Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

[Trixie]

"Smart Ansom" would be just as dead after Sizemore came up from under the ground and 4chaned him after Bogroll's surprise attack. And in either case, collapsing the city would have finished Ansom off even if Bogroll failed.

Yup. It is very Un-Parsony to make a plan that will succeed only with a particular enemy move. I think he had plans for all other occasions.

Even knowing what we know now, it seems to me that Ansom was safer accepting Parson's surrender on the tower near where he had complete air superiority and away from the dirtomancer that he knew was capable of sniping commanders regardless of how many troops they were surrounded by.

Yup. He, as far as he saw it, already won, all while trying to prove his nobility.

The only way Ansom could have saved himself is if he sent someone else to accept Parson's surrender instead or simply choose not to accept a surrender and 'needlessly' put his soliders at risk, which I believe would be highly uncharacteristic of who Ansom was in the first place.

And I think that if Ansom tried to pull that, he would pretty much lose all of his remaining prestige on the spot. He was already viewed as incompetent, if he send someone else he wouldn't prove that nobility is better, he would have appeared to be afraid, or, even worse, he would transmit message that this victory is worthless if he hadn't even bothered to confirm it in person.

[Sky_Schemer]

Fundamentally, Parson's plan to kill Ansom had nothing to do with his plan to blow up the city. He could execute either one independently of the other.

Not true at all, and this is the key point here. Parson had suggested collapsing tunnels several strips ago, but Sizemore suggested that Ansom would just walk in and claim the rubble. For this idea to work at all, Ansom had to be croaked first. He could not do one without the other.

[DevilDan]

Parson, what is best in life?
To render your enemy incapable or unwilling to take your garrison.

He would always want to keep an option to take out Ansom as part of cutting down bonuses and targeting leadership; but Ansom was also a known quantity. Better the devil you know, right? When all boop breaks loose, you move on multiple fronts, as Parson did.

Parson adapted, planned for contingencies, made quick decisions, used his brains, and played to win.

[scotchmonger]

Wizard's First Rule: People will believe any lie they want to be true or fear to be true.

In Ansom's case, he'll believe any lie that proves his superiority. Parson surrendering would fit that bill.

I was figuring someone else might bring this up but it seems like Ansom might not have had a choice in attempting the tower capture.

Parson is bound to provide Mathmancy calculations to Charlie as part of the deal he made to save Stanley. Everything that's happened since then makes it seem that Parson has no choice in fulfilling his part of the bargain as long as Charlie doesn't breach first. Especially since the first two calculations he asks for are to Parson's disadvantage (Can I beat you with this force? no? ok, how much more do I need to win?)

On Page 130 Panel 3, Parson guesses that Ansom is bound to capture him. Bound being the operative word -- If Ansom fails or refuses, he is in breach of his latest contract with Charlie.

I think Parson used a confirmed but well-educated guess about the contract - based on his own dealings with Charlie to put Ansom in a compromised situation.

Even if he would have normally been suspicious of Parson's motive's, he really can't afford to miss a capture opportunity with Charlie's contract hanging over his head.

The mechanics of magical contracts or bindings aren't explicit but everything so far suggests that they are potent -- powerful enough for Charlie to base his fees upon at least. Since he says he's in a no-lose situation, I'm guessing he has reason to believe they can be enforced even if we don't know exactly how.

[Thayus]

Oh the mighty men of Jetstone
Their testes have not yet grown!
Their King stays home and gets stoned
While their prince goes out and gets pwned!

-Thayus

[Jeivar]

Hm. So Ansom is done for. I personally didn't really have anything against the guy, not in a morally ambiguous setting like Erf, but the plot must move on.

Now I'm wondering what Jillian's new plan is going to be. The man she loved and followed is dead, the woman she loved has proven to be a manipulative, sinister liar, her employers have been devastated, Faq is still unclaimed, and if Stanley manages to rebuild his forces somewhat, she has no realistic chance of getting to him. I guess she could go back to freelance mercenary-work, but that would require her to either leave the plot for a while, or for the comic to do a time-jump, and catch up with all the surviving characters after a period of shaky peace.

[abb3w]

It seems a missed opportunity; the troops in the courtyard are calling "Burn Beast!" when there is a perfect opportunity for them to be screaming....

"KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!"

It would have made for a more fitting epitaph.

Perhaps it might be changed before the volume reaches print...?

[Wakky]

A few people in this thread and others previous have mentioned the possibility of the Arkenpliers falling into Wanda's hands, and her becoming attuned to them. However, I find that kind of hard to believe.

Wanda is a Croakamancer. Why would she be attuned to a weapon that destroys uncroaked at a touch? If she dramatically gestures with it it could disintegrate one of her own Warlords!



**SPOILER ALERT!**



I think it's much more likely that although the Pliers fall into Parson's hands, Jillian is the one who's actually attuned to the Arkenpliers. That way, as she's pursuing her revenge against Parson and Stanley, a crucial plot point would be Jillian fighting Wanda for control of the Pliers, with Jillian eventually winning them, along with a crucial turn in a battle.

Anyway, having both the Arkenpliers and the Arkenhammer on Stanley's side would make him overpowered, so that situation cannot last.

[Fez]

This was discussed briefly in prior threads but,

Also, remember from the klog about zones only light units can operate in the tunnels. Its unclear if Archons as flying units count as light units, so moving down there might nullify Charlie. Similarly most of the Jetstone lights are gone from the last tunnel encounter. This will deprive the RCC of its heavy units and force it to depend on the other coalition members who may be less excited, lower morale, and have already lost their commanders in some cases.

I'm wondering if there is some secret Parson plans to share with Charlie as well to try and influence him, but I can't quite come up with what info Parson has gotten recently.

So what 'zone' is the dungeons? I presume its the garrison essentially? The last fortified zone? Airspace is controlled currently by the RNC via Charlie. The Outer Walls are gone, but would be in control of the RNC. Sizemore is collapsing the tunnels. That leaves the garrison as the sole remaining zone for the GK troops? If there are no more outer walls standing do they still count as a zone? Same for tunnels. I would assume they must, otherwise a town could make itself 'invulnerable' to ground based attacks by having neither tunnel nor wall.

Still, if Parson via Stanley's return can take away the 'total control' of airspace from RNC, could that create a stalemate? Charlie likes pure win engagements, if he has to bear the primary cost of finishing off GK, is this all still worth it to him? He certainly doesn't want to own GK and become the next Stanley that everyone teams up against.

[Goshen]

I was under the impression that Sizemore was cooking off pre-made spell defense's that allowed for collapses. Much like Wanda did to all those fliers. Now I wonder how many survivors are left in the ruble.

I think you mean "rubble". With the current Russian banking crisis, the Ruble is not a sufficiently hard currency to kill anyone by landing on them.

[Subtext]

Oof...someone should've shown Ansom that picture before actually laying siege...

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word...on-the-cat.jpg

[Lamech]

I think you mean "rubble". With the current Russian banking crisis, the Ruble is not a sufficiently hard currency to kill anyone by landing on them.

lol
I thought something was wrong with my attempt as spelling "rubble". I think the mind-reading capabilities of my spellchecker must not be working. How odd... maybe I should stop relying on it so much.

[Ovaltine Patrol]

I'm still a little surprised that Charlie let it happen. Even though Ansom had not paid for magic security, Charlie himself more or less knew it was a trap. I know he's got an agenda, but surely he depends on his reputation to get his contracts and at the prices he secures. I don't think other potential employers are going to look at this and say "He adhered so closely to the contract that it contributed to his previous employer getting killed, that's the kind of loyalty I admire in a mercenary!"

Unless of course Charlie is escalating things to the point where he never has to play mercenary again.

[RedXian]

This isn't over yet...

Is it not Charlie's Turn next?

[VariaVespasa]

We're no strangers to warfare
You have your rules, and so do I
My lord's survival's what I'm thinking of
You would have simply croaked any other guy

I... just want to crush you into the ground
But you need to understand

never gonna let you up
never gonna let you out
never gonna let you hurt my lord hamster

And I'm gonna make you die
With no chance to say goodbye
And your Jillian's gonna cry 'cuz I broke you.

Did you just Rick-Roll this thread?? Someone kill this man, he must not be allowed to perpetrate such evil again! :P

[Partywhipple]

Let's hope it's for real. I was never impressed with bogroll so I am happy to lose him killing Ansom. Woot!

[Estelindis]

Well, that was something of an anti-climax...

[Aquillion]

Anyway, having both the Arkenpliers and the Arkenhammer on Stanley's side would make him overpowered, so that situation cannot last.

That implies all sorts of assumptions. You're assuming Wanda (and, I suppose, Parson) will remain on Stanley's side indefinitely, you're assuming Stanley will survive, and so forth.

And even with all that, there's no reason to think that Stanley will be any more invulnerable with two Arkentools than he was with one Arkentool. The thing about giving twice as much power to an idiot is that it just lets them fail twice as fast.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Well, that was something of an anti-climax...

Of course, I just see Ansom's death as part of a building climax . . .

[Fjolnir]

@ Varia no, he's Bogroll'd the forums :-)

I think charlie is going to get more proactive since as people already have said, he's completely BOOPED himself as far as reputation goes.

I wouldn't be surprised if WE find out the truth about Faq here before jillian does IF stanley returns after this current turn ends

this is the end of the RCC for now, certain foes may return such as vinny and jillian but I don't know on which side they'll be on

[Lombard]

Something just seems off with this, Ansom's gonna get rezzed somehow, maybe the only way they attune to you is if you're dead (but not undead) or something and you get rezzed when it happens.

[archon_huskie]

War is one thing, but legends are another.

I imagine they'll make legends about Ansom, the way we Americans make legends about Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. The fact that these romantic, dashing figures were eventually beaten by prosaic, unromantic realists is something that is only remembered in history books.

Well you are obviously from the South. In the North they are vile villianous men. They did have after all lead open insurrection and betrayed their country.

[Ragn Charran]

This isn't over yet...

Is it not Charlie's Turn next?

No, unless he breaks alliance, which may be difficult/impossible to do depending on the terms of the contract. As it now stands night will fall, and GK gets first turn in the morning.

[Ravenwind]

Re: the Julius Caesar comparison. . . .Shakespeare this ain't.

Julius Caesar is assassinated in Act III, Scene 1 of the tragedy. It is, structurally, the climax of the five-act play, because all the action leading up to that point is the decision to act, and all the action after the assassination is the reaction to the act. A group of Concerned Citizens, good "law-abiding" folk, surround a man and murder him in cold blood, after one man agonizes over the decision (Brutus) and then another man seeks retribution and justice for the dead (Antony).

This?

Well, let's ask what all the action of the comic has been building toward. The defense or total destruction of Gobwin Knob. Yep, we got that in the panels at the end. I enjoyed the implication that the volcano's about to be lit, too. Quite nice.

But Ansom is treated as little more than a sidenote, and I, personally, never saw him as a villain. For me, if anyone is the villain in this piece, it's the cowardly and contemptible Tool, who took over city after city only to lose them, treats his underlings with no courtesy or concern and usually very little friendship. . . . Ansom may have been arrogant, but he did have more humanity to him than Stanley. And that makes the crowing over his death in these forums really rather sad.

I'd rather a gentleman, a nobleman, a human, than a user and a coward and a thief, y'know?

Be that as it may, structurally, the climax may be the scene of destruction and devastation as Parson pulls the plug.

The resolution, however, may be the way in which the real villain of the story is dealt with.

Just some thoughts, folks.

[TamLin]

My point with the comparison to "Julius Caesar", "No Country for Old Men", and "The Sopranos" is that anticlimaxes vary in quality and form. Calling this an anticlimax, either as a way of condeming or defending it, is pretty irrelevant (although it's the kneejerk reaction; I did the very same thing). What matters isn't whether it's anticlimactic but whether it's well-written, properly executed, and appropriate to the story. Do we find this anticlimax believable? Does it add or detract from the comic as a whole to consider that these characters died not because of rules or in-game powers but because of the simple laws of physics? Does hearing about it from Parson's point of view immerse us in his experience, or alienate us from the rest of the story? For that matter, are happy or pissed off that these characters were singled out to die at all? These issues (which are being discussed) are more important than whether the comic is anticlimactic. If we're happy with the execution, then it doesn't really matter what device was or was not used.

[The Old Hack]

CLIMAX: Death Star, exterior. Luke Skywalker's battered X-Wing dashes madly for his one hope, a longshot aimed at a small exhaust port that is the sole vulnerable point of the Death Star. Darth Vader in his Tie Fighter opens fire on him, and JUST THEN, Han Solo and Chewbacca in the Millennium Falcon show up to save Luke and let him take his desperate shot after all.

ANTI-CLIMAX: Sunnydale Mall, Interior. Buffy is confronting the Judge, an ancient, all but unstoppable evil.

Judge: You fool. It takes the power of an entire army to stop me.
Buffy: That was then. This is now. *readies rocket launcher*
Judge: What's that do?

***** BOOOOOOOOOM *****

What matters is not if it is climactic or anti-climactic. Both are valid. The anti-climax in Buffy works because the setup makes it both dramatic and funny.

[Chadwick]

Well you are obviously from the South. In the North they are vile villianous men. They did have after all lead open insurrection and betrayed their country.

Thats news to me, mostly as a Northerner I hear how honorable these two men were.

Remember our founding fathers lead an open insurrection and betrayed their country (England) to create this one.

[DCR]

Thats news to me, mostly as a Northerner I hear how honorable these two men were.

Remember our founding fathers lead an open insurrection and betrayed their country (England) to create this one.

Taxes and won the fight; slavery/secession and lost.
Honorable men, I agree... but they still fought for the wrong cause.

Anyway, I'm kinda curious how the siege of Gobwin Knob ends. I'm guessing dwagon harassment and renewable undead resource disheartens the coalition... which has partially broken up already (page 93). Not broken up in terms of working with each other, but broken up in that unled stacks automatically attack, I b'lieve.

[Kilkrazy]

Bogroll killing Ansom. Ansom had already taken a lot of hits from previous fighting, shown by his ragged cape.

Why didn't the Archons save him from falling? Perhaps it wasn't in their contract, perhaps under the game rules a fall takes place within one action phase, and they can't react immediately.

Rebuilding the city. If the dungeon is intact, is it possible that the city will rebuild itself overnight in the same way that wounded units recover automatically?

[Kilkrazy]

The next stage of the siege.

Most of the besieging forces have been lost in the city's collapse. The coalition was already unstable before this disaster and will probably fall apart.

If Charlescomm's contract was with the coalition this would release him, though it may have been with Jetstone directly, in which case the next in line of command of the Jetstone forces will presumably be able to direct the Archons. However it's clear that ultimate authority rests with the head of a faction and is delegated to some extent to lower level commanders. The level of delegation may not go further down than Ansom, which would leave the Archons out of command and control, yet possibly unable to proceed with an attack on their own initiative.

Stanley will shortly arrive with a strong force of dwagons, probably pursued by the Vampire faction and Jillian. Depending on timing and the actions of the Archons, there will be an aerial battle over the city, which Stanley needs to win since this is his last capital. I'm assuming the dwagons and Archons can't go underground.