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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    The Falling Star Discipline focuses on quick strikes from afar. The longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, composite shortbow, greatbow, and composite greatbow are the preferred weapons of the Falling Star discipline (and indeed are most of the weapons usable with the discipline, considering most maneuvers require ranged attacks).Spot is the key skill for Falling Star, representing precise vision and supreme accuracy. Falling Star maneuvers are usable by the crusader and swordsage.

    Maneuver and Stance List
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    One
    Eagle's Eyes: Stance -- increase range, accuracy, and damage.
    Flaming Arrow: Strike -- arrows light on fire.
    Phantom Arrow: Strike -- arrows can strike ghosts and other incorporeal creatures.
    Lightning Bolt: Strike -- arrows spark with electricity.

    Two
    Multiple Shot: Boost -- gain extra attack at BAB; take -2 penalty to BAB
    Dummy Shot: Counter -- make feint against opponent to gain temporary AC
    Blindside: Boost -- cause opponent to become flat-footed

    Three
    Sure Shot: Strike -- one arrow gains +20 to hit and deals extra damage
    Take Aim: Strike -- resolve one arrow as touch attack
    Reciprocating Shot: Counter -- deal damage to opponent equal to damage received
    Phantom Hail: Stance -- do not need bow or arrows; all arrow gain ghost touch property

    Four
    Pilot Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains +20 to hit and deals extra damage; successive arrows are at +5 to hit and deal extra damage
    Trick Shot: Counter -- make immediate disarm attempt against attacker
    Exploding Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains flaming burst and keen properties and deals extra damage

    Five
    Strafe: Stance -- gain the ability to deal more damage when you move
    Blindstrike: Strike -- blind opponent with successful attack

    Six
    Elemental Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains shocking burst, flaming burst, freezing burst, and keen properties and dales extra damage
    Endless Lightning: Stance -- all arrows gain shocking burst and keen properties

    Seven
    Hail of Arrows: Strike -- make full attack; gain three extra attacks
    Mindcrush: Strike -- render opponent blind, deaf, silenced, and shaken

    Eight
    Skyfire: Strike -- attack one foe; deal extra fire and electrical damage to that opponent and all within 30'

    Nine
    Obliterate: Strike -- deal extra damage; add bane and slaying properties to one arrow


    Maneuvers and Stances
    Blindside
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    As part of this maneuver, you make a single attack against one opponent. If you strike that opponent, they become flat-footed until their next turn.

    Blindstrike
    Falling Star (Strike) [None]
    Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

    As part of this maneuver, you make a singe ranged attack against one opponent. If you strike that opponent, they take an additional 5d6 points of damage and must make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wisdom modifier) or be rendered permanently blind.

    Dummy Shot
    Falling Star (Counter)
    Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: Attacking creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    As an immediate action, you may feint against a creature attacking you. Roll your Bluff against his opposed Sense Motive. For each two points you beat his check by, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your armor class against that attack.

    Eagle's Eyes
    Falling Star (Stance)
    Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    You gain superior range and accuracy for as long as you remain in this stance. The amount of increase is determined by your ranks in Spot.

    {table=head]Spot Ranks | Effect
    4-8 | +1 to ranged attack rolls; maximum range x1.5
    9-13 | +2 to ranged attack rolls; maximum range x2
    14-18 | +3 to ranged attack rolls; +1d4 to ranged damage; maximum range x2.5
    19+ | +5 to ranged attack rolls; +2d4 to ranged damage; maximum range x3[/table]

    Elemental Arrow
    Falling Star (Boost) [Fire, Cold, Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6
    Prerequisite: Two Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full-attack action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One or more opponents
    Duration: Instantaneous

    As part of this maneuver, you make a full-attack. Each arrow you fire this turn deals an additional 1d6 fire damage, 1d6 cold damage, and 1d6 electrical damage. In addition, all arrows you fire this round gain the flaming burst, freezing burst and shocking burs properties, and double their threat range as if by the Improved Critical feat.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Endless Lightning
    Falling Star (Stance) [Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6
    Prerequisite: Two Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    While in this stance, all your arrows gain the shocking burst property. In addition, each of your arrows deals an additional 2d6 points of electrical damage.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Exploding Arrows
    Falling Star (Boost) [Fire]
    Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star Maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn

    Your arrows become wreathed in flame and explode on contact. For the rest of your turn, your ranged attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of fire damage per initiator level and gain the flaming burst and keen properties.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Flaming Arrow
    Falling Star (Boost) [Fire]
    Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn

    A moment of focus is all it takes to cause your arrows to burst into flame. When you initiate this maneuver, fire trickles down the curve of your bow and leaps to your arrows when you fire them. For the rest of your turn, your ranged attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of fire damage, +1 point per initiator level.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Hail of Arrows
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 7, Swordsage 7
    Prerequisite: Three Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One or more opponents
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You make a ranged full-attack as part of this maneuver. After your attack, you also make an additional three attacks: the first at your highest attack bonus, the second a five lower than the first, and the third at ten lower than the first. All attacks you make during this round, including the extra attacks granted by this maneuver, are made with a -2 penalty.

    Lightning Arrow
    Falling Star (Boost) [Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn

    A moment of focus is all it takes to cause your arrows to spark with electricity. When you initiate this maneuver, electricity cascades down the curve of your bow and leaps to your arrows when you fire them. For the rest of your turn, your ranged attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of electrical damage, +1 point per initiator level.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Lightning Fury
    Falling Star (Boost) [Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star Maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of round

    When you initiate this maneuver, you may immediately move up to your speed. This does not count as your normal movement for the round, so you can immediately move again or perform a full-attack. If you do attack this round, all your attacks deal an additional 2d6 points of electrical damage.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Mindcrush
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 7, Swordsage 7
    Prerequisite: Three Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One opponent
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fort and Will partial

    As part of this maneuver, make a ranged attack against one opponent. This attack deals an additional 8d6 points of damage. In addition, if the arrow strikes, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wis modifier) or be rendered permanently blind and deaf. He must also make a Will save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wis modifier) or be rendered silenced and shaken for 1d4+4 rounds.

    Multiple Shot
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous

    When you use this strike, you focus with supernatural ability and fire off an extra shot during this round. As part of this maneuver, you take a full attack action and make your normal ranged attacks. However, you also make one additional attack this round at your highest attack bonus. All the attacks you make this round, including the extra attack granted by this maneuver, are made with a -2 penalty.

    Obliterate
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 9, Swordsage 9
    Prerequisite: Four Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One opponent
    Duration: Instantaneous

    When you initiate this maneuver, you immediately make an attack against one opponent. This attack deals an additional 10d6 points of damage. In addition, this arrow is considered to have the bane and slaying properties for a type of your choice.

    Phantom Arrow
    Falling Star (Boost) [Force]
    Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn

    A moment of focus wreathes your arrows in cascading force energy. When you initiate this maneuver, your bow and arrows become surrounded with force energy. For the rest of your turn, your ranged attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of force damage and can strike incorporeal creatures.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Phantom Hail
    Falling Star (Stance) [Force]
    Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    While in this stance, you manifest a bow and arrows of force. This bow is a longbow, and the arrows deal damage as normal. In addition, all your attacks while in this stance gain the ghost touch ability.

    Finally, all your arrows ignore wind of all sorts, including magical effects such as [/i]Wind Wall[/i].

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Pilot Arrow
    Falling Star (Strike) [Force]
    Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: Two Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One opponent
    Duration: 3 rounds

    Your first arrow becomes charged with energy, drawing the rest of your arrows towards it. When you initiate this maneuver, you make a ranged full-attack on one enemy. Your first arrow receives a +10 to hit and deals an extra 4d6 points of damage. If the first arrow hits, the rest of your attacks this round and any attacks you make against that opponent for the next three rounds receive a +5 to hit and deal an additional 3d6 points of damage.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Reciprocating Shot
    Falling Star (Counter) [Force]
    Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: Attacking creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude half

    You may initiate this maneuver immediately after taking damage. When you initiate this maneuver, you immediately make a single attack at your highest attack bonus at the creature that struck you. If you hit, your attack deals an amount of damage equal to your maximum hit points minus your current hit points. If the targeted creature makes a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wisdom modifier), they instead take half that amount.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Skyfire
    Falling Star (Strike) [Fire, Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 8, Swordsage 8
    Prerequisite: Three Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One opponent
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half; see text

    When initiating this maneuver, you make a ranged attack against one opponent. If this attack hits, your opponent takes an additional 3d6 fire damage and 3d6 electrical damage. In addition, all creatures within 30' of the struck creature (including the target) take 4d6 fire damage and 4d6 electrical damage from great gouts of fire and lightning bolts that fall from the sky. A successful Reflex save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wisdom modifier) halves this damage.

    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

    Strafe
    Falling Star (Stance)
    Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5
    Prerequisite: Two Falling Star maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    While in this stance, your land speed and ranged damage increase according to your ranks in Spot.

    {table=head] Spot Ranks | Effect
    12-14 | Land speed +10'; Skirmish (+1d6/+1 AC)
    15-17 | Land speed +15'; Skirmish (+2d6/+1 AC)
    18-20 | Land speed +20'; Skirmish (+2d6/+2 AC)
    21+ | Land speed +30'; Skirmish (+3d6/+2 AC)[/table]

    Sure Shot
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    With a moment of focus, you pinpoint with deadly accuracy the best location to hit your opponent. As part of this maneuver, you make a single ranged attack. This attack is made at your highest attack bonus, and you receive a +20 to hit with this attack. If this attack hits, you deal an additional 4d6 points of damage.

    Take Aim
    Falling Star (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    With a moment of focus, you find a chink in your opponent's armor that is large enough for you to get a series of arrows through. As part of this maneuver, you make a full-attack with a ranged weapon. These attacks are resolved as touch attacks and deal an additional 2d6 points of damage per arrow.

    Trick Shot
    Falling Star (Counter)
    Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Weapon range
    Target: Attacking creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You may activate this maneuver immediately before being attacked. You make an immediate disarm attempt against your attacker that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You do not provoke an reciprocal disarm if your attempt fails. If your attempt succeeds, your opponent may choose to continue their attack unarmed.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    What, no love? :'(

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Alas, I do not possess the Tome of Battle. I would not know where to begin.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Iames, the CoP
    Alas, I do not possess the Tome of Battle. I would not know where to begin.
    Unfortunate. It's a good book.

    ...mildly off topic: you voted on the contests yet?

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Nope. Off I go.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    ...These are the Nine Disciplines. Some whisper of a secret Tenth Path, but I think such rumors are no more than bard's tales. Pay them no attention, my student!

    Actually, I think this discipline is WAY overpowered. Some also use odd mechanics as well.

    Blindstrike has a very high saving throw, the method to determine it is also wierd. Manueuvers that allow saves use the same method as spells, it just isn't spelled out. Wis modifier is still good, though.

    Dummy Shot uses another skill other than the key skill. I've never seen that before, but that does'nt make it bad. Niether the Swordsage nor the Crusader has Bluff as a class skill.

    Elemental Arrow is overpowered. Does the bonus elemental damage stack with the properties the weapon gets? As written, you get +9d6 of various elemental damage, with an additional +6d10 on crits, the number of which has just been doubled thanks to keen, for all attacks in a full-attack routine at level 11.

    Endless Lightning is even worse. It's a stance that gives +4d6 electricity per attack, with an additional +2d10 on crits, and free keen. As compared to, say, Fiery Assault (+1d6).

    There are other bad ones on the list as well. I would've avoided using multiple elements, but that's just a matter of taste. Quite a few of the maneuvers from the descriptions (most of the boosts, I didn't notice any others) never made it to the list at the top.

    Just take these opinions with a grain of salt. I'm probably not the best to determine if something's balanced or not.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    I'm gonna work backwards, PLEASE READ NUMBER 3. You got Filter Pwned.

    Level 9
    Obliterate: Strike -- deal extra damage; add bane and slaying properties to one arrow
    This is a very powerful ability, stronger then the solars consistent ability ("+28 ranged (2d6+7/3 plus slaying)"). Assuming you shot one of these every two rounds (since the swordsage takes a full round to get 1 manuever back), over 6 turns the solar would do 12d6+42 with 6 chances of instant kill. you would do 30d6+x with 3 chances of instant kill.

    Level 8
    Skyfire: Strike -- attack one foe; deal extra fire and electrical damage to that opponent and all within 30'
    This one looks okay, but the DC is pretty stupid. How would your character having a higher spot check make it harder for them to avoid?

    Level 7
    Hail of Arrows: Strike -- make full attack; gain three extra attacks
    Mindcrush: Strike -- render opponent blind, deaf, silenced, and shaken
    Hail of Arrows looks fine (when there are things like avalanche of blades).
    Mind crush has 2 saves required? both with two save or die/save or suck effects? Way to good. Especially the permanent part.

    Level 6
    Elemental Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains shocking burst, flaming burst, freezing burst, and keen properties and dales extra damage
    Endless Lightning: Stance -- all arrows gain shocking burst and keen properties
    Funny thing is here you say one arrow, in the description you say all arrows. but by this time you should already have at least one of the burst abilities on the item.Ranged Weapons cannot be keen.
    Endless Lightning - Once again Ranged Weapons cannot be keen. Fine other than that.

    Level 5
    Strafe: Stance -- gain the ability to deal more damage when you move
    Blindstrike: Strike -- blind opponent with successful attack
    Strafe looks fine, as you are not giving much of the scouts skirmish ability.
    Blindstrike - There's that permeant blind again, I don't like that as resurrection doesn't heal it. The only way to possibly heal it is reincarnation, miracle, wish, or true resurrection.

    Level 4
    Pilot Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains +20 to hit and deals extra damage; successive arrows are at +5 to hit and deal extra damage
    Trick Shot: Counter -- make immediate disarm attempt against attacker
    Exploding Arrow: Strike -- one arrow gains flaming burst and keen properties and deals extra damage
    Pilot Arrow reminds me of true strike, but better making it worth level 4. Also its +10 in your other description
    Trick Shot, Disarming from a range? From the description you can disarm the archer 80 feet away. BROKEN.
    Exploding Arrow looks fine except for the Keen

    Level 3
    Sure Shot: Strike -- one arrow gains +20 to hit and deals extra damage
    Take Aim: Strike -- resolve one arrow as touch attack
    Reciprocating Shot: Counter -- deal damage to opponent equal to damage received
    Phantom Hail: Stance -- do not need bow or arrows; all arrow gain ghost touch property
    Sure Shot: If True Strike is fair, this is.
    Take Aim: hehe
    With a moment of focus, you find a RACIAL SLURS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE in your opponent's armor that is large enough for you to get a series of arrows through
    . Additional damage and touch attack at such a low level? when brilliant energy is a +4 enhancement?
    Phantom Hail - Ghost touch, And DEFEAT MY PRECIOUS WIND WALL? Might be the Wizard Fan Boy talking but I say this is a bit much.

    Level 2
    Multiple Shot: Boost -- gain extra attack at BAB; take -2 penalty to BAB
    Dummy Shot: Counter -- make feint against opponent to gain temporary AC
    Blindside: Boost -- cause opponent to become flat-footed
    Multiple Shot Looks fine
    Dummy Shot needs a maxium
    Blindside Looks fine

    Level 1
    Eagle's Eyes: Stance -- increase range, accuracy, and damage.
    Flaming Arrow: Strike -- arrows light on fire.
    Phantom Arrow: Strike -- arrows can strike ghosts and other incorporeal creatures.
    Lightning Bolt: Strike -- arrows spark with electricity.
    Eagle's Eyes: This looks fine to me.
    Flaming Arrow is fine
    Phantom Arrow: Do you mean ghost touch?
    Lightning Bolt: Renamed to lightning arrow in your description, looks fine.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Excuse my ignorance, but; wha......?

    This seems like a ranged version of some obscure, insanely powerful monk prestige class abilities that only elves can take but they're the only ones who live long enough to become powerful enough to be able to attain such high levels of control. I have no idea where the crusader and word sage are from, but from a pure balance point of view, assuming spell levels 1-9 with similar spells per day, this does seem more powerful than I would expect someone like you to make it, when it's so obviously unbalanced.

    Don't mind my grammar, it's late.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Its based off tome of battle. I believe I actually did a good job critiquing it.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Your modesty knows no bounds, Gralamin. And yeah, I have to admit, your critique was pretty..very..thourough.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Thanks :P, Don't worry my ego will be cut down either in Random Banter or By My Friends.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Fax,
    Are you known as Edea on the wizard boards?

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post

    Level 6

    Funny thing is here you say one arrow, in the description you say all arrows. but by this time you should already have at least one of the burst abilities on the item.Ranged Weapons cannot be keen.
    Endless Lightning - Once again Ranged Weapons cannot be keen. Fine other than that.

    Level 4

    Pilot Arrow reminds me of true strike, but better making it worth level 4. Also its +10 in your other description
    Trick Shot, Disarming from a range? From the description you can disarm the archer 80 feet away. BROKEN.
    Exploding Arrow looks fine except for the Keen
    Having read the Keen description, I can find no where were it says that ranged weapons cannot be keen. The only limiting factor is that keen can only be applied to piercing or slashing weapons... and most ranged weaponry is piercing. Pleas,e point out my error, as I am probably in the wrong here.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words ... English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

    "The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Well, unlike everyone else, I like it. Of course, I have no experience with the ToB classes, but most of these do seem a little stronger than the standards.

    As for beating wind wall, who freakin cares? That spell is ridiculous anyway, any archer class should be getting something to get around it, if it hasn't been removed to begin with. At least the fulff on this one is good. And it helps solve the problem of endless arrows, and the look of suprise when a bow pops out of nowhere and starts raining fire on people has to be great.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    I like it.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Me too. Don't change it so you can spite the critics.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Although I am in the "it is a more powerful than the other 9 disciplines camp", the base idea is sound and awesome. And I'd personally say keen can apply to ranged weapons, as long as they are piercing and slashing.

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Glittersamas View Post
    Fax,
    Are you known as Edea on the wizard boards?
    No? Should I be?

    Also: I will make commments about changes et al later. I have to run now.

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    No? Should I be?
    ...
    Then you should see this. I really hope edea didn't take your creation and claim it as her own. Though there are differences, there are enough similarities to make one wonder.

    http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost....4&postcount=26

    Some others have ran with it (and given her credit). I hope this is just a crazy coincidence.

    http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771597

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Name's the same, fluff and crunch are very different. Not worried.

    Also: Let me defend my works:

    A lot of the maneuvers in this discipline look game-shattering, but they're really not. This gives a way for archers to beat wind wall, for them to get extra damage, and for them to incapacitate opponents from afar.

    In specific instances, this Discipline also allows for things you cannot normally do with archery, even with feat expenditure.

    Let me also clarify a few key difficulties: Obliterate is not as powerful as it seems. Compare it to the Tiger Claw 9th ability, Feral Death Blow, which deals more damage, includes a more difficult save-or-die, and doesn't require you to know the type of your foe.

    Maneuvers that involve permanent blindness/deafness (and pretty much anything else that does) can be cured through heal or remove blindness/deafness, both of which are very accessible at the point when the maneuverist will be using these abilities.

    Take Aim seems good, until you realize that you have to forego your iterative attacks to use it (of which you'll have two, maybe three, four with rapid shot).

    I do need to go through and fix the tables and some of the text (in particular, clarify the "keen" to simply read "doubled critical threat range"). Any other suggestions?

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Name's the same, fluff and crunch are very different. Not worried.
    Cool then. Umm... I was wondering. Do you think I could put your maneuvers on that site? I'd give you credit and a link which should get you more eyes and feedback. If not that's cool.

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    While I'm at it, let me take a look here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    ...
    Blindstrike
    ...
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

    As part of this maneuver, you make a singe ranged attack against one opponent. If you strike that opponent, they take an additional 5d6 points of damage and must make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Spot ranks + Wisdom modifier) or be rendered permanently blind.
    Two things. I see a reflex save here (turn your head just in time to avoid blindness), and I think the DC should be 15 + Dex mod. (or wis mod if you prefer). Using spot ranks in the DC doesn't follow precedence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Dummy Shot
    ...
    As an immediate action, you may feint against a creature attacking you. Roll your Bluff against his opposed Sense Motive. For each two points you beat his check by, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your armor class against that attack.
    I like this one. The only problem is that it uses bluff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Eagle's Eyes
    ...{table]
    [tr][td]Spot Ranks[/td] [td]Effect[/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]4-8[/td] [td]+1 to ranged attack rolls; maximum range x1.5[/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]9-13[/td] [td]+2 to ranged attack rolls; maximum range x2[/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]14-18[/td] [td]+3 to ranged attack rolls; +1d4 to ranged damage; maximum range x2.5[/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]19+[/td] [td]+5 to ranged attack rolls; +2d4 to ranged damage; maximum range x3[/td][/tr]
    [/table]
    This is really hard to read. I'm going to skip a little. I don't have time to look up the freezing, shocking and flaming burst properties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Flaming Arrow
    ...
    This is better than burning blade simply because it's a ranged attack. Even if the opposing meathead is adjacent to you, you can take the 5' step, avoid the AoO, and still get the full attack (against him or his allies including the squishy mage). With BB, you have to be adjacent to an enemy or 5' away to get a full attack. I'd say make this level 2 and you're good to go (probably).
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Hail of Arrows
    I made one very similar to this (i think i even called it 'hail of arrows'- maybe I'm the theif ) that allowed you to make a single attack vs. all enemies in a cone. Great minds think alike i guess. I forget which level it was though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Lightning Arrow
    As flaming arrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Lightning Fury
    Falling Star (Boost) [Electricity]
    Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: One Falling Star Maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    ...
    When you initiate this maneuver, you may immediately move up to your speed. This does not count as your normal movement for the round, so you can immediately move again or perform a full-attack. If you do attack this round, all your attacks deal an additional 2d6 points of electrical damage.
    Wow! This is sort of like haste 3.0. It's only for 1 round but still. I'd go 3.5 haste if you really want to do this. If you keep it as it is, then I don't know. The way it's worded, you could make melee attacks. I think just about every warrior will dip to get this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis
    Multiple Shot
    Falling Star (Strike)
    ...
    When you use this strike, you focus with supernatural ability and fire off an extra shot during this round. As part of this maneuver, you take a full attack action and make your normal ranged attacks. However, you also make one additional attack this round at your highest attack bonus. All the attacks you make this round, including the extra attack granted by this maneuver, are made with a -2 penalty.
    Like fire arrow, his is better than flashing sun because it's a ranged attack. Of course flashing sun is a bit weak IMO (especially for a 2/3 BAB class). Also, you could get rapid shot by now. I guess 2nd level is just fine. btw, i assume you can use this maneuver with rapid shot yes? If so, i'd specify that you can and that the penalties stack.
    Well, I have to go now.
    Last edited by Glittersamas; 2007-02-19 at 10:03 AM. Reason: the opposing meathead

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    Planetar

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    Post Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    I really like this, and I don't think it's overpowered, despite the critics.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    I had the idea of making an archer when buying ToB, and I was sadly disappointed. Fax; big props for making this. ^_^ I'll actually have some criticism when I have some time.
    Last edited by Eldmor; 2007-02-21 at 08:42 AM.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Minor reformatting and editing (mostly due to forgetting that the burst properties deal +1d6 on regular strikes).

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quite win. I didn't respond to this when I first read it THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO since I hadn't gotten ahold of ToB yet. Now, though, me double likey.

    ...wonder if I could run a swordsage using both D1's Twin Spirit and Falling Star...

    Time for some horseback drive-bys.
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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Is it _standard_ for maneuver DC to be based on skill ranks?

    Because skill ranks (even without modifiers, just ranks) go up really, really fast compared to other ways of raising save DC.

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    Is it _standard_ for maneuver DC to be based on skill ranks?

    Because skill ranks (even without modifiers, just ranks) go up really, really fast compared to other ways of raising save DC.
    Compare the standard rate (10 + Levels + Mod) versus the skill progression (5 + Ranks + Mod), assuming a mod of +0 for simplicity's sake:

    {table=head]Level | Standard | Skill
    1 | 11 | 9
    3 | 13 | 11
    5 | 15 | 13
    10 | 20 | 18
    15 | 25 | 23
    20 | 30 | 28
    [/table]

    Average save is actually lower using 5+skill ranks, and that assumes maxing the skill.

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    Default Re: [Maneuvers] Falling Star Discipline

    Aren't creature abilities (and Stunning Fist, if I recall) more like 10+(1/2 HD)+mod? That'd be every other level.

    Similarly, with spell DC's, you can maybe gain one new spell level every other class level, so that holds to 1/2 level, as well, not full level.

    Do other maneuver save DC's base themselves on 10+levels+mod? I haven't read ToB very much and don't have it on me in any case.

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