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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralKit View Post
    As for your complaints about Bogroll vs. Ansom, well, Bogroll didn't need to do anything besides knock Ansom off his carpet and let gravity does the rest.
    Gah, you beat me to it. Came here to say that, so I'll say it even though it's now been said:

    Even if Bogroll did ZERO damage it's not unreasonable to think the fall alone could kill Ansom.

    Even if Wanda took damage from the Archon's attack, it's not unreasonable for the fall to have left her wounded rather than croaked.

    As said above, Wanda was flying down to grab the pliers when her mount was destroyed, and she was nearly there - if anything I'd say the falling damage she took would be from the inertia she already had built up flying down there. The actual distance involved was nothing. Ansom, meanwhile, fell from a MASSIVE height.

    It may be wrong to figure physics into it, of course, since this isn't the real world. I'd think the most likely thing would be to assume that there's a fixed amount of damage (or fixed number of damage 'dice') per X feet. If that were, say, ten... then Wanda would have taken maybe 2X while Ansom took something closer to 10X. It's a big difference, and I'm betting that X does not equal 1.

    FWIW: I would have liked to see Ansom hit the dirt, but it doesn't bother me that they did it the way they did. The little 'urk' noise as Bogroll clamped around his neck is enough.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by glenndo View Post
    What I don't get is, why did Parson bother to have Bogroll kill Ansom if they were going to collapse the whole thing anyways. All they would have needed to do was get Ansom of his flying carpet, and he would have croaked with everyone else. It seems un-Parson like to finsih a personal vendetta, when just doing the second part of the plan would have achieved the same results.
    Well, one thing you have to keep in mind is that we don't know how much damage the collapse actually caused.... we don't know how many units were croaked, if they were badly damaged ofr if it was only enough to croak the heavily wounded or those that got hit hard like having an entire wall fall on top of them

    In thoery, much of the coalition could still be alive and ansom and the other remaining warlords could have also survived the attack like that... If Ansom was not croaked this move would just piss him off... he would gather his forces back together, have the healers heal as much as they could and probably push on the charge... With Ansom gone however, his charisma is no longer a factor and as such the remaining warlords might be more willing to call it a day and leave.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    We're no strangers to warfare
    You have your rules, and so do I
    My lord's survival's what I'm thinking of
    You would have simply croaked any other guy

    I... just want to crush you into the ground
    But you need to understand

    never gonna let you up
    never gonna let you out
    never gonna let you hurt my lord hamster

    And I'm gonna make you die
    With no chance to say goodbye
    And your Jillian's gonna cry 'cuz I broke you.

    RIP Bogroll. Best. Lackey. Ever.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    But Parson and the GK units are retreating to the dungeon - so Wanda doesn't have access to the bodies above-ground.
    GK will get their turn before the RCC (unless the shift to a new command changes where the RCC falls in the daily turn order). If the RCC pulls back from the ruins, or the surviving units holding the ruins are too weak to withstand a sortie from the dungeon, they'll be able to retake the area, though there's also the question of whether the bodies are now buried out of reach.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    To those that say Ansom went alone, he had an escort of Archons. It's not entirely his fault that they screwed him like that.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    To those that say Ansom went alone, he had an escort of Archons. It's not entirely his fault that they screwed him like that.
    "Based on our last client's experiences, I strongly recommend that you consider purchasing the spell security option. Charlie's fees for this additional protection are nominal."

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    To those that say Ansom went alone, he had an escort of Archons. It's not entirely his fault that they screwed him like that.
    Ansom was a royal who ganged up on non royals. Charlie is a non royal.

    Charlie was in it for the *money*, not for helping a friend. Both Ansom and Stanley were threats/enemies, both sides are now weaker and Charlie is richer. Still a win-win for him, will remain so if he doesn't "get a bloody nose" by losing more Archons than the fees cover.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    I think it's not because Ansom is dead per say, but because he died "off-screen'. this is something everyone has been anticipating for a very, very long time, and suddenly it's there and gone without even being seen.
    I agree. Maybe this is one for a flashback. When Ansom gets rezzed with a 1-up mushroom, or a phoenix down, or something. I hope he truly IS dead. It's time for a new villain for us to love/loathe.

    If Wanda has the juice to raise all those buried as undead it would make digging after Hamster a serious pain-in-the-ass. Dig up a rock, fight zombies, dig up another rock, fight more. I suspect though, that Stanley will arrive with his remaining Dwagons, rout the remainders of Ansoms demoralized armies. Then claim to be winner via his own skills. Stanley is still going to *BOOP* himself when he sees the smoking crater that was his home.

  9. - Top - End - #159

    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by dr pepper View Post
    Apparently Ansom's death doesn't force an end turn. I wonder who has that authority now?
    I was wondering the same thing. I've also been wondering how the mechanics work for Ansom, and not his king, to be the one to be calling for the end of turns, while in the field and not aware of what the king might be doing with the forces remaining to him back home. This is a huge contrast with Parson worrying about Stanley possibly ending turn at a poor moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatu View Post
    Well, for starters I'd have preferred if Ansom hadn't suddenly become stupid enough to accept a knave's surrender all alone, deep in enemy territory at the knave's own insistence, much less within arms reach of said knave. That would have helped.
    Anson did have a potent bodyguard force with him, while "Parson" was alone. This does beg the question of why the Archons just hovered there and didn't help at all. Why were they there, if not for a situation such as this? Ansom didn't need a force of mercenaries to conduct his acceptance of Parson's surrender, especially if they are so unreliable as to be useless in any contingency which may arise. So perhaps the Archons were there simply to take Parson into custody. Which brings us back to Ansom being in essence alone, which if correct was a rather stupid decision on his part.

    Charlie: Parson says he needs a truce so that he can surrender to you on top of the tower.
    Smart Ansom: Ok. Your Archons can be present to bring him into custody. But, tell him to meet me at the base of the tower instead, since I have no flying forces of my own. I'm the victor, I set the terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    (Another thought occurs to me -- how much did Ansom tell any of the other RCC leaders about the "surrender", and if so did those particular leaders survive? It's possible that, as far as the highest-ranking survivors know, Ansom simply went off on a wild tear of derring-do (again) and got himself croaked.)
    There was a general melee in progress. Then Parson called for a retreat and for Charlie to relay his desire to surrender to Ansom. Then we see the RCC forces in field parade in front of the tower, after the panels where it can be assumed that Ansom is receiving communications from Charlie. I think it's safe to assume that Ansom relayed what was going on to his other warlords, and then they arrayed their troops formally.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by reignofevil View Post
    So basically, People boop about ansom not being dead, and now they are about him BEING dead in a heavily forshadowed way that we all pretty much expected...
    And its a backdoor?
    It's not that he IS dead, it's how he died. The battle that killed Ansom should have taken 2-3 strips and his death should have been portrayed. Not... he's alive in the last panel of one strip.... and then dead in the beginning of the next.

    Do the words 'anticlimactic' mean anything?

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    biggrin Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    And... in spite of what I posted a moment ago...

    I just have to say this one more time:


    Ansom, when the troll fell.

    Last edited by Starwaster; 2009-03-12 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwaster View Post
    Do the words 'anticlimactic' mean anything?
    Yes, it does. Just not what you think it does.

    "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be."
    --Kirien, Seeker's Mask

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Yes, it does. Just not what you think it does.


    No, it means pretty much exactly what I think it does.

    But then again, your reply wasn't actually meant to foster serious discussion, was it.

    Kind of like on the Shadowrun forums when people started arguing about whether phys-ads were overpowered or underpowered.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by TamLin View Post
    And now I'm getting flashbacks of the debate after Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" premiered in 1599...

    Myself, I always fall back in the differentiation between a story that's succesful and a story that's entertaining.
    I can't really speak about your first two examples as I am not particularly familiar with them.

    Shakespeare's "The Tragedie of Julius Caesar", however, is a work of fictionalized history. Of course it's not anticlimactic if you know the story.

    Or is it?

    A couple years ago, I was in a production of Caesar. With a modern audience, just about everybody knows that Caesar was killed by a gang of senators and the famous line 'Et tu, Brutus?'. Does that mean the death scene was anticlimactic? No! It was wonderfully climactic, even though it's only halfway into the play!

    Have you ever seen the play staged? Shakespeare really isn't meant to be read.

    For that matter, the BBC/HBO/RAI show Rome pretty much shows the same time frame as Shakespeare's plays (starts a little earlier than Caesar and ends roughly at the end of Antony and Cleopatra). Is it anticlimactic? Not even to me, even though I was already very familiar with both Shakespeare's and Pluturch's renditions of the story).

    The big mistake (particularly with the play) is in assuming that just because it's named after Caesar, he is the protagonist. It is quite clearly the story of Brutus (though I'm not sure as anyone qualifies as a protagonist).

    You don't get to use the phrase 'gang of senators' every day...
    Last edited by fendrin; 2009-03-12 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJimBoBob View Post
    So perhaps the Archons were there simply to take Parson into custody. Which brings us back to Ansom being in essence alone, which if correct was a rather stupid decision on his part.

    Charlie: Parson says he needs a truce so that he can surrender to you on top of the tower.
    Smart Ansom: Ok. Your Archons can be present to bring him into custody. But, tell him to meet me at the base of the tower instead, since I have no flying forces of my own. I'm the victor, I set the terms.
    "Smart Ansom" would be just as dead after Sizemore came up from under the ground and 4chaned him after Bogroll's surprise attack. And in either case, collapsing the city would have finished Ansom off even if Bogroll failed.

    Even knowing what we know now, it seems to me that Ansom was safer accepting Parson's surrender on the tower near where he had complete air superiority and away from the dirtomancer that he knew was capable of sniping commanders regardless of how many troops they were surrounded by.

    The only way Ansom could have saved himself is if he sent someone else to accept Parson's surrender instead or simply choose not to accept a surrender and 'needlessly' put his soliders at risk, which I believe would be highly uncharacteristic of who Ansom was in the first place.

    For Ansom to believe that Parson or his doppleganger put his life at risk at the tower would require him to assign traits to Parson that he was unwilling to do, namely that Parson/Bogroll was loyal enough to sacrifice their own life to save Gobwin Knob.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    My first reaction was to be a bit disappointed. But after letting it sink in for a while, I must say this is a very strong update. It feels very artistic with great graphics that capture the sad loss of both Bogrol and Ansom. One of the best. It feels very final, but I have a feeling we have a few more turns left.

    And you have to love the uncroaked marbit.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Glome View Post
    "Smart Ansom" would be just as dead after Sizemore came up from under the ground and 4chaned him after Bogroll's surprise attack. And in either case, collapsing the city would have finished Ansom off even if Bogroll failed.

    Even knowing what we know now, it seems to me that Ansom was safer accepting Parson's surrender on the tower near where he had complete air superiority and away from the dirtomancer that he knew was capable of sniping commanders regardless of how many troops they were surrounded by.

    The only way Ansom could have saved himself is if he sent someone else to accept Parson's surrender instead or simply choose not to accept a surrender and 'needlessly' put his soliders at risk, which I believe would be highly uncharacteristic of who Ansom was in the first place.

    For Ansom to believe that Parson or his doppleganger put his life at risk at the tower would require him to assign traits to Parson that he was unwilling to do, namely that Parson/Bogroll was loyal enough to sacrifice their own life to save Gobwin Knob.
    Arguably, if Ansom was using his carpet as a stage just a few feet off the ground, he could have flown up to evade whatever Sizemore tried to do. Essentially, Parson's plan was playing the player, not the game. He used Ansom's overweening pride to take him down. Pretty much the definition of hubris, and the sort of thing that makes 'pride goeth before a fall' downright literal in this case.

    Besides, when have we seen Ansom acting intelligently?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    If properly uncroaked, maybe undead Ansom maintains most of the bonuses he had when living
    Nice idea: Wanda in control of Ansom, when Jilian comes back.
    How would that play out ?
    -HaJo

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Ansom, a lord in the style of old,
    Disliked by others to be told,
    How nobility's dead,
    But so swelled was his head,
    That the fool let himself get Bogroll'd

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwaster View Post
    No, it means pretty much exactly what I think it does.

    But then again, your reply wasn't actually meant to foster serious discussion, was it.
    Well, it was intended as a light-hearted jab, but still...

    You've got a clash of diametrically opposed leader archetypes.
    You've got escalating move/countermove exchanges for page after page.
    You've got a mass battle, complete with musical score, before the gates of a magic tower.
    You've got stunning (and very symbolic), last-minute treachery at the top of the tower, high above the massed army.
    You've got a suicidal assault.
    You've got a deadly plummet from the sky.
    You've got a city collapsing into a volcano.*

    All of this, for someone who isn't, in my humble opinion, even the primary antagonist. What more do you want? Do the Titans have to appear in a rain of fire and sequins?

    My only concern is that it might make the rest of the story--and there's still a bit more to come--seem small and petty by comparison.

    *I find this striking for a reason beyond the sheer scale of it. When the dark fortress collapses, it's usually because the villain has just been killed.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Does anyone know the rules for units leveling up?

    Bogroll leveling up twice might mean one (or both) of two things:

    1) Being the one to finally croak Ansom simply gave him lots of XP, and Erf uses a mechanic where all the XP award for croaking a given unit goes to the one who makes the killing blow, regardless of who did previous damage to the unit or had any other role in its croaking.

    2) The mechanics of leveling takes 'heroism' into account, suggesting that a lot happened between 144 and 145, with Bogroll not only taking out Ansom but also making a particularly heroic last stand against impossible odds. That this is unseen in the comic adds IMO to the sense of the loneliness of Bogroll's fate and the depths of his loyalty to Hamster, as well as the extent to which Parson is sobered by his sacrifice.
    "Vuwcan" avatar from Erfworld, written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJimBoBob View Post
    Anson did have a potent bodyguard force with him, while "Parson" was alone. This does beg the question of why the Archons just hovered there and didn't help at all. Why were they there, if not for a situation such as this?
    The Archons had already moved when Charlie ended his turn. Thus they were all stuck in the Airspace zone with no move. Later, RCC turn begins and Charlie allies with RCC. The Archons are still out of move at this point. In order to move, the turn needs to progress to RCC's next turn (i.e. after GK has moved) whereupon their move is refunded.

    However, we also know that movement within a zone is not counted towards actual movement. Apparently, casting is still possible, since the archons could cast at Wanda during the first loss of the Arkenpliers (suggesting that casting takes no move, but not necessarily no time). ALso, since Wanda was flying, we'll assume she's in the same Airspace zone as the archons.

    Why not zap Bogroll? Perhaps the tower (and the airspace, little a, surrounding it) are considered courtyard and you can't cast across zone boundaries. Perhaps there wasn't time to cast, since it all happened very quickly. Why not cast feather fall or an equivalent on Ansom? Perhaps they're not "that kind" of caster and don't have utility spells.

    There are enough plausible reasons that fit with the facts presented thus far in the storyline that the archons doing nothing is not out of place IMO.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomedPaladin View Post
    Stanley is still going to *BOOP* himself when he sees the smoking crater that was his home.
    I don't think so - he expected GK to go down when he left for faq with Jack, his dragons, and the knights.
    So, the only surprise would be how many losses they managed to inflict on the RCC....
    -HaJo

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    NOOO!! BOGROLL!

    So sad, yet that is how the Twoll wanted to go out!

    As they say, "Pride goeth before a fall" in this case literally for Ansom.
    Man, did Ansom get played or what!?!

    It's not over yet, with Ansom dead, is Charlie still his ally?
    If they are not allies anymore, it's Charlies turn next and he
    has all those Archons floating around, and he wants Parson and all the
    artifacts.

    If they are still allies can Wanda uncwoak all those coalition forces augmenting their defenses even more?

    Can those Archons make it into the dungeon? Technically one of the 3 zones
    of Gobwin Knob is still standing so GK has not fallen yet.

    When is Stanley getting back?

    Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of Erfworld to find out!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Glome View Post
    "Smart Ansom" would be just as dead after Sizemore came up from under the ground and 4chaned him after Bogroll's surprise attack. And in either case, collapsing the city would have finished Ansom off even if Bogroll failed.
    Nope. Flying units can not be attacked by ground units without magic or archery. Ansom was safe from Sizemore (we haven't seen Sizemore throwing bolts of power around, yet) and his golems. And Smart Ansom would not be harmed by the collapse of the tunnels for the same reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    I agree when TB4GK ends, we're probably going to see erfworld: book 2 quest for the arkentools or something equally as inspiring for the title (unless parson goes home with a job well done)
    I wouldn't mind seeing a little hopping back and forth, Thomas Covenant style.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Bogroll is a garrison unit, effectively a defensive structure from a mechanical standpoint. It's not so odd for those to be unusually strong even when their level is low or whatever. (Which they pay for, of course, by not being able to move.) Bogroll's sole purpose, basically, is to be able to beat up on dangerous things and take their hits at the same time.

    Meanwhile, while Ansom was tough, we haven't seen any indication that he was amazingly strong in personal combat -- he was a leader and a warlord, not a heavy unit himself, so at least some of his bonuses from leveling up are going to go more into making his stack stronger rather than, say, being able to beat up Twolls singlehandedly. It was a match-up that favored Bogroll in some ways, even with his lower level.
    Ansom's unit strength is unknown, it's true. But if there was any foreshadowing done by the authors, then he is at least a 9 without the Arcenpliers. Vinny asked Ansom if he was going to go croak Jillian with his bare hands, and Jillian is a 9. Bare hands would mean without the Arcenpliers. I'm not saying that this chat between friends has to have been a means to try to define Ansom's unit strength, but it could have been.
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dragon View Post
    Thing is, you're forgetting when Charlie joined the RCC. When Charlie hadn't joined the RCC, Parson had better than even odds of winning. Once Charlie joined, that was that.
    Close. Without Charlie joining the RCC then GK had a 3:2 chance of surviving the turn, not winning. Huge difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    Do you really need to see [Ansom] splatter? Meanwhile Bogroll is being burned. Do you really need to see his suffering?
    Agreed. In the same way that we didn't need to see the kids legs broken or the mate being pinned to the tree in the latest OotS.
    Quote Originally Posted by glenndo View Post
    All they would have needed to do was get Ansom of his flying carpet, and he would have croaked with everyone else.
    The mice were being harassed by the cat. They held a meeting to see what to do about it. One mouse suggested that if they put a bell around the cat's neck, it would warn the mice when the cat was approaching. All the mice thought that this was a wonderful idea. But....who will bell the cat?
    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Vinny is still alive and so is Jillian. And Jillian is going to br very pissed off and may take command of the RCC through force of will.
    I don't think so. Jillian commands her small troop, but has expressed a dislike for being an heir, a dislike for royalty, and a dislike for the heavy responsibilities of leadership in general. She is happy being a mercenary warlord, and I don't see her rallying the remnants of the RCC under her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatu View Post
    Your second point, that Parson was reluctant to sacrifice Bogroll, is a good one. At the same time, there's no reason why this plan needed Bogroll specifically to work: Parson could have picked any burly unit to be veiled. Bogroll was not portrayed as particularly strong or smart (definitely not smart). Nor have I seen evidence that any of the other Twolls or KISS would have refused a suicidal order (given that it had an obviously beneficial goal), so I don't think loyalty was the issue. Would Parson really hesitate to sacrifice someone less close to him to eliminate Ansom? I'm not sure. But it is at least a valid argument.
    Some magic systems use or at least pay homage to the rules of sympathetic magic. Like with like makes for a stronger magic. Bogroll was essentially Parson's twin brother in twoll form, if Erf magic pays any homage to the principals of sympathy then Bogroll was the candidate who could be given the strongest veil of looking like Parson.
    Last edited by BillyJimBoBob; 2009-03-12 at 04:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Essentially, Parson's plan was playing the player, not the game. He used Ansom's overweening pride to take him down. Pretty much the definition of hubris, and the sort of thing that makes 'pride goeth before a fall' downright literal in this case.

    Besides, when have we seen Ansom acting intelligently?
    I believe it is possible for someone to be overbearingly arrogant, outraged, and not much given to cunning, yet still be smart enough not to stick his neck into a rival's guillotine on a dare. Ansom is hidebound, but he is also a successful Warlord. To me, that implies a base level of competence. If you tie a towel around your eyes, I'd expect he would still be able to see you. If you claim to be King Slately, I'd expect him to look you over once before following your commands. And if you ask to meet him, alone, at the highest point of your fortress to discuss your surrender, I'd expect him to at least think "Huh, how about I bring a few guards."

    It certainly doesn't help that Ansom's acceptance of this monumentally unwise parley was handled almost entirely off-camera. We never did see exactly what Charlie told him, what he told his troops, or what he thought about the arrangement. If Ansom had a concrete reason to expect no treachery (or to believe he was protected against any such attempt), this might have been more palatable.

    But as is, it sure seems like Ansom is gullible enough to fall for any bait you choose to offer him. I find that out of character, even for him.

    -H

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatu View Post
    ...the trap he winds up falling for is absurdly simple. Meeting an untrustworthy enemy all by yourself has an obvious and clear risk - that the person you meet will attack you. ...
    Ok, let's consider this. Ansom has a handful of archons with him, has the Arkenpliers (an immensely powerful artifact), and is, himself, one of the most powerful warlords in Erf (at least as far as we know). He is meeting with a single, low-level warlord (Parson's bonus was only 2, if you check). The force brought to that meeting could probably destroy most of GK's remaining forces, given the opportunity! Ansom lost, and died, not because he was stupid, not because he was just a plot device, but because he was the height of nobility and honor in Erfworld, because he was already badly injured, and because Parson got lucky. Plain and simple. It's not a ridiculously easy ploy, it's one that few people would have seen through (yourself included, I'd bet), especially given the foolamancy disguise and the fact that his forces were more than sufficient to destroy any unit Parson sent. If Parson had attacked Ansom, Parson would have been dead. If Parson had given another unit, such as Bogroll, a disguise, and had that unit attack Ansom, that unit would be...dead. Only the element of surprise, Ansom's wounded state, and the fact that no one expected a suicidal assassination attempt (a move that no "noble" would even consider).

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kreistor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatu View Post
    But as is, it sure seems like Ansom is gullible enough to fall for any bait you choose to offer him. I find that out of character, even for him.
    Wizard's First Rule: People will believe any lie they want to be true or fear to be true.

    In Ansom's case, he'll believe any lie that proves his superiority. Parson surrendering would fit that bill.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatu View Post
    I believe it is possible for someone to be overbearingly arrogant, outraged, and not much given to cunning, yet still be smart enough not to stick his neck into a rival's guillotine on a dare. Ansom is hidebound, but he is also a successful Warlord. To me, that implies a base level of competence. If you tie a towel around your eyes, I'd expect he would still be able to see you. If you claim to be King Slately, I'd expect him to look you over once before following your commands. And if you ask to meet him, alone, at the highest point of your fortress to discuss your surrender, I'd expect him to at least think "Huh, how about I bring a few guards."

    It certainly doesn't help that Ansom's acceptance of this monumentally unwise parley was handled almost entirely off-camera. We never did see exactly what Charlie told him, what he told his troops, or what he thought about the arrangement. If Ansom had a concrete reason to expect no treachery (or to believe he was protected against any such attempt), this might have been more palatable.

    But as is, it sure seems like Ansom is gullible enough to fall for any bait you choose to offer him. I find that out of character, even for him.

    -H
    Really? Cause I look at the other traps (rescuing Jillian, Donut of Doom) and Ansom going up the wall "to make a weak spot" and almost getting captured by Wanda and I see a brave, daring, naive, shortsighted leader.

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    DevilDan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

    Yes, Ansom got snookered. It happened many times when leaders, even capable ones, fought conquerors who had a vaster store of knowledge to call upon or when they presumed that the conquerors would be more honorable.

    Look at Lempira, at Atahualpa, and at Moctezuma II.

    (For those unfamiliar with Lempira's story, from Wikipedia:
    The Spanish, on instruction from their Governor, Francisco de Montejo, attacked him at Cerquin, near Gracias a Dios. Lempira, according to Herrera, retreated to a fortified hill top where he resisted the Spanish for many months. Finally, the Spanish lured him out to talk, and a concealed Spanish soldier with an arquebus shot and killed him. On seeing this, Herrera reports, the Lenca surrendered.
    Quo vadis?

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