Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

[Gloverboy]

Bogroll is Awesome now. It can't be undone. Hopefully the same can be said of Ansom's big "Ker-splat!"

[KeiranHalcyon]

I have three things to say:

1. Ruthlessness
2. Never let yourself be caught monologuing
3. Ruthlessness

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Page 130, panel 7. What is Ansom doing there?


I strongly suspect the next trick Ansom will pull won't be from his @$$.

[Glory of Arioch]

And who cast that veil ? Was it cast from scroll ? Did Maggy cast it ? I'm really not fond of this 'pulling out the spell we need right now from nowhere'.. Also, one thing that annoys me to no end is, where are the coalitions casters ? I mean if GK can have.. what 5 of them (including Misty...) How come a multinational coalition doesn't have a single one..

I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Maggie cast the veil, using the Foolamancy scrolls in Wanda's stash.

Also, we know that the coalition has some healomancy casters in its ranks, but it doesn't appear to have any others. Traditional Erfworld warfare would have you putting your casters out of danger since they're so rare and useful (not to mention their generally low combat stats.) Parson is fairly revolutionary in his use of casters in defensive and offensive roles.

[RMS Oceanic]

And who cast that veil ? Was it cast from scroll ? Did Maggy cast it ? I'm really not fond of this 'pulling out the spell we need right now from nowhere'..

It's not "from nowhere". In the page where Parson explains strategy to the casters and Bogroll, it's explicitly stated that they have a foolomancy scroll.

Also, one thing that annoys me to no end is, where are the coalitions casters ? I mean if GK can have.. what 5 of them (including Misty...) How come a multinational coalition doesn't have a single one..

It would appear that casters are an extremely rare resource in Erfworld. Remember that Gobwin Knob once spanned 11 cities, a huge empire on the average TBS map, so it makes sense that Stanley could have plundered the casters from there. Remember that two of them came from FAQ alone.

[defufna]

It's not "from nowhere". In the page where Parson explains strategy to the casters and Bogroll, it's explicitly stated that they have a foolomancy scroll.

Ok fair enough, forgot about that one..

It would appear that casters are an extremely rare resource in Erfworld. Remember that Gobwin Knob once spanned 11 cities, a huge empire on the average TBS map, so it makes sense that Stanley could have plundered the casters from there. Remember that two of them came from FAQ alone.

And thats what I'm bitching about :).. I do understand GK was huge.. then again.. Coallition also has to be huge since it was able to take down GK... Also faq was a rather small country, and had two casters.. It's still unbelievable that others have none.. Oh and another thing.. casters are produced in this world.. not born.. so I can hardly understand how come nobody produced them when they are that useful..

[y0rrick]

I declare this comic to be made of Win and Awesome.

In regards to the underhandedness of Parsons strategy: Screw 'em!

When you're in a fight (or war as it may be) there is only one goal; make sure the other guy can't hurt you. In other words, do whatever it takes, no matter what, to put them on the ground and keep them there.

For a better visualisation of this rule read "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card.

[KeiranHalcyon]

For a better visualisation of this rule read "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card.

Parson himself reference the book in one of his klog entries. I beleive it was the one labeled "STRATEGERY!"

Also, I don't really see much of a resemblence to 300. I thought it was closer to some of the promo art for God of War, way back when. I.e., made of awesome and win, but otherwise fairly generic. And Bogroll's battle cry struck me as something Minsc might cry out.

This, is for Justice. And this, is for my HAMSTAAAAAAAAAHRR!

[factotum]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Parson make it clear that he's already contracted himself to Charlie to use his Mathamancy gauntlet a certain number of times? Whether Parson wins or loses Charlie gets some use out of him, and Charlie seems like the sort to plan for the long haul--he'll be hoping to get Parson at some point in the future regardless of what happens now.

[sun_tzu]

I'll admit, this does strike as Parson's first truly "villainous" move.
Tricking your enemies is perfectly acceptable in warfare. But using the cover of negotiation/surrender to attack? Yeah, that's a Villain Move (tm). Possibly a justified one...maybe...but still.
And is it just me, or does Erfworld have an unnerving tendency to kill the nicer people?

[Moonshadow]

Treachery during a peace conference? Parson may be a protaganist, but he's no hero.

That one scene, by itself, has made me decide not to buy the graphic novel when it comes out. Although I will wait to see if the situation changes.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

...You're kidding me, aren't you?



Also, this isn't villanous, this is an appropriate use of Foolamancy and deception. Charlie has been pulling cheap tricks all along, yay to Parson for fighting back.

[Onmi]

I think Charlie meant to screw Ansom over, he purposely left spell security off the contract, he GAVE Parson a way, he tested him to find a way to win despite his first interruption, not only that, his 'outrageous deal' probably involves a large amount of the Schmukers that may drain Ansom's coffers.

I mean imagine, he didn't take a turn off because if he DIDN'T charge, he wouldn't be able to pay for such a huge army,causing him to dispel most of his army, his allies see a losing situation and break alliance, the Arkenpliers are in Parson's hands.

If he isn't croaked and heirless than Charlie will drain him of funds. In short, Arson signed his own loss.

and next turn? BOOM Stanley returns with his Dragonflight and catches Charlie in a pincer, he either recalls his Archons or face the flight, chances are if he can't take down the flight then Wanda raises the croaked archons, or even a croaked Ansom.

remember, Charlie asked how many Archons he needed to secure victory at there CURRENT strength, not including the Dragon Flight, and a courtyard filled with croaked units.

[Lombard]

I am certain that Ansom will not die from hitting the ground. Either Bogroll will choke him to death on the way down, pop his head off like a champagne cork, or Ansom will survive the fall for about a millisecond, just long enough for Bogroll to hit him.

Either way, Ansom is going to squirt all over the walls, just like a ketchup packet that got stepped on.

Haha, please... Ansom will find a way out of this just like he has every other time people were slavering over his impending demise. Have you not been reading the same strip as me?

[mistformsquirrl]

Ansom's plenty competant, he's just too lawful for his own good. He apparently didn't expect parson to pull off an "I Surrender Suckers". But he's not nearly paranoid enough for his own good, so he gets Bogrolled.

I hereby vote Bogrolled as a new Erf colloquialism. Like being rickrolled, but with more croaking at the end.

[Fafnir13]

And thats what I'm bitching about :).. I do understand GK was huge.. then again.. Coallition also has to be huge since it was able to take down GK... Also faq was a rather small country, and had two casters.. It's still unbelievable that others have none.. Oh and another thing.. casters are produced in this world.. not born.. so I can hardly understand how come nobody produced them when they are that useful..

It's not that they have none. We even saw that Transilvyto has a Thinkamancer of sorts. Given that casters are so rare and valuable, I'm expecting that most casters will be at home base and not being risked on the front lines. You'll note Stanley didn't have his casters running around before hand. The coalition has to think beyond this one episode. If they can't go expending nigh irreplaceable resources taking out one errant kingdom. They're got to think a few turns beyond. Parson has two advantages here in that the front lines are home base. No other place his casters could be. Also, if he doesn't recklessly use everything he's got, he's booped.
In book 2 or 3 or whatever, I expect Parson'll have to deal with enemy casters as Stanley's armies assail the hearts of other kingdoms. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.

[Onmi]

I'll admit, this does strike as Parson's first truly "villainous" move.
Tricking your enemies is perfectly acceptable in warfare. But using the cover of negotiation/surrender to attack? Yeah, that's a Villain Move (tm). Possibly a justified one...maybe...but still.
And is it just me, or does Erfworld have an unnerving tendency to kill the nicer people?

Not exactly, Ciaphas Cain did it to in Cains Last Stand, he said he wanted to discuss the terms of surrender, he didn't say WHO'S surrender

Likewise Bogroll wasn't Parson, it was Ansom who didn't check, descended alone, and talked down to who he THOUGHT was Parson, Bogroll heard his master insulted, hence, For Lord Hamstar! It was ANSOM'S fault for not being clear.

[mistformsquirrl]

I think its more a question of Law/Chaos rather than Good/Evil (to use D&D terms)

A move like this undoubtedly breaks some rules of warfare, and it also means that if he ever truly wants to surrender in the future, its far, far less likely to be allowed... but its not inherently evil, especially when fighting for the survival of your kingdom.

It'd be different if say, under the guise of negotiations he'd moved into someone else's city, and then sprung a trap killing off most/all the nobility while they're unarmed. *That* would be evil I think.

[Onmi]

I think its more a question of Law/Chaos rather than Good/Evil (to use D&D terms)

A move like this undoubtedly breaks some rules of warfare, and it also means that if he ever truly wants to surrender in the future, its far, far less likely to be allowed... but its not inherently evil, especially when fighting for the survival of your kingdom.

It'd be different if say, under the guise of negotiations he'd moved into someone else's city, and then sprung a trap killing off most/all the nobility while they're unarmed. *That* would be evil I think.

Now see, but his enemies have no proof that he wasn't heading out right now or Charlie could seal the deal on Ansom by broadcasting a fake message of Ansom planing to kill the Coalition after he was done (they can display frigging DDR I think they can manage this)

that way Bogroll comes off looking like a hero, and Parson explains he just had to test how Ansom really was.

A **** move, but it comes off favorably.

[HandofShadows]

Oh, a new term enters the lexicon "Baggroll'd.

This was a good (if ruthless) move on Parson's part. I belive that Ansom will survive (lands on a cloth Golom?) but he will be badly injured and NOT be able to command his forces in the courtyard. This leaves the forces in the courtyard without a commander (and dance leader) and Wanda is all set up to counterattack. The Archons cannot help at this point so the RCC's forces are going to be pushed back out (takeing the injured Ansom with them) and Wanda has a real chance to get her 'pliers back (don't think that will happen yet though, I think she will only get them back near the end of the story after a character is revealed to be something other than what we think). Bagroll might surive with this ability to regenerate (if he lands on someone fairly soft).

On another note Ansome got what he paid for, but it's clear he should have paid more. The price of arrogance.

[Island Gorilla]

It's not underhand, it's politics.

Parson knows that the Coalition must capture him alive. So no matter how vile he acts in the meantime, ultimately his outlook is fairly rosy, win or lose.

Ansom is under no such protection. In fact, Stanley would probably fistpound Parson through a wall if he managed to kill Ansom (though I imagine he'd rather do the deed himself). Additionally, he doesn't know that Parson knows he must be captured alive, which is another reason why he wasn't expecting to be Bogroll'd.

Though whether anyone ever expects to be Bogroll'd is a query I leave to the rest of the forum.

[Onmi]

By the By, if the earlier comic is true, than Bogroll can probably survive this, remember the other guards used to give him an umbrella with a target and he got giant boulders dropped on him.

he must be a frigging tank.

[TheTurnipKing]

Well, in the short-term, I really hope that luckomancy holds out for Bogroll.

In the longer term, this should be interesting. Charlie must seem pretty untrustworthy at this point.

Parson knows that the Coalition must capture him alive. So no matter how vile he acts in the meantime, ultimately his outlook is fairly rosy, win or lose.

Actually, they only have to capture him as part of their contract with Charlie, but what Parson is doing is driving a wedge between the two. The "secret allies" bit and the fact that Parson is sending (untrue) messages to Ansom through Charlie could accomplish that, and if he succeeds, any guaranteed protection from Jetstone's wrath is probably null and void.

In short, Ansom no longer knows for sure which of the two is treacherous (though since Ansom has previous with Charlie, that might suggest that it's Parson)

But even Ansom's apparent failure could work to divide the coalition.

[Aquillion]

I do like that the same archon who said earlier that they weren't paying for spell security with jillian when jacklyn told her she was under a suggestion spell appears to be lamenting the fact that the new archon leader isn't doing the same unpaid for service

I think she was just mourning Jaclyn by remembering what her friend would've said in this situation.

If you identify personally with the protagonist, and he does something you would never, ever do, the dissonance can produce disaffection with the story.

I'm a bit put out at the ploy myself. Not my morals. But then again, not my butt on the line, either. So I'm willing to give Parson a pass. All's fair in love and war.

Parson doesn't give a damn about honor or nobility or honesty. He's a gamer; he cares about winning. (Also, he's not even entirely convinced that this world is real.)

Also, compare with Ansom's speech. He says that his honor led to him prevailing... right before he was (apparently) defeated by Parson's disregard for honor.

Honor and nobility are for stick-up-the-bum nobles like Ansom who can afford it. Parson does what he's gotta do win.

[sun_tzu]

Honor and nobility are for stick-up-the-bum nobles like Ansom who can afford it. Parson does what he's gotta do win.

Ah, no. Honor - a glorified word for "trustworthiness" - is a large part of what makes society sustainable.
Stick-up-the-bumness us completely optional, and not recommended.

[MadMaw]

In regards to the underhandedness of Parsons strategy: Screw 'em!

I agree, if Parson is a true gamer, honor doesn't enter into it. Next strip, I expect he's going to tee-bag Ansom's corpse to make Bogroll's kill official.

On a broader note, Parson and Stanley represent to Ansom et al a disruption to the status quo, which they find threatening. While GK's side doesn't necessarily realise it, they're Erfworld revolutionaries of sorts. Aside from the fact that he's a smug jerk, I think it would be a shame if Parson joined Charlie and this angle wasn't further explored.

[Onmi]

I play a Paladin in some games, and sometimes you just have to play SMARTER than the enemy, yes it's unlawful, but it was the right thing to do, I would do it for my other Party members (Or in this case army)

and again, he never SPECIFICALLY said that he was surrendering, just like in one Paladin guide book, he was bound to an evil wizard (I believe) who told him to bring him the head of a nobleman. So he did... attached to his body, alive, with a full regiment of guards.

If Parson didn't word for word say "I need him to negotiate MY/OUR surrender" he's not at fault, one could say negotiations were closed the moment Ansom told him to kneel and offer his sword. Hence it wasn't him breaking negotiations, that was his response. No, no he will not offer his sword, instead Ansom can die.

[The Old Hack]

By the By, if the earlier comic is true, than Bogroll can probably survive this, remember the other guards used to give him an umbrella with a target and he got giant boulders dropped on him.

he must be a frigging tank.

Ah well... technically it was 'crap' he got dropped at him... but given the density and the velocity of the stuff when it hit, I doubt most people would notice the difference between that and a boulder. They would still go splat.

Yes, the move was telegraphed, in one of the delicious 'so obvious it can't possibly be the case' traps I occasionally manage to work myself into. It was also quite ruthless (working as advertised). But Parson has his back to the wall... and he wants to win. Arguing that he is no hero... well. He wasn't summoned for being the Ultimate Hero but the Ultimate Warlord. And to Parson it isn't what is heroic but what works.

I admit to a small hope that Bogroll will survive. I like him. We'll see.

Small edit: Is it me, or could that line be made to sound, "For my Lord Hamstard"?

[Onmi]

Ah well... technically it was 'crap' he got dropped at him... but given the density and the velocity of the stuff when it hit, I doubt most people would notice the difference between that and a boulder. They would still go splat.

Yes, the move was telegraphed, in one of the delicious 'so obvious it can't possibly be the case' traps I occasionally manage to work myself into. It was also quite ruthless (working as advertised). But Parson has his back to the wall... and he wants to win. Arguing that he is no hero... well. He wasn't summoned for being the Ultimate Hero but the Ultimate Warlord. And to Parson it isn't what is heroic but what works.

I admit to a small hope that Bogroll will survive. I like him. We'll see.

Also Charlie neglected to mention anything suspicious, it was Ansom's pride and misinterpretation that lead to this.An unlawful but 'good' move.

Proof that Vinnie is the only thing that KEPT Ansom alive.

[Stefman]

For my Lord Hamstaaaaaar! Brilliant!

[Pronounceable]

BOGROLL'D FTW!

Is this the end of Ansom? Will Bogroll survive to bogroll again? Will Wanda get the 'pliers and become the FINAL ULTIMATE SECRET BOSS that RCC, GK and Charlie will have to ally to take on? Dun dun dunnnh!


In other news, here's what happens when a bogrolling attempt goes awry.