Erfworld 144 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 131

[MattR]

Hm some points that have really stuck with me:

1)a) Ansom received the message privately via Thinkamancy, he might be the only person who knew except for Charlie that any surrender was going to happen. If he didnt bother to communicate it to subordinates then there's no impact on Parson's future ability to negotiate with enemies because no one else is aware of any deception.

b) Charlie made the communication to Ansom, because of this misdirection there's no guarantee Parson will be held accountable for the surrender message. Ansom could just as easily blame Charlie.

2) Ansom thinks that the foolamancer is off with Stanley, when suddenly he's faced with a betrayal involving foolamancy... who's intel had the Foolamancer fleeing away from GK again?

3) Has Ansom's systematic destruction/capture of the GK side's cities really been honorable? Is forcing a surrender through the threat of violence honorable? (Example: Someone threatens you with a knife demanding your wallet, you say 'dont hurt me, ill give it to you' to lower their guard... then you counterattack. Who's honorable or dishonorable in this?)

[Doran]

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[Lamech]

2) Ansom thinks that the foolamancer is off with Stanley, when suddenly he's faced with a betrayal involving foolamancy... who's intel had the Foolamancer fleeing away from GK again?

Ouch... does Ansom believe the intel anyway? That means he thinks Stanley's back. With his dwagons. That will cause oh so much confusion.
Does he think Charlie is a liar? That won't impact Parson ablity to deal in anyway then. Nice. And some arrows should be flying the general direction of the Archons soon. And he still thinks Stanley is back with his 30+ dwagons.
Will Ansom die and make this a moot point?
Would it be worse for the coalition if he lives?
Soon some of these questions may be answered.

[Ragn Charran]

b) Charlie made the communication to Ansom, because of this misdirection there's no guarantee Parson will be held accountable for the surrender message. Ansom could just as easily blame Charlie.

...except that not even Ansom can be so stupid as to think Charlie sent the twoll with a veil to the tower to negotiate. He may not be smart enough to know Charlie could have prevented it, or maybe planned it in cahoots with Parson, but Parson has to be involved simply by stopping his troops from fighting and sending a lone twoll, who just happens to look like him, to the place Charlie said Parson would surrender. For what other purpose, besides the deception, would Parson do this?

[hajo]

1)a) Ansom received the message privately via Thinkamancy, he might be the only person who knew except for Charlie that any surrender was going to happen. If he didnt bother to communicate it to subordinates then there's no impact on Parson's future ability to negotiate with enemies

Good point.
I also wonder what would happen now to the troops in the courtyard, if Ansom is croaked/captured - leaderless, no dance-bonus, must autoattack ?

2) Ansom thinks that the foolamancer is off with Stanley,... who's intel had the Foolamancer fleeing away from GK again?

Vinnie discovered that foolamancy was used in the battle at the pass, but we don't know if he informed Ansom about it.

[SteveMB]

Good point.
I also wonder what would happen now to the troops in the courtyard, if Ansom is croaked/captured - leaderless, no dance-bonus, must autoattack ?

The RCC does have other warlords -- a fair number of them, judging from the scene where Ansom reviews the original plan at the war council of "courageous and competent warlords". Whether they'd be able to press the attack (or inclined to do so, given the increasing doubts within the RCC) is another question.

Vinnie discovered that foolamancy was used in the battle at the pass, but we don't know if he informed Ansom about it.

Ansom knew that Stanley had a Foolamancer, and concurred with Jillian's assessment that Stanley had flown the coop with the dwagons. He has no way of knowing whether Stanley took the Foolamancer or left him behind -- my guess is that he assumed as a matter of course that Stanley the Worm would do his best to hide from pursuit and therefore took the Foolamancer along.

[Lamech]

Ansom knew that Stanley had a Foolamancer, and concurred with Jillian's assessment that Stanley had flown the coop with the dwagons. He has no way of knowing whether Stanley took the Foolamancer or left him behind -- my guess is that he assumed as a matter of course that Stanley the Worm would do his best to hide from pursuit and therefore took the Foolamancer along.

I'm really wondering what the coalition will think about the casters being left behind. It would be reasonable to assume that Stanley took his most valuable resources with him, at least as much as possible. But he hasn't, the knights, the casters, Parson, the eye books, and a freaking artifact. If the coalition thinks to hard there should be some major questions.

Vinnie discovered that foolamancy was used in the battle at the pass, but we don't know if he informed Ansom about it.

He could have contacted Vinnie through the Archons, and if he has... well then there are three options for Ansom
1) Vinny is lying.
2) The message was tampered with, something those foolamancy wielding Archons could do.
3) GK has two foolamancers. Which should't even be plausible.

[SteveMB]

I'm really wondering what the coalition will think about the casters being left behind. It would be reasonable to assume that Stanley took his most valuable resources with him, at least as much as possible. But he hasn't, the knights, the casters, Parson, the eye books, and a freaking artifact.

It's not clear how much the RCC (outside of Charlie) knows about the artifact. Making the artifact (and Parson) part of Charlie's share of spoils was part of the amended terms, but as far as we know it was a generic "all magic items or artifacts" clause rather than a specific description. (In fact, it probably was the former, as that would be better for Charlie -- it would mean he'd be entitled to the Arkenpliers if Parson captured it before GK fell, and also any incidentals such as whatever is left of Wanda's stash).

That said... yes, if Ansom thought it through, the fact that Stanley went off with a few dozen dwagons to start a new side and didn't take all his casters would seem distinctly odd.

He could have contacted Vinnie through the Archons

True. There's no indication that he has, though -- he's been pretty busy since he got the Archons back on his side, and probably doesn't want to pull any of the Archons off DDR-projection duty.

[Aquillion]

I'm really wondering what the coalition will think about the casters being left behind. It would be reasonable to assume that Stanley took his most valuable resources with him, at least as much as possible. But he hasn't, the knights, the casters, Parson, the eye books, and a freaking artifact. If the coalition thinks to hard there should be some major questions.

He could have contacted Vinnie through the Archons, and if he has... well then there are three options for Ansom
1) Vinny is lying.
2) The message was tampered with, something those foolamancy wielding Archons could do.
3) GK has two foolamancers. Which should't even be plausible.

Or, you know, he could figure out the truth, which is that it was cast from a scroll. We don't know how rare scrolls are or if Ansom would know that much about magic, but it's not that much of a stretch.

Of course, given his current position, he may have to do that thinking fast.

[Lamech]

Or, you know, he could figure out the truth, which is that it was cast from a scroll. We don't know how rare scrolls are or if Ansom would know that much about magic, but it's not that much of a stretch.

Of course, given his current position, he may have to do that thinking fast.

I was assuming that casters who did multiple kinds of magic were not something thats was normal. But it seems that all of GK's casters can do it at least from a scroll. Perhaps there is some abnormal reason why GK's casters can, but your probably right that the scrolls would be the best assumption.

[SteveMB]

I was assuming that casters who did multiple kinds of magic were not something thats was normal. But it seems that all of GK's casters can do it at least from a scroll. Perhaps there is some abnormal reason why GK's casters can, but your probably right that the scrolls would be the best assumption.

I get the impression that using a scroll requires a caster -- not necessarily a caster of the appropriate type, but a caster of some type. So it still leaves the question of why Stanley would leave some casters behind (Ansom has seen Sizemore and Wanda) and leave a stash of scrolls behind. The most straightforward theory is that Stanley left GK as tough as possible to delay pursuit, though even that's a bit weak (the air units aren't really needed to assault GK with the dwagons gone, so they could be, and in fact were, sent after His Toolishness).

Admittedly, Ansom hasn't really had time to ponder those issues.

[Ragn Charran]

I think the reason Stanley left the casters is twofold:

1. He's an idiot when it comes to strategy.

2. Remember how pissed he was when he decided to leave. He ordered Parson, Wanda, and Sizemore out of his sight, and to stay out of his sight. He'd really have to calm down about the lake debacle to not disband them on sight, let alone let them come with him to Faq. He was probably, in his mind, abandoning them to die in the mess they created, which he probably sees as just and right.

Still doesn't fully explain why he left Maggie behind, but it may be that he couldn't see any use for her in his flight (while Jack could veil him) and valued another KISS over a thinkamancer - and to be honest, using a thinkamancer in battle requires subtlety and imagination, qualities Stanley lacks in spades.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Ouch... does Ansom believe the intel anyway? That means he thinks Stanley's back. With his dwagons. That will cause oh so much confusion.

Hmm, I don't see how he could think this. It is the RCC turn, Stanley can't move until the RCC ends turn. If the dwagons were back, they would have been involved in the fighting previously during the RCC turn, or at the very least visible. Ansom surrounded the city, it's not likely that all those eyes would miss spotting Stanley coming back in veiled.

But, what Ansom is probably thinking right now is more along the lines of "*Gah!* Need air! Damn Twoll, leggo my esophagus!"

[SteveMB]

I think the reason Stanley left the casters is twofold:

Well, yes, we know the actual reasons. The oddity is what Ansom would make of him leaving casters behind, if thought it through. He hasn't really had time to do that since learning that there are casters left in GK, and the absence of Vinny (who's quicker on the "hey, this don't look right" uptake) doesn't help.

[Lamech]

Admittedly, Ansom hasn't really had time to ponder those issues.

A very good point. He hasn't had weeks on end to ponder them. Although the coalition leaders are in the middle of a truce, they can set their minds to thoughts such as these. And the other coalition leaders may very soon be leading RCC's forces.

[Decius]

Ansom has absolutely no way of knowing what the Transilvitan forces have done, other than to know that Stanley isn't dead- possibly not even Charlie's 'offer they can't accept'. They aren't part of the RCC anymore, so he doesn't even get a unit list. He hasn't been shown to have communications with them.

The last think that goes trough Ansom's mind might be "Stanley and the foolamancer are still here."
Or, the last thing that goes through Ansom's mind might very well be Bogroll doing the bellyflop.

[Goshen]

Ansom needs Vinnie around real bad. Needs that smart advice.

[elrod13]

Some thoughts come to mind...

[elrod13]

Some thoughts come to mind...
Parson may not KNOW that Bogroll has taken on Ansom. Parson's last instruction to Bogroll was to wait with Maggie and do what she says.
Ansom is the Erfworld version of a bigot. (BEAST! he called Bogroll. No hyperbole there). Ansom will probably delight in disbanding non-royal non-men.
What IS charlie's weakness? There must be one; otherwise he would run Erf.

[fendrin]

Ansom has absolutely no way of knowing what the Transilvitan forces have done, other than to know that Stanley isn't dead- possibly not even Charlie's 'offer they can't accept'. They aren't part of the RCC anymore, so he doesn't even get a unit list. He hasn't been shown to have communications with them.

Although it hasn't been shown, I think communication between Don King and Ansom is a reasonable assumption. After all, we know the Don has a thinkamancer. Further, the fact that many of the Archons are in the poodleskirt dance-fight outfits should tip off Ansom that they were originally sent to meet up with Jillian and Co., but did not. Finally, it seems unlikely that one side (Charlescomm) could be allied with two other sides (RCC, Jillian/TV) at the same time; if this is the case, Ansom would know about it.

[Onmi]

That depends on how Mercenary Forces are govourned in Erfworld I guess.

It's possible that Ansom can higher out an 'amount' of units from Charlescomm and services, like spell protection.

Then again as Ansom said he disbanded Charlescomm from the RCC makes me believe that Charles can only have 1 real client, otherwise what reason was there to disband them other than hiding where they have gone?

As for Charlie? He DOES have a weakness. HE is hedonistic, he wont do anything that doesn't please him, or, things that would please him take priority.

Watching Parson pull the underdog victory with a backdoor he intentionally left in but didn't expose? THAT is a show, he's like us, he's watching and he's getting excited, he's speculating each sides next move. The fact he's now being PAID to do so is all the sweeter.

[Fjolnir]

I don't know if there was any contact since technically, transylvito broke alliance with the RCC to get the move trick and beat stanley to the chokepoint

[Onmi]

I don't know if there was any contact since technically, transylvito broke alliance with the RCC to get the move trick and beat stanley to the chokepoint

Ah yes well that would be a reason to break alliance.

[fendrin]

I don't know if there was any contact since technically, transylvito broke alliance with the RCC to get the move trick and beat stanley to the chokepoint

An alliance is not necessary for communication. Parson contacted Ansom and they certainly did not ally first.

[Fjolnir]

True but since charlie Booped them, they probably lack thinkamancy in the field, and are to preoccupied with the hunt for stanley

[Starwaster]

I must say... that face Ansom makes as Bogroll SWATS! the Arkenpliers from his hands? That face really suits Ansom.

[Starwaster]

If the coalition thinks to hard there should be some major questions.

I've never credited the RCC with an abundance of thinking, and if Ansom's the best they've got...

[TheTurnipKing]

That said... yes, if Ansom thought it through, the fact that Stanley went off with a few dozen dwagons to start a new side and didn't take all his casters would seem distinctly odd.

Though we readers can assume that it's because Stanley couldn't take anyone else. Presumably there's a weight limit on the dwagons or somesuch.

[kreszantas]

The 3 were needed for the dance fighting bonuses and the I love it loud (peter criss does not sing and backups in that one).

[teratorn]

If you win, you can get away with just about anything. In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory.

If there is something history teaches us is that treachery is often the best way to secure a victory. When the romans conquered my corner of the world they called the local tribes for peace talks and then they simply butchered all males of military age. When some of the survivors staged a guerrilla war they had the leader of the resistance killed by one of his own men. And they didn't even pay the guy ("Rome doesn't pay traitors").

People in this forum harbor some truly weird ideas, like there being honor in invading other people's lands, killing them and stealing their stuff. That's what invading armies do.