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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

    That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Why would this scene change your view of the story? You're not one of those people that prefer their protaganists to also be heroes are you? I never understood those people. As long as the story and the characters are interesting why does it matter if you agree with their views or actions?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    Charlie saw it coming. Why did he let it happen?

    If the RCC wins, Charlie has everything he wants. (Parson and the device.) But now Parson has a chance to win, and in that case Charlie gets paid but doesn't get his ultimate warlord or artifact.

    I'm nonplussed. Bad strategy on Charlie's part.
    Charlie still knows that he has enough archons in the air to take the garrison, and Parson knows that Charlie knows that Parson knows that, ad infinitum. Charlie can thus make any terms he wants with Parson - including "I take you prisoner alive, along with your artifact. You get to fight my archons."

    Parson, in fact, delayed Charlie by a similar tactic already "Let me play for another turn, and not only will I survive, but I'll have the 'Pliers as well." Charlie still gets what he wants, unless Parson can pull another reason out of his [thin air] to delay Charlie (Like, "The Tool just wiped out your archons with his dwagons. :O ,|,,")

    Oh, and Mercenaries get paid according to the terms of their agreement. Normally that means that you pay them win or lose- I can't imagine a deal made under severe duress would be better for Ansom than the standard.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    The unipegataurs along with various other flying units that stayed behind also got hit... essentially, ALL of them were within range... it's a complete unknown of whether or not Jacklyn would have gotten fried had she stayed back... hell instead of her, one of the other archons might have taken that blast... you want to say she died because she tried to help Jillian, but in essence if she didn't then someone else would have died if not her

    Really, i never understood why people are so damn hard on Jacklyn...
    That is what I thought she meant, but.....
    The pegataurs were in the back and they still got fried.
    True, but Jaclyn was the only archon that got hit- so if it was area of effect, she was too close, or it might be that Wanda got to preferentially pick the targets, and Jaclyn just made herself a more prominent one by flying to the fore to speak to Jillian. Or it might have made no difference; I'm just speculating on what seems to me to be the most likely explanation. ;)
    Last edited by TheMutant; 2009-03-03 at 12:35 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Hmmm. Maybe not such bad strategy for Charlie, if an archon catches the pliers.

    ...Just saying.

    I could really get my tinfoil hat out and wonder aloud: "Or could Wanda and Charlie have been in cahoots all along, to get Ansom to lose the pliers to Wanda?"

    ...Just stirring.
    Dibs on his dice.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    Why would this scene change your view of the story? You're not one of those people that prefer their protaganists to also be heroes are you? I never understood those people. As long as the story and the characters are interesting why does it matter if you agree with their views or actions?
    If you identify personally with the protagonist, and he does something you would never, ever do, the dissonance can produce disaffection with the story.

    I'm a bit put out at the ploy myself. Not my morals. But then again, not my butt on the line, either. So I'm willing to give Parson a pass. All's fair in love and war.
    Dibs on his dice.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Guys, think one step further...

    Where is Ansom and Bogroll going to land?

    On the ground. Without his carpet or any other method of levitation.

    Where Sizemore can smash n grab with his rock golems.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    Charlie saw it coming. Why did he let it happen?

    If the RCC wins, Charlie has everything he wants. (Parson and the device.) But now Parson has a chance to win, and in that case Charlie gets paid but doesn't get his ultimate warlord or artifact.

    I'm nonplussed. Bad strategy on Charlie's part.
    He let it happen because
    a)- he believes he can take the garrison solo if he needs to regardless of what Parson does, so whether the coalition succeeds or not is irrelevant to him. Letting this happen means he may get a chance at capturing the pliers as well as just Parson and his bracelet. Its a no-brainer that the spell security clause was deliberately left out of the new contract Charlie forced on Ansom just in case. And-
    b)- This lets him see more of Parsons skills and abilities, and lets Parson deplete his defenses and tricks and traps on someone elses forces rather than his almost certainly very expensive archons, making it easier for him to take GK himself next turn if he needs to.

    Of course we're rooting for Parson to come up with some way to prevent Charlies capture of him later on, but that remains to be seen.

    The last 2 panels serve both as humor for this strip, but also serve to let us know that at least some of the archons are not fooled by at least some foolamancer spells, which is relevant to theories of how Stanleys likely return to GK and the ensuing battle will play out. The foolamancer may not be as large a factor as previously believed in the GK vs Charlie conflict.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

    That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    This isn't a peace conference this is surrender. Do you know what happens when a side surrenders in a war-game? The side that surrenders is disbanded. There is no peaceful co-existance after a surrender in a wargame. Parson knows that if he surrenders, except for his casters and maybe some select units, everone else will be disbanded.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    Charlie saw it coming. Why did he let it happen?

    If the RCC wins, Charlie has everything he wants. (Parson and the device.) But now Parson has a chance to win, and in that case Charlie gets paid but doesn't get his ultimate warlord or artifact.

    I'm nonplussed. Bad strategy on Charlie's part.
    Nope. Because Charlie sees another angle here, the same bait Parson dangled in front of him before. If Ansom wins, then Charlie gets Parson and the Mathamancy Artifact. If Parson wins, Charlie gets Parson, the Mathamancy Artifact AND the Arkenpliers.

    Charlie has enough Archons on the scene to take the garrison all by himself. Parson and Charlie already discussed this. Parson and Charley's original "agreement" was that if Charlie stood by and didn't interfere, then after Parson beat Ansom, GK would be even weaker from having to fight the RCC, so Charlie would be still be able to claim the garrison even after Parson "won".

    If Charlie throws down with Ansom, then he loses the opportunity to get the Arkenpliers, and as Parson noted, he bit pretty hard on that bait the first time. Ansom's failing is Pride. If Charlie has a failing, it's GREED.
    Last edited by DoctorJest; 2009-03-03 at 12:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    If you identify personally with the protagonist, and he does something you would never, ever do, the dissonance can produce disaffection with the story.

    I'm a bit put out at the ploy myself. Not my morals. But then again, not my butt on the line, either. So I'm willing to give Parson a pass. All's fair in love and war.
    I don't suppose you watch Dexter? Even if you think the people he kills deserve to die, he had done some pretty bad things to save his own butt in the second season. Still a great show and fascinating character.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2009-03-03 at 12:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Ansom may not be paying to have spell security, but he is definitely paying to not have spell security.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaVespasa View Post
    He let it happen because
    a)- he believes he can take the garrison solo if he needs to regardless of what Parson does, so whether the coalition succeeds or not is irrelevant to him. Letting this happen means he may get a chance at capturing the pliers as well as just Parson and his bracelet. Its a no-brainer that the spell security clause was deliberately left out of the new contract Charlie forced on Ansom just in case. And-
    b)- This lets him see more of Parsons skills and abilities, and lets Parson deplete his defenses and tricks and traps on someone elses forces rather than his almost certainly very expensive archons, making it easier for him to take GK himself next turn if he needs to.

    Of course we're rooting for Parson to come up with some way to prevent Charlies capture of him later on, but that remains to be seen.

    The last 2 panels serve both as humor for this strip, but also serve to let us know that at least some of the archons are not fooled by at least some foolamancer spells, which is relevant to theories of how Stanleys likely return to GK and the ensuing battle will play out. The foolamancer may not be as large a factor as previously believed in the GK vs Charlie conflict.
    You beat me to most of that. However, foolamancy may still be on the table for Tool. We're talking the difference from using a Foolamancy Scroll and having a pocket Master-Class Foolamancer on the back of your dwagon.

    But yeah, it at least throws some doubt on the efficacy of Tool's veiled dwagons.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by Suicide Junkie View Post
    Ansom may not be paying to have spell security, but he is definitely paying to not have spell security.
    And therein lies the rub of why Charlie is a total bastard.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    The last two times Ansom was in trouble the archons saved his bacon. I don't see why they can't just swoop in, hand him back his carpet and pliers, and thus Parson will have wasted Bogroll and any chance to negotiate.

    I've lost faith that Parson can manage any lasting gain since every time he seems ready to win a victory Ansom rabbit hats a new rule or rules are seemingly bent in his favor, or he gets astoundingly lucky. The only way I see this going badly for Ansom is if the fall kills him. Otherwise the archons fix everything for the third time in a row. I suppose the zone could be "no fliers" but that's what we thought last time and the Archons swooped right in and saved his bacon.
    Last edited by Strega; 2009-03-03 at 12:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    This isn't a peace conference this is surrender. Do you know what happens when a side surrenders in a war-game? The side that surrenders is disbanded. There is no peaceful co-existance after a surrender in a wargame. Parson knows that if he surrenders, except for his casters and maybe some select units, everone else will be disbanded.
    Exactly, thank you. If Parson were to actually surrender it would be tantamount to murdering all the hundreds or thousands of troops under his control. To Ansom that is nothing; only the leadership matters. But to Parson that is unacceptable, and he will fight to the end no matter how dirty he has to get. The guy saying he can't buy the book because of this one page must just be having a bad day or something because it's an incomprehensible statement.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    "So Fearsome!"
    -Bogroll pg. 77

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

    That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    It wasn't a peace conference, it was a demand for unconditional surrender. And Parson used it to say "No."


    And You've Been Bogroll'd!!!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Now Bogroll FTW!

    For those who are complaining already about the way this strip went down. Think for a second. The 'typical' evil/bad side always has the game ending speech before they get struck down.

    This happened to be the case for Ansom. How is it good for our hero in sending Bogroll likely to his doom in doing what is right for their respective side? This is a standard trope being played the opposite way. Please open your mind to a different view, and sometimes you may actually learn something.

    For the Hero to loose face he would have to 1) have no regret in the action 2) Claim that he did the action himself to Ansom. Neither of those points occur therefore it is story moving forward instead of the same ol' same ol'
    Avatar: Red Dwagon decapitating a Cloth Golem, wonderfully drawn by Erfworld Artist Jamie Naguchi, oh yea and Rob Balder

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

    That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    So, where does Parson ever say "I am going to surrender"? Charlie, having received no notification that Parson is going to surrender, tells Ansom to parley with Bogroll at the tower. Bogroll, disguised as Parson, makes no move to parley, but attacks as soon as his veil is broken.

    Don't confuse "I need a truce so that I can surrender" and "Tell Ansom that I'll be up on the tower parapet in a few minutes to surrender" with "I offer a truce" or "I will be up on the tower parapet to surrender."

    Either Charlie misrepresented what he was told (Told Ansom "Parson will be at the tower to surrender") or Ansom got arrogant and misunderstood what Charlie said (Took "Parson asked me to tell you that he would be up on the tower parapet to surrender" to mean "Parson said he would be up on the tower parapet to surrender".

    In the second case, Charlie was relaying honest intelligence: Parson did indeed tell him that. Charlie clearly understood that it was a trap, and relayed the raw intelligence to Ansom. "Parson said to tell you..." Ansom, with the same raw data, comes to a different conclusion. Charlie, being hired by Ansom, does not dispute his conclusion, as open dissent could lead to the fragmentation of the RCC.

    This is a shining application of The Art of War: Let the enemy's complacency cause them to accept a simple ruse at fake value. Up until the tunnel attack failed, Ansom was certain of victory; offering him what appeared to be a way to win at a lower cost made him commit to a tunnel-only attack. After taking major losses due to delaying, Ansom personally leads the attack on the walls, and is seriously injured: At this point, Ansom is expecting further stratagems from Parson, and would not fall for a trap.

    Three additional tactics are employed against him: The fighting retreat, Sizemore and his golems, and Wanda's dance-fighting. Ansom has no counter to the first two. He just takes the losses and continues to fight. The dance-fighting would have defeated him, but he used his limited resources to develop a counter. Now, certain once again of victory, Ansom thinks that Parson is finally out of tricks.

    If Ansom was expecting another trick, the ruse would not have worked; Ansom would have said "Come out into the courtyard and surrender." or "Charlie's archons will accept your surrender on my behalf."

    EDIT: Also, nice fanservice, frame 12.
    Last edited by Decius; 2009-03-03 at 02:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    If you identify personally with the protagonist, and he does something you would never, ever do, the dissonance can produce disaffection with the story.

    I'm a bit put out at the ploy myself. Not my morals. But then again, not my butt on the line, either. So I'm willing to give Parson a pass. All's fair in love and war.
    Oh come on. This is just another one of those "One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" moments. Personally I think Parson did the right thing. He fights as if he was in the "real" world. Honor only gets you killed.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Daaaaang thats so BOOPING awsome
    I have sheer awsomeness coursing through my viens now yall made my day.
    The worlds problem is not that it is full of fools. It is that lightning is not distributed properly - Mark Twain 8)


    Spidew cavalry vs Cloth Golems illustraited by Jamie Noguchi in Rob Balder's Erfworld

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Honestly, I see a bright future for Parson with Charlie. Much brighter than he'd have under the Tool. It's certainly in his nature to keep fighting, but if it were me, with my friends safe in the magic kingdom, I'd have surrendered and gotten my boop out from under the megalomaniacal dictator I'm currently bound to serve.

    The Tool may be having a change of heart, but character flaws like those he possesses take more than a turn to work through.

    Things will get interesting when those Dwagons show up...but only if Stanley lets Parson command them, which I sorta doubt he will.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    HAHA! it's bogroll's 4 words! "For my lord hamstaaaaaar!"

    Definately the right reasons tho :(
    -"I believe in gender equality, so SHOOT ME YOU WUSSY!"
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

    That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    *snicker*

    Cry me a river.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Independently on how treacherous it is to attack during a "peace conference", the move is valid. Hell, if I happened to be leading an army, I woulnd't line up my guys nice and comfy to get shot down by the enemies. If you choose to follow the rules imposed by your enemies, you're predictable.
    Of course, the best course of action is always to make your enemies believe that you follow those rules, even if you don't. Then you can use an opportunity such as, say, a peace conference, to turn the war in your favor.
    Not doing everything you can is a crime against your side.

    By the way, if Parson has the smarts, he can order sizemore to open a pit (like the one he opened for attacking with golems earlier), make Bogroll and Ansom fall there, and close it. Result: Bogroll and Ansom live, and the leader of the coalition is captured.

    Captured Ansom is way more profitable for Parson then croaked Ansom, even more profitable then raised Ansom.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Bwahahahaha. Ansom got BOGROLL'D.

    It's been a long time coming, but it isn't over till the Fat Twoll Sings. Where is page 132?
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    I don't see why he wouldn't...he let Parson command the Dragons before. That ended up badly, but that wasn't only Parson's fault. Now he managed to defend the garrison against an overwhelming force better than he could possibly have expected and hat even the chance to win.

    And I think, Stanley seems to think differently about some things...he questioned his decisions earlier (he said he probably should never have left home) so maybe he'll give Parson a chance again.

    ---

    Anyway, I think that strip was simply awesome...one of the best strips thus far (at least in my opinion). The 300 reference was great and I couldn't stop laughing at the archon dialogue.

    And I think Ansom deserved it...claiming he "won" by duty and honor and blah...it actually was sheer numbers that made the trick.
    Last edited by Subtext; 2009-03-03 at 03:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Hahaha! Parson! I love you, you two-timing, deceitful, cheating bastard!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    Quote Originally Posted by Strega View Post
    The only way I see this going badly for Ansom is if the fall kills him. Otherwise the archons fix everything for the third time in a row. I suppose the zone could be "no fliers" but that's what we thought last time and the Archons swooped right in and saved his bacon.
    I am certain that Ansom will not die from hitting the ground. Either Bogroll will choke him to death on the way down, pop his head off like a champagne cork, or Ansom will survive the fall for about a millisecond, just long enough for Bogroll to hit him.

    Either way, Ansom is going to squirt all over the walls, just like a ketchup packet that got stepped on.
    Tardy Elves FTW!
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    Default Re: Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

    And who cast that veil ? Was it cast from scroll ? Did Maggy cast it ? I'm really not fond of this 'pulling out the spell we need right now from nowhere'.. Also, one thing that annoys me to no end is, where are the coalitions casters ? I mean if GK can have.. what 5 of them (including Misty...) How come a multinational coalition doesn't have a single one..

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