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    Default Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    I have a theory. It's long, it's a spolier, it's not a sure thing.

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    So I've noticed a similarity between Parson and Charlie for a long time (since the M'Glad you think so line.) I think the idea has been debated on these forums and I see I'm not alone. Perhaps Charlie is a future Parson, or his Dad, or from the same earth as Parson...

    But the last comic really drove it home for me what my pet theory is: Parson is dreaming or in a coma, as he suspected early on. He is running his own scenario, and Charlie actually IS Parson, or a part of his mind.

    Why am I more sure now?: Parson claims that in the game he was making back home, Parson was going to cheat the protagonists at every phase. He was going to pull out extraordinary measures to foil their plans, he was going to force his players to cheat to beat him. This is exactly what has happened in Goblin Knob to date! No need to list all the times a brilliant stratagem failed, right?

    So, if this really is Parson's scenario, he is running it under hypnosis, under influence of a coma, in a dream, etc. In that case, Charlie really is Parson- and so much is explained. Think how much Charlie has played a role in this, yet how "behind the scenes" he really is. The behavior of Wanda and Stanley are better explained (Wanda hides spells until the last moment only to allow the first plan to fail and to allow the next plan to be possible. Stanley is making things difficult early, and takes away the dragons as they were tactically too successful. However, he recovers at just the key moment to ensure his side gets another turn.)

    The other possibility is that Parson has been randomly teleported into a universe littered with pop culture references from 2007-9 era Earth. The exact scenario he dreamed up and planned out is being played out in front of him as he watches, and the world itself is conspiring to beat him the way that he planned to conspire to beat his players. And of course Charlie just happens to be in this world, and just happens to be so similar to him (not royalty, extremely good tactically- interested in helping out Parson, perhaps selfishly.)

    I'm not saying it's a sure thing. Just that it has been well foreshadowed and just became a much more likely outcome, in my mind!
    Last edited by Jural; 2009-03-20 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    I hope not. That would be chintzy.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    well, the resemblances between Parson's scenario and the scenario he now finds himself in are uncanny, so this leads to 2 basic lines of thought along this direction:

    1) Parson is in a dream or dreamlike state, sleeping, or otherwise incapacitated and is plaing through his own scenario

    2) Erfworld is 'real' and he has been summoned there. Stanley's situation was so dire, and the summoning spell was so powerful that the perfect warlord (for the situation) was Parson, as he knows how to beat it!

    Though both require some suspension of disbelief, I much more prefer the 2nd option. Also, as the story starts in erf, I would be more inclinded to believe that this story is the story of Erfworld, rather than a 'random' scenario, a later character had been inventing!

    However, I do think that we aren't too far away from a conclusion to this arc, and I hope that all (or enough) will be explained.

    I guess it all depends on whether the 2nd 'Erfworld' further develops the activities on Erfworld, or is another story about some scenario Parson has made!
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    I'm pretty sure Erf world is real. It wasn't coincidence that Parson was transported to a world filled with pop culture references. Stanley specified that Wanda find someone who found everything safe and familiar. If Stanley instead asked for someone who understood the rules of Erf world combat, Parson wouldn't have been picked.

    Anyway, the biggest argument against this being just some coma induced fantasy and thus all in Parson's head, is how can we have a story about Erf World away from the narrative point of view of Parson if all of this is in Parson's head? Yet that is exactly what the story after Erfworld will be about. Plus there is the fact that we explicitly see Parson disappear from Earth, which we wouldn't see if Parson was dreaming this.

    Parson of course doesn't know whether any of this is real, but we as readers have evidence to make a definitive conclusion about the reality of the world Hamster is in.
    Last edited by Glome; 2009-03-20 at 11:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glome View Post

    Parson of course doesn't know whether any of this is real, but we as readers have evidence to make a definitive conclusion about the reality of the world Hamster is in.
    Do we? In your dreams, you typically have access to more information than you do in waking hours... The zapping out of the real world, etc. all can be part of a hallucination.

    That being said, I think there is a plot related reason which might blow the theory out of the water, which I think is what you are alluding to: There is more going on in Erfworld, apparently, than is necessary for the battle itself.

    1) What is the relationship between Wanda, Ansom, and Jillian?

    2) Where did Stanley come from, and why are his casters so loyal to him?

    Now there may be simple answers which haven't been revealed, but I think the fact that those questions are interwoven in the narrative speaks to Erfworld having "a life of it's own."

    Well observed.

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    Thumbs down Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    I believe it was stated that there would be more story arcs after Gobwin knob... so either Erfworld is real or Parson is in for either a quality coma, or a great quantity of comas. If it's Parson's coma world, only parson could coma into it after all. so I think it's safe to assume that erfworld is real as it would make no sense for it not to be.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Personally, I've always advocated the "Charlie is Parson making a Stable Time Loop" Theory.

    But then again, I am quite Mad
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2009-03-21 at 02:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Enough.

    This has been going on for way too long. The theories become more and more obscure, or you cling to an idea despite any evidence to the contrary.

    Time loops? One or two similar phrases that were obviously said only after talking to Charlie in the first place, who is strange and memorable by nature?

    These are seriously your 'evidence'?

    You people are starting to sound like Miko(), leaping farther and farther to conclusions that make less sense as they go, and I honestly think some of you are doing it just because you think it is funny to jump on the crackpot theory bandwagon.

    The evidence is slim, and nothing has happened in the last... what... 50 comics? More?.. that gives anything further. Not to mention the topic has already spawned so many threads it is ridiculous.

    Please stop. Even if you really refuse to (and I can't stop you from doing so), can't you keep it all on the same thread, rather than creating a new one and filling up the database with nonsense threads?

    Maybe bring up topics that are more relevant to the actual plot going on? Remember that part? The story actually happening?

    Uuuurgh.
    Last edited by Kaed; 2009-03-21 at 03:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Personally, I've always advocated the "Charlie is Parson making a Stable Time Loop" Theory.
    Quite unlikely in my opinion, as Parson and Charlie have very different personalities.
    As someone has rightly pointed out, Charlie is a coward - he only plays safe. He would not get involved in plan that had even a tiny chance of failure according to his calculations.
    Parson, on the other hand, is brave because he is ready to risk a loss if his plans would not work as he intended.
    So in terms of character development "Charlie" is a step back from "Parson" rather than a step forward as Time Loop Theory implies.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    So I've noticed a similarity between Parson and Charlie for a long time (since the M'Glad you think so line.)
    Uh, what?
    Parson only said "M'glad you think so" once, right after hearing Charlie say this, and when he was trying to imply that he had secret allies in the coalition. I thought it was supposed to be obvious that Parson was trying to enhance his bluff by speaking this line that's so much Charlie-y.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzafar View Post
    Quite unlikely in my opinion, as Parson and Charlie have very different personalities.
    As someone has rightly pointed out, Charlie is a coward - he only plays safe. He would not get involved in plan that had even a tiny chance of failure according to his calculations.
    Parson, on the other hand, is brave because he is ready to risk a loss if his plans would not work as he intended.
    So in terms of character development "Charlie" is a step back from "Parson" rather than a step forward as Time Loop Theory implies.
    Charlie has nothing to lose, and plenty to gain by holding back. You would have to be stupid or be fighting for another reason to place your limited resources up for nothing.

    Parson has everything to lose, and a magical compulsion to make him use every tactic he can to win. He is in a situation where holding back cannot possibly win, therefore no matter his normal method would be he must be reckless now. Of course this is offset by the fact the spell chose him for this scenario as a perfect warlord...so he must like/be good at recklessness.

    Either way, I disagree with Charlie being a future self/any other timey-wimey nonsense. I'm possibly considering same plane of existance, or just knows stuff. That is his schtick.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    IF charlie was a future Parson, then Charlie would need memory loss to be suprised by what Parson can do to Ansom.

    KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid, the theory that is right should be the *simplest*...

    Everyone else in some way slows down Parson, so clearly we have confirmation that it is *Bogroll* who is a future Parson.

    So lets quit these silly theories about Charlie=Parson, when it is much simpler and more logical that Bogroll=Parson! ;-)

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    I'm pretty sure ErfWord is real because we actually saw Parson vanish. And the reactions of his friends to his doing so. And we saw the people in Erfworld exist prior to his arrival, arranging a powerful summoning spell.

    If this is all happening within his head, he's truly going mad to have included all of those details.

    Plus we get to see lots of things of which he is unaware.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaed View Post
    Time loops? One or two similar phrases that were obviously said only after talking to Charlie in the first place, who is strange and memorable by nature?

    These are seriously your 'evidence'?
    Ho ho, that's where you're wrong! I don't care about similar phrases, I'm talking about h4x.

    The short version:
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    - Sizemore understands simple abbreviations and emoticons, but does not understand "kk thxbai." As "kk thxbai" comes from FPS chat and memes, it makes good sense that Erfworlders would not understand them.
    - Nobody else in the world has Eyebooks, but Charlie can "hack" into Parson's. Even assuming this is Arkendish Thinkamancy (and not that "Charlie" still has his Eyebook from the past), Charlie should not have sufficient experience with them to have come up with meme-based communication.
    - There is no Erfworld analog for "hacking." There are no computers, nor more than a single set of computer-like devices. Even if there were, it seems likely they would be Thinkamancy based - that is to say, no keyboards.
    - Charlie instantly understood "omg h4x" despite the fact that (1) "hacking" has no Erfworld analogy and (2) number-letter substitution would never have occurred to a people without keyboards.


    At the very least this suggests Charlie is from Earth; if you are a member of the Tin Foil Hat Alliance (TFHA) then this just screams Stable Time Loop

    There are, of course, alternative explanations, but there are problems with them:
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    - Charlie used Thinkamancy to get the meaning of "omg h4x" from Parson directly.
    But if Thinkamancy was capable of reading Parson's mind at this distance, why would Charlie bother acting surprised at Parson's plans. If "Charlie" were Parson, then he's just fulfilling the conditions needed to create the Stable Time Loop.
    - There are other keyboards and Eyebooks in Erfworld.
    Pure conjecture at this point, but we could be Jossed later on. Thems the breaks with TFHA Theories


    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzafar View Post
    As someone has rightly pointed out, Charlie is a coward - he only plays safe. He would not get involved in plan that had even a tiny chance of failure according to his calculations.
    Parson, on the other hand, is brave because he is ready to risk a loss if his plans would not work as he intended.
    So in terms of character development "Charlie" is a step back from "Parson" rather than a step forward as Time Loop Theory implies.
    Ah, but what if in the future Parson discovers that Erfworld is ultimately meaningless and/or silly? Since he has nothing to live for but himself, why bother risking things when it is so easy to do things the easy way?

    And, of course, there's the standard "needs to preserve the Stable Time Loop" argument, though I shy from using it very often.
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2009-03-21 at 02:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Simpler explanation, with powerful thinkamancy you get the universal translator, which gives you meanings without direct mindreading.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by dr pepper View Post
    Simpler explanation, with powerful thinkamancy you get the universal translator, which gives you meanings without direct mindreading.
    I don't know if that's really a "simpler" explanation, particularly since nobody in Erfworld seems to speak more than one language - and the same one at that.
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2009-03-21 at 03:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    but Charlie can "hack" into Parson's. Even assuming this is Arkendish Thinkamancy (and not that "Charlie" still has his Eyebook from the past), Charlie should not have sufficient experience with them to have come up with meme-based communication.
    It was mentioned somewhere that charlie has one of the tools of the titans, (prob that satellite dish) he seems to be able to do unlimited thinkamancy, and may have the same control with archons that stanley and the hammer does with dragons.

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    I think the pliers have affinity with undead (sorry, uncroaked) which is why ansom couldn't use them
    I want to see what they'll do when Wanda gets hold of them (assuming she survives the link)
    Last edited by Snowgods; 2009-03-21 at 06:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Snowgods, there's a thread for that.

    Wanda and...

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Your mind is important to us, and it may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.

    Understanding unique terminology and dialects would be covered explicitly by that if I was the recognized master of thinkamancy.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaed View Post
    *snip*
    I honestly think some of you are doing it just because you think it is funny to jump on the crackpot theory bandwagon.
    *snip*
    You should try it. The CT Bandwagon is where all the good beer is. And all the attractive girls and guys chase around the TFHA. Between them, it's a party!
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Ho ho, that's where you're wrong! I don't care about similar phrases, I'm talking about h4x.

    The short version:
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    - Sizemore understands simple abbreviations and emoticons, but does not understand "kk thxbai." As "kk thxbai" comes from FPS chat and memes, it makes good sense that Erfworlders would not understand them.
    - Nobody else in the world has Eyebooks, but Charlie can "hack" into Parson's. Even assuming this is Arkendish Thinkamancy (and not that "Charlie" still has his Eyebook from the past), Charlie should not have sufficient experience with them to have come up with meme-based communication.
    - There is no Erfworld analog for "hacking." There are no computers, nor more than a single set of computer-like devices. Even if there were, it seems likely they would be Thinkamancy based - that is to say, no keyboards.
    - Charlie instantly understood "omg h4x" despite the fact that (1) "hacking" has no Erfworld analogy and (2) number-letter substitution would never have occurred to a people without keyboards.
    ... Or maybe, you know, Charlie just knew that he wasn't supposed to be in another forces SECURE METHOD OF COMMUNICATION, and drew his conclusions as to the outbursts meaning from the context there.

    Because obviously it's more likely that Charlie is really Parson, thus understands the meaning of netspeak, instead of just being a very smart mercenary overlord who hates to lose in any way, including failing to understand the meaning of something.

    "Indeed!" Is a pretty generic response, and he even quickly changes the subject to ask what Parson is doing.
    Last edited by Kaed; 2009-03-21 at 06:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Careful Kaed, you started cutting apart the story itself there, and no, I'm not going to go into the crackpot theory side. But look just above the "Indeed!". I'll wait. lol is not something he'd know off the bat. It's quite possible that the "Eyebooks" keep all the data and that he simply looked at all the previous messages before talking to Parson. It's also not beyond the realm of imagination that he picked Parson's brain during the first conversation for any info, useless or not, and he's using this method of communication to establish "raport." However, it would be risky to slam either side at the moment unless you want to get into an arguement.

    P.S. Didn't mention "Parson=Charlie" "Charlie = From Earth" because those have already been mentioned in this thread, waste to mention again, but I need to represent both sides or else it's just me slamming one side.

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaed View Post
    ... Or maybe, you know, Charlie just knew that he wasn't supposed to be in another forces SECURE METHOD OF COMMUNICATION, and drew his conclusions as to the outbursts meaning from the context there.
    But then why this particular response? If he were just blindly reacting to a line of gibberish, why bother with "LOL" at all? "Laugh out Loud" implies a particular response to a particular stimuli - unless you think people just laugh at things they don't understand?

    Charlie is certainly jaunty, but nowhere else does he bother with acronyms - it is as if he were responding to "omg h4x" (typically said ironically) with the suitable counter-reply.

    In any case, Godskook raises an interesting point. Assuming that Charlie could do a complete brain-scan of Parson here, Charlie would have known about the Eyebooks, and the initial plan for the defense of Gobwin Knob - already in progress. And if that's true, then he would have known about Parson's plan to turn the tunnels into a Death Trap - and so he shouldn't be surprised here. Now, Charlie could still be playing along but I don't see why he'd bother - he clearly doesn't need Parson to do anything to "win" so why hide that he has already scanned Parson's mind?

    I suppose Charlie could have done a partial scan of Parson's mind, but why would he even bother to scan only the parts that involve internet memes? And if he had done a brain-scan just to find out the best way to spook Parson, why was he surprised here by Parson's responses? I don't think it hangs together well enough to wholly refute the "Charlie From Earth" theory.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellye View Post
    Uh, what?
    Parson only said "M'glad you think so" once, right after hearing Charlie say this, and when he was trying to imply that he had secret allies in the coalition. I thought it was supposed to be obvious that Parson was trying to enhance his bluff by speaking this line that's so much Charlie-y.
    There are some clear similarities between Parson and Charlie. Both of them saying "M'glad you think so" is just the first time I personally noticed it. You are correct that this was possibly Parson imitating Charlie- but there are other possibilities.

    Aside from Charlie understanding Parson, both are not royals, and both have exceedingly strong tactical minds. Both are also interested in Parson's well being, and seem to be written similarly from an intellectual standpoint.

    I don't think Parson and Charlie can be the same person, time loop and all, however. They don't speak in the same vocabulary, and I have the impression Charlie really is surprised about what Parson is going to do.

    However... my theory doesn't require them to be the same! However, there are a lot of "outside the comic" and plot given reasons to imagine my theory is wrong... it would certainly be odd if there were future Erfworld comics (I thought it was ending here) and there seems to be a lot of backstory and information which may be superfluous to this conflict (although the Wanda-Jack-Stanley-Jillian-Ansom backstory really needs some clarification... and not a Parson's log!)

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jural View Post
    There are some clear similarities between Parson and Charlie. Both of them saying "M'glad you think so" is just the first time I personally noticed it. You are correct that this was possibly Parson imitating Charlie- but there are other possibilities.
    If these other possibilities had any validity, then Parson would have used Charlie-like language elsewhere. It was a pretended slip, if it were a real slip then it would have been repeated.
    Last edited by ishnar; 2009-03-22 at 01:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaed View Post
    Enough.

    This has been going on for way too long. The theories become more and more obscure, or you cling to an idea despite any evidence to the contrary.

    Time loops? One or two similar phrases that were obviously said only after talking to Charlie in the first place, who is strange and memorable by nature?
    You know, you can always choose not to read these forums or posts if they bother you. Although +20 for the avatar! And I like the big font.

    Seriously, I don't really get where you are coming from. EW:147, with it's reference to Parson's homebrew scenario and confirmation that this world has been running just like Parson was going to run his homebrew, really cemented the possibility in my mind, especially as the Saline IV comment referenced the same thing. I'm not saying it's a lock, just putting it out there.

    It's the first time I posted it, how can that be enough?

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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    If these other possibilities had any validity, then Parson would have used Charlie-like language elsewhere. It was a pretended slip, if it were a real slip then it would have been repeated.
    I agree this is a possible interpretation. The characters could have said the same phrase due to some gamesmanship by Parson. Or the author could be setting up a comparison between the two. Or, both.

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    ishnar's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jural View Post
    I agree this is a possible interpretation. The characters could have said the same phrase due to some gamesmanship by Parson. Or the author could be setting up a comparison between the two. Or, both.
    What matters isn't "is it possible" but "Is it likely"

    It's possible that if we wave our hands up and down really fast we can fly, but is it likely?

    It's very obvious from context that Parson was using this phrase specifically to mess with Ansom's head. Context....

    Context. Yes, on a low gravity world with a thick atmosphere, you probably could fly by waving your arms, and basically swim through the air, but unless you are on said low gravity world with a higher air pressure than Earth, then it's not likely. Even though it is still possible.

    It's possible to make a triangle with three 90 degree corners. Context. On a flat surface it is not likely, but on a sphere it is likely.
    Last edited by ishnar; 2009-03-22 at 02:14 AM.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
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    May 2007

    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Parson is not, by a long shot, the only one in Erfworld who speaks netsp33k.

    Look at The Very First Time We See An EyeBook On The Very Second Page Of The Comic

    Jeeze.
    Last edited by Fishy; 2009-03-22 at 05:51 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Dec 2004
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    Default Re: Charlie and Parson- Confirmation in EW: 147?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
    Parson is not, by a long shot, the only one in Erfworld who speaks netsp33k.

    Look at The Very First Time We See An EyeBook On The Very Second Page Of The Comic

    Jeeze.
    Dude, that just means that Stanley's from Earth too. I bet he's Parson's grandchild from the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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