Erfworld 150 - tBfGK - 137

[Suicide Junkie]

Was he? I don't recall seeing that specified, and someone, in some thread a while back, posted a picture of FAQ that had a guy who looked exactly like Sizemore snoozing against a tree.

Sizemore himself said that he popped under Saline IV, not Banhammer.

[Oslecamo]

On the contrary, all the evidence points to Charlie following his contracts to the letter. He does not, however, do anything not specified in the contract unless it is in his own best interest.

But the archons seem to have a free will of their own. We all know how the other one warned Jillian that she was mind-controled, and she comented on how Charlie taught them that rules must be bent sometimes.

Also, altough technically speaking Charlie follows the contracts to the letter, that is hardly a sign of honesty when he changes his contracts at last minute to take advantage of the situation, including making super-big contracts wich the contractor has no time to read but must acept out of desesperation, or raising his prices to the sky for some time so he benefits the guy he was fighting not 5 minutes ago.

[Name Lips]

B
Also, altough technically speaking Charlie follows the contracts to the letter, that is hardly a sign of honesty when he changes his contracts at last minute to take advantage of the situation, including making super-big contracts wich the contractor has no time to read but must acept out of desesperation, or raising his prices to the sky for some time so he benefits the guy he was fighting not 5 minutes ago.

I believe that's called Lawful Evil.

[Daelach]

Charlie has just lost a LOT of archons, and he can't really have many more otherwise he would simply have conquered Efworld by now since an archon is at least as strong as a dwagon. He will need a lot of time to recover from it.

If he ever recovers. Now that he's on his last troops, Charlie is ripe for attacking from his rivals. Aka Stanley the Tool.

Charlie is certainly ripe for attacking but not from Stanley. Stanley has also lost most of his units and is now a barbarian. His entire force consists of himself, six dwagons (five of which are likely mounted by KISS), one foolamancer, one thinkamancer-croakamancer-dirtamancer combo (Parson never ordered them to break the link), and one chief warlord. Heck, the portal to the magic kingdom is probably destroyed so half that list is likely not even available.

My guess on what happens next:

Stanley will have to found some sort of city. He needs a city to create new units. He also needs a source of income to pay upkeep on the few (expensive) units he does have. The city might provide that income or he might have to do something else.

As to where the city will be located -- he could either re-occupy Gobwin Knob (assuming the Volcano quiets) or he could found a veiled city (Faq style) elsewhere. I'm still pretty sure the comic will focus on Gobwin Knob. This is partially because of the title but there is also a known artifact there.

I'm pretty sure that the red warlord dies in this comic. Thus, the arkenpliers will be buried somewhere the Gobwin Knob hex. This will cause every coalition in the world to try and take control of of the Knob. Once in control of the Knob, a side will probably start "mining" to look for the pliers.

I doubt that the RCC will stay together after such a huge loss. Going forward, the "game" represented by the comic will turn into a free-for-all king-of-the-hill match-up. And Parson will somehow be in the middle trying to play every side against every other.

[dr pepper]

I'm still pretty sure the comic will focus on Gobwin Knob. This is partially because of the title but there is also a known artifact there.

The title is "Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob". The title next time will be "Erfworld: Something Else". Gobwin Knob might or might not be involved.

[Goshen]

What is an "Erf"?

[fendrin]

What is an "Erf"?

Dwagon : Dragon :: Erf : Earth

[BillyArell]

If I recall correctly Ansom was never properly attuned with the arkenpliers. All he could do was turn undead to dust. In contrast Stanely is attuned with the arkenhammer and he can wield the powers of the dragons.

Perhaps the red warlord could be the arkenpliers true wielder and have unlocked its higher power. This could allow her to potentially survive the eruption. Just a theory really.

[Kreistor]

I believe that Stanley wasn't behind it. Not only was he bound by Duty and Loyalty to Saline IV, but "can't plot against" was explicitly stated as a function of those mechanics. Also, Stanley is such a poor strategist that his capability to put together a coup which works is in grave doubt. Finally, I don't think he was involved for the same reason I don't think he was the one who conquered FAQ, it seems to pat and simple, and I expect more complexity in the details.

34.8 Ansom believes Stanley commited regicide. If there was no possibility of it, the word wouldn't exist. And Ansom wouldn't consider it even possible.

Somehow, it must be possible. I can see how he gets past Obedience... he only has to believe that he obeys higher orders, say from the Titans.

Loyalty affects a unit only when he is double-dealing or defecting. That might not kick in here. Perhaps he could convince himself that his loyalty is to the side, not the ruler, and thus he could feel he is destined to rule, and then he's still being loyal to the side.

Duty is the stickler. It says, "Can't conspire against the Ruler." But it also says, "Has higher affect on Warlords...". Okay, hold it. In one place it says that it has an increasing strength as rank increases, but the last sentence says that it is an absolute? That's inconsistent. With Ansom believing it can happen, and that inconsistency, I'm going to have to say that Parson simply didn't have the full story. There's wiggle room: there has to be. Parson thinks there has to be, but he lacks experience to count: he's no expert on Erfworld yet.

Maybe the Arkentools allow a greater degree of freedom about things like Duty and Loyalty? Charlie, the only other person we've seen who's attuned to their artefact, is not exactly known for consistency of support and assistance supposedly guaranteed by contract. Stanley found the Arkenhammer, attuned to it, and was granted command of dwagons. Saline IV recognised this as a useful ability, and promoted him to warlord, and eventually to chief overlord and heir. With loads of dwagons in their army, and more warlords than just Stanley, GK conquered lots of cities. However, power-mad and convinced of his own superiority, and strangely un-hindered by Duty and Loyalty now that he's heir apparent and in possession of an attuned Arkentool, Stanley arranges with the Gobwins to stage a coup while he's in the field, and acts surprised upon return to find Saline IV croaked. He's got lots of dwagons with him, so it's no trouble to make it appear as though the treacherous Gobwins have been massacred, then assume the throne of GK. And then, since he's thick as some of the stuff we've seen Sizemore dealing with, he goes and loses all the other cities he had control of, in a quest to find and control the other Arkentools.

Conceivable. At the very least, the Arkentool probably inspired Stanley to overcome Obedience just by attuning to him. It's not magically responsible: Stanley would basically feel that he was chosen and destined, and so he could view himself being ordered to rule by the Titans. Whether it makes him immune to Duty? Not going to guess. Possible. Necessary? I think we don't know enough yet to say it must be.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Not true. Parson said it in Wanda and Sizemore's presence, and they confirmed it.

Er, no. That page shows Sizemore confirming Parson's previous point; neither Sizemore nor Wanda said anything in response to his comment regarding casting on the opponent's turn. They neither confirmed nor denied it.

Thanks to Occasional Sage for the Titans info. It's nice to have a definitive answer once in a while.

[Fjolnir]

Quick question, are we so sure that panel in panel 3 the person who is front row focused isn't Scarlette? I can't tell what it is they're holding in their bright red fingers but it could be the pliers, pressed against their head as she screams in agony...

[ishnar]

.

Unlikely. There's a cloth golem burning in panel two, none in panel one. In panel one they're near the city walls, in panel two they're being carried down the volcano slope by a lava river.

Since I'm saying this is the "I"m going to die moment" physics doesn't necessarily apply. In stories, the head antagonist of the moment gets to reflect on their impending demise, even if they are shot without warning, by laser beams, or a supersonic bullet. This is even more commonly true in comic books, and the character doesn't necessarily have any special powers.

Character shoots supersonic bullet, main antagonist of the moment turns and looks up at the protagonist , even though there is no reason too, mouths "Oh sh.."--even though the gunner is too far away and effectively invisible due to cover, then crosses his eyes and watches the bullet fly in just above his nose, and then gets hit in the head by the supersonic bullet.

[Kreistor]

Er, no. That page shows Sizemore confirming Parson's previous point; neither Sizemore nor Wanda said anything in response to his comment regarding casting on the opponent's turn. They neither confirmed nor denied it.

You might want to check out the Blooper thread, where everything Parson stated in frame 3 has been confirmed. I personally think it is blatantly obvious that Parson is merely repeating the lessons about magic he just received off-panel. You can go ahead and think that Parson makes up magic rules for fun and profit, but I highly recommend you re-read that section and consider the possibility that he's correct because he has been told, and isn't just lucky to have guessed those rules.

[glissle]

If that were the entire story, then Stanley must not have involvement in his own ascension to ruler status. If there was absolutely no possibility of free will, he could not have been behind the gobwin betrayal of Saline. I doubt there are many that truly believe that he wasn't behind it.

Since both known attuned users of Arkentools are non-royal Overlords, I also suspect that attuning to an Arkentool may free one from Natural Thinkamancy. If that were the case, and if Wanda lost the Arkenpliers after attuning to them, it would explain a lot about her control-freakiness. She's had a taste of freedom most non-royals can't conceive of (and that royals don't appreciate, having been born with it - I forget where, but I got that impression from one of the conversations with Jillian).

[Kreistor]

Er, no. That page shows Sizemore confirming Parson's previous point; neither Sizemore nor Wanda said anything in response to his comment regarding casting on the opponent's turn. They neither confirmed nor denied it.

You might want to check out the Blooper thread, where everything Parson stated in frame 3 has been confirmed. I personally think it is blatantly obvious that Parson is merely repeating the lessons about magic he just received off-panel. You can go ahead and think that Parson makes up magic rules for fun and profit, but I highly recommend you re-read that section and consider the possibility that he's correct because he has been told, and isn't just lucky to have guessed those rules.

[Pointyleaf]

I'm pretty sure that the red warlord dies in this comic. Thus, the arkenpliers will be buried somewhere the Gobwin Knob hex. This will cause every coalition in the world to try and take control of of the Knob. Once in control of the Knob, a side will probably start "mining" to look for the pliers.

I doubt that the RCC will stay together after such a huge loss. Going forward, the "game" represented by the comic will turn into a free-for-all king-of-the-hill match-up. And Parson will somehow be in the middle trying to play every side against every other.

I highly doubt, after getting their @sses kicked all over the place, that all the other nations are going to try to come to take GK for the pliers. On top of that, who wants to mount a digging expedition in a recently exploding volcano? Nuh-uh, not me.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Character shoots supersonic bullet, main antagonist of the moment turns and looks up at the protagonist , even though there is no reason too, mouths "Oh sh.."--even though the gunner is too far away and effectively invisible due to cover, then crosses his eyes and watches the bullet fly in just above his nose, and then gets hit in the head by the supersonic bullet.

The point here is that the whole scene in panel 1 is different, way different, from panel 2. In your example, the background wouldn't usually change much. So, likely this is not the freeze frame of "Oh, boop" followed by gory death.

[fendrin]

I highly doubt, after getting their @sses kicked all over the place, that all the other nations are going to try to come to take GK for the pliers. On top of that, who wants to mount a digging expedition in a recently exploding volcano? Nuh-uh, not me.

When the overlord says "Dig!" you ask "How deep?"

Not like the grunts get a choice.

[Kreistor]

When the overlord says "Dig!" you ask "How deep?"

It takes more than an order to dig. It takes military force to deal with anyone else interested in the pliers, diplomats to try to stavve off aggression, and so on. This would be an archaeological dig under fire: not a commander's favorite mission. It's really bad escort duty, where what you're escorting isn't moving and is extremely vulnerable.

[BillyJimBoBob]

My position is that Stanley isn't bright enough to have arranged for the coup. If he could disregard the loyalty issues, I would expect him to go for a frontal assault. Heck, even if he was that devious, it's just not his style.

My thoughts exactly. Stanley is so poor strategically that seems improbable that he could pull off a successful coup, even if he was allowed to violate his Loyalty and Duty obligations.

"I popped under the reign of King Saline IV."
This is not Sizemore.

Thanks! The second strip panel 4 sure looks like Sizemore, but the first strip does make it quite clear.

34.8 Ansom believes Stanley commited regicide. If there was no possibility of it, the word wouldn't exist. And Ansom wouldn't consider it even possible.

Somehow, it must be possible. I can see how he gets past Obedience... he only has to believe that he obeys higher orders, say from the Titans.
[...]
Perhaps he could convince himself that his loyalty is to the side, not the ruler, and thus he could feel he is destined to rule, and then he's still being loyal to the side.

Or perhaps if it's for the greater good of the side, not that this has been described anywhere. It's one of the rather unclear points. Ansom says it's regicide, but perhaps he has motives which make it a convenient charge. Vinny replies "kinda", which leaves things very undetermined.

Duty is the stickler. It says, "Can't conspire against the Ruler." But it also says, "Has higher affect on Warlords...". Okay, hold it. In one place it says that it has an increasing strength as rank increases, but the last sentence says that it is an absolute? That's inconsistent. With Ansom believing it can happen, and that inconsistency, I'm going to have to say that Parson simply didn't have the full story. There's wiggle room: there has to be. Parson thinks there has to be, but he lacks experience to count: he's no expert on Erfworld yet.

Or Duty could have a stronger effect as rank increases, as far as the effects on Parson we've seen. Parson had to order the trimancer rather than relying on his battle calculation to let him not risk the three casters on an unknown attempt to wake the volcano. A unit with a lower Duty might not have to go all out like that, but still could be absolutely prevented from conspiring against.

And then there is the battle right before Stanley took off. He says "I don't know if you've betrayed me, or just failed me." Which tends to give the impression that betrayal is quite possible even by the highest ranking units, including Parson who is a Warlord.

It's a muddle, for sure.

[joosy]

regarding the whole Mystery of FAQ

We know that FAQ disappeared in one turn - and that there were reports of dragons.

We know that Wanda and Jack both used to be part of FAQ but are now loyal to Stanley.

We know that Jillian is the de facto leader of FAQ but is now a barbarian.

We don't know how many former FAQ forces she commands. So far all we have seen are chewy/crunchy Gwiffons and those are dwindling in number all the time. It's not important to know, just an observation.

What we know of loyalty comes mainly from:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0094.html

"Loyalty - An unknowable unit stat, affecting how likely a unit is to defect or double-deal with possible. Thinkamancy spells can modify Loyalty."

We are also told that captured units "have notoriously low Loyalty, that is why it is reserved for valuable casters."
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0110.html

We know that Wanda is under no Loyalty spell so its inferred that the serves Stanley of her own free will. It is still possible that Jack is under a loyalty spell, of course, but that is not important in this observation.

So.. Wanda may have had low Loyalty to FAQ to begin with - but wouldn't that transfer to low loyalty to Stanley as well? If so, she has Stanley fooled - up until the loss of the dragons over the lake she was trusted completely. It should be noted that Wanda HAS been keeping things from Stanley re: Jillian such as the fact that she was the leader of and even from FAQ. She does not even offer it as a reason as to why Jillian hates Stanley:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html

I'm assuming this is because Wanda thinks that has no bearing on her Duty to Stanley. We've seen Wanda stretch the limit of Duty by concealing information, standing up to Stanley, planning Stanley's rescue(although that one would be Duty to Stanley vs Parson).

OR Wanda still has loyalty to FAQ and for some reason that Loyalty has been transferred to Stanley. The answer to that question lies in the mystery of what happened to FAQ.

Wanda has had Jillian in private conversations for some time but apparently has no loyalty to her even though she technically is FAQ's leader. It is implied that she has not divulged what happened to FAQ to Jillian.

It does strike me as odd that Jillian has never asked Wanda what happened in FAQ - but that could be explained by assuming that Jillian
1) Assumes her version of things is correct and
2) Assumes that Wanda is under a loyalty spell to Stanley.

Since 1) is dubious and 2) has been undermined by Archon Jacqueline, it throws things back into uncertainty for Jillian. The next time they meet I'm sure Jillian is going into her Ricky Ricardo act: "Wanda, you have some 'splaining to do"

I would guess that Rob is hinting that Wanda, although bound by Duty like any other unit, has a gameplan of her own and/or has her own twisted sense of Loyalty and Duty.

Of course, it could very well be just another MacGuffin being used to further the plot and to add drama between the two sides (Jillian and Wanda).

Whether it is or isn't important it is standard in storytelling. You don't go into exposition explaining every last thing other wise it detracts from the story and certainly ruins the drama/tension. You have to leave some things a mystery :) I mean if Star Wars Episode IV had Kenobi reveal that Vader was Anakin Skywalker, if Keyser Soze had been identified immediately, or if Citizen Kane has started out with "my sled was named Rosebud" those stories wouldn't have been so memorable.

I mean, now that you know the story when you play the inevitable table top game the first thing you are going to do is "link the casters and uncroak the volcano", right? :) Takes all of the fun out of it.

Thanks again to Rob and Jaime for such careful storytelling, in creating this rich and awesome Erfworld. May your detractors keep rotting in the sun-bereft, dankest corner of their mother's sub-basement.

[ishnar]

The point here is that the whole scene in panel 1 is different, way different, from panel 2. In your example, the background wouldn't usually change much. So, likely this is not the freeze frame of "Oh, boop" followed by gory death.

Although I reserve the right to be wrong now and again, in this case I'd attribute the difference in scenery to the cataclysmic effect of standing in the caldera of an erupting volcano.

[kynalvarus]

The Erf cast page is broken ATM, but archive.org saves the day!

http://tinyurl.com/dny7lw

The Arkenhammer is described as having the following weaknesses: Inconspicuousness, Clarity of Purpose, Personal Taste in Friends.

Now, normally, it would seem very unlikely that a Chief Warlord and Heir would plot a coup against his sovereign. Loyalty and Duty would seem to prevent it. However, who can know the true purpose of the Arkentools? I'd expect that they could override Natural Thinkamancy and produce all sorts of unlikely behavior in their wielders.

The Titans work in mysterious ways...

[Rebarth]

Not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzOb3...eature=related ?

My friends... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw6H3crLzpg THIS is the song that plays during the strip

[talse]

I did up the last panel in a fitting way.

[HandofShadows]

Looks good talse. Some alternate test idea's.

"We are SOOOOO screwed"

"Look at the preaty colors!"

"We are so booping dead."

"Look out! Their remaking the movie "Volcano!""

[Kreistor]

"I don't think the umbrellas are going to cut it!"