is awesome. Ah well at least it wraps up one of of the great mysteries of the Playground...

...Is it too much to ask for the splice to show V's gender?

[dish]

The trouble as far as I see it is, "I...I must succeed," contains three words, one of which is repeated. It is not clear-cut and unambiguous, and I'm sure Rich is aware of that being a fantastic word-smith and all.

[magic9mushroom]

The trouble as far as I see it is, "I...I must succeed," contains three words, one of which is repeated. It is not clear-cut and unambiguous, and I'm sure Rich is aware of that being a fantastic word-smith and all.

The comic name, however, is. And all of the elements click into place like clockwork.

Right four words "I... I must succeed."

Right being: Herself.

Right time: One second before the Time Stop ends (this is the real clincher).

Wrong Reasons: for self-satisfaction, not for saving her family after all.

[Haruki-kun]

Well, there is always the chance that V will say the four words in the beginning of the next comic, you know? If these 4 don't count. If these 4 do count, then.... well, point is void.

[Porthos]

The trouble as far as I see it is, "I...I must succeed," contains three words, one of which is repeated. It is not clear-cut and unambiguous, and I'm sure Rich is aware of that being a fantastic word-smith and all.

Try that logic with a sending spell and see how far you get.

The Oracle said "four words to the right being". Nothing in that about different words, not even by implication.

Really, I can't see how it can't be more cut and dried than it already is.

Mind you, I can see how people can be dissatisfied with these being the four words, and therefore looking for other alternatives. But when you have a strip that says, "The Wrong Reasons" one better come up with a darn good reason why the four words weren't actually in this strip.

[Flickerdart]

Except that this isn't real ultimate arcane power. It's fake ultimate arcane power. It's not even permanent, it's temporary fake ultimate arcane power.

I do like the "no divine spells" clause: it's not ultimate divine power for a reason, and it also means V can't pop over to Haley and summon up a new Roy. Although I'm sure he could summon up some extra Roys in a pinch and keep them around just in case. In fact, clones of all the OotS members would be awesome. And the Nale finds them all and builds himself the perfect Linear Guild....but I digress.

[baf]

The thing that makes me doubt here is that the Oracle's prophecy made it sound like the four words would be the cause of V gaining ultimate arcane power, and that's not the case here. V isn't gaining power by means of saying "I... I must succeed", but merely while saying it.

The strip title is certainly intended to make us think this is the moment, but it wouldn't be the first time that Rich has played games with forumite expectations.

[The Unlucky One]

Except that this isn't real ultimate arcane power. It's fake ultimate arcane power. It's not even permanent, it's temporary fake ultimate arcane power.

I do like the "no divine spells" clause: it's not ultimate divine power for a reason, and it also means V can't pop over to Haley and summon up a new Roy. Although I'm sure he could summon up some extra Roys in a pinch and keep them around just in case. In fact, clones of all the OotS members would be awesome. And the Nale finds them all and builds himself the perfect Linear Guild....but I digress.

Well, the oracle was only asked when V will get ultimate arcane power and she will get it, even if it's just for a couple of hours. We know the oracle like to twist his prophecies when he can.

@ Baf: I consider the words as the cause of gaining ultimate power, because if these words weren't pronounced, V wouldn't have touched the orb and gained ultimate power.

[Gilthans]

If anybody theorizes that the four words from V's prophecy are 'I... I must succeed' I will arrange for a hitman to publicly execute him.

[LostOne]

You may just need an army. The entire forum has theorized such.

[Gabenbringer]

Ok, because you obviously WANT that reply:

Could it be that "I... I must succeed." are the four words the oracle spoke about?

Hope your happy now.

[Cúchulainn]

Anyone who doesn't think those are the 4 words and make threads stating as much I will strangle with my own two hands.

[rxmd]

These are Schrödinger's four words. It's them, and at the same time it's not them. They are in a superposition.

There, now you can both strangle me. And Mr Scruffy is Schrödinger's cat.

[Optimystik]

These are Schrödinger's four words. It's them, and at the same time it's not them. They are in a superposition.

There, now you can both strangle me. And Mr Scruffy is Schrödinger's cat.

And V has Schrödinger's Chromosome, while we're on the subject.

Anyway, those HAD to be the 4 words.
1) Right words (big flashy effect right after as Kish predicted.)
2) Right time (before the time stop ended and the fiends departed.)
3) Right being (himself - convincing to take the deal)
4) WRONG reasons (the situation was no longer just about saving his family; pride entered the equation.)

Every element of the prophecy is there, unlike every other "4 words" combination we've seen before this.

[Borris]

Besides, the strip title itself tells us that it's all The Wrong Reasons.

[Ancalagon]

An effective caster level of what... 40? 50? is as "ultimate" as it gets within this world.

And Vaarsuvius never said he wanted "lasting ultimate arcane power"! Mark that!

[rxmd]

And V has Schrödinger's Chromosome, while we're on the subject.

You mean as soon as you find out whether it's X or Y, [s]he dies?

[Dixieboy]

i am also a little iffy on this

A: Not ultimate arcane power, helluva lot of arcane power, but not ultimate
B: Three words, not four, three

So yea, i say this is not the four words, if it is then i am severely disappointed

[lord_khaine]

A: Not ultimate arcane power, helluva lot of arcane power, but not ultimate
B: Three words, not four, three

a: thats a bit hard to deside when we dont have a definition on ultimative arcane power, a lot of people would say that epic spells covers it.

b: actualy 4 words, the oracle newer said it had to be 4 different words

[Dixieboy]

At last, speculation is over and now we all know. So .. who came closest?

i stil think that stuttering on the I does not make it four words, i am convinced the giant has something else up his sleeve, i wouldn't really call it ultimate power either

[Optimystik]

You mean as soon as you find out whether it's X or Y, [s]he dies?

Half the boards would, that's for certain.

i am also a little iffy on this

A: Not ultimate arcane power, helluva lot of arcane power, but not ultimate
B: Three words, not four, three

So yea, i say this is not the four words, if it is then i am severely disappointed

A: Piloting three epic spellcasters that just so happen to fill in each of your own deficiencies sounds pretty "ultimate" to me.

B: He did say four words. The fact that one of them was repeated doesn't matter. If you repeat yourself during a Sending spell, it still counts towards the limit.

I have a feeling a mod will merge these threads very soon...

[kusje]

The thing that makes me doubt here is that the Oracle's prophecy made it sound like the four words would be the cause of V gaining ultimate arcane power, and that's not the case here. V isn't gaining power by means of saying "I... I must succeed", but merely while saying it.

The strip title is certainly intended to make us think this is the moment, but it wouldn't be the first time that Rich has played games with forumite expectations.

This is precisely what I thought and would have posted if the forums were not playing games with me!

[kusje]

Anyway, those HAD to be the 4 words.
1) Right words (big flashy effect right after as Kish predicted.)
2) Right time (before the time stop ended and the fiends departed.)
3) Right being (himself - convincing to take the deal)
4) WRONG reasons (the situation was no longer just about saving his family; pride entered the equation.)

Every element of the prophecy is there, unlike every other "4 words" combination we've seen before this.

EXCEPT!!!! V asked HOW he would achieve complete and total arcane power. Saying the 4 words did not make him achieve anything. Choose to accept the deal (technically, touching the colored ball) is what gave him the power. He would have still gotten the power without saying those 4 words.

These are not the words you are looking for!

[SPoD]

EXCEPT!!!! V asked HOW he would achieve complete and total arcane power. Saying the 4 words did not make him achieve anything. Choose to accept the deal (technically, touching the colored ball) is what gave him the power. He would have still gotten the power without saying those 4 words.

These are not the words you are looking for!

"How will I achieve" can be interpreted to mean "in what manner will I achieve" instead of "what is the cause of me achieving." I.E. a description of the circumstances, not of the cause.

Alternately, you could make the case that V would not have touched the orb if he/she had not talked him/herself into doing so with those words. Thus, the words led to the touching which led to the power.

[Kaytara]

The fulfilment of the prophecy is not clear-cut.

1) It's just that the phrasing "four words" implies that every single one of those words is important on its own and can not be snipped off at will. This is not the case here. V's stuttering of the word "I" is completely irrelevant. It's the actual three words, "I must succeed", that have any meaning here.
Therefore, if this were what the prophecy was referring to, it likely would have been phrased as "three words" rather than "four words".

Likewise, V is supposed to achieve power by saying the four words, not while doing so. That is, the four words are the direct cause of the power boost. This is far too ambiguous here to be considered applicable, as the words themselves didn't really change anything.

2) The same problem arises with "to the right being". If the "being" was supposed to be V, why does it need to be mentioned at all? Why not just "by saying the right four words at the right time for all the wrong reasons?" The "being" part implies that an interlocutor is present, that Vaarsuvius is saying these words to a being other than himself.

3) Vaarsuvius asks how he will achieve CaTUAP.

a⋅chieve
   /əˈtʃiv/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-cheev] Show IPA verb, a⋅chieved, a⋅chiev⋅ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to bring to a successful end; carry through; accomplish: The police crackdown on speeders achieved its purpose.
2. to get or attain by effort; gain; obtain: to achieve victory.
–verb (used without object)
3. to bring about an intended result; accomplish some purpose or effect.

Accomplish, attain by effort. In this case, the effort of... reaching out and touching the orb?

4) As already mentioned, this power is limited. I'm not talking about the duration, because technically that wouldn't contradict the prophecy. But the various clauses limit the effect of the arcane spells. I mean, Wish is an arcane spell, regardless of what effects it can achieve. It should be a part of UAP.
UAP, to my mind, sounds like it should be pure and simple, with no ifs and buts.

5) Rich has gone out of his way to lampshade the idea of V's prophecy getting fulfilled soon. "I need more power!" "Magical power beyond your wildest imaginings!" "The Wrong Reasons". This is, of course, purely a matter of opinion, but I doubt Rich would give us a neon-sign warning like that if this were the real thing.

So yes, sign me in for the "this is fake power" camp.

[Optimystik]

The fulfilment of the prophecy is not clear-cut.

Here we go...

1) It's just that the phrasing "four words" implies that every single one of those words is important on its own and can not be snipped off at will. This is not the case here. V's stuttering of the word "I" is completely irrelevant. It's the actual three words, "I must succeed", that have any meaning here.
Therefore, if this were what the prophecy was referring to, it likely would have been phrased as "three words" rather than "four words".

Implication is irrelevant to prophecies. V said 4 words. Count 'em: "I... I must succeed." 1... 2 3 4.

2) The same problem arises with "to the right being". If the "being" was supposed to be V, why does it need to be mentioned at all? Why not just "by saying the right four words at the right time for all the wrong reasons?" The "being" part implies that an interlocutor is present, that Vaarsuvius is saying these words to a being other than himself.

Again, implications are irrelevant - I don't see how you could get that implication out of it in any case. V is the right being simply because NOBODY can convince him to sell his soul but himself.

3) Vaarsuvius asks how he will achieve CaTUAP.

*definition*

Accomplish, attain by effort. In this case, the effort of... reaching out and touching the orb?

He would not have touched it without first convincing himself. Note the first time he almost touched it (before Lee's theory), he spoke to himself reassuringly then as well. The actual act, whether touching an orb, pricking his finger, signing his name in blood etc., is secondary to that justification.

4) As already mentioned, this power is limited. I'm not talking about the duration, because technically contradict the prophecy. But the various clauses limit the effect of the arcane spells. I mean, Wish is an arcane spell, regardless of what effects it can achieve. It should be a part of UAP.
UAP, to my mind, sounds like it should be pure and simple, with no ifs and buts.

He CAN cast both Wishes. He just can't duplicate divine effects with them. The purely arcane applications are still present in their entirety.

5) Rich has gone out of his way to lampshade the idea of V's prophecy getting fulfilled soon. "I need more power!" "Magical power beyond your wildest imaginings!" "The Wrong Reasons". This is, of course, purely a matter of opinion, but I doubt Rich would give us a neon-sign warning like that if this were the real thing.

So yes, sign me in for the "this is fake power" camp.

Did you miss the lightshow at the end of the comic? This is IT.