Tomb of Horrors

[Adumbration]

This weekend I'm planning on running Tomb of Horrors. I'm not an experienced DM - I've had a try once before - but I've been subjected to it twice before, as well as two other players. I will be running it to a group of 5, of which the before-mentioned two are fairly experienced, and the rest are fairly new. Don't worry, though, we never got to the end of it, not even near, so they should be able to enjoy it as well.

I would appreciate general advice on how to run the ToH, but I also have a specific question: How should I handle death? It's going to be given that there'll be deaths, even several, possibly a few TPKs. A few will be accounted to the Head, unless the new ones are warned.

Our previous DM used rings of 3 wishes that could only be used to resurrect, but this seems a bit unsatisfactory to me. I have a few alternatives that I've been thinking.

A) Players die without mercy, but when all but 1 or 2 are dead or a TPK has occured, they are all automatically resurrected and cured of all ailments. This means that it is possible that a few players will have to sit back and watch while others play, but that this will be the only punishment of death and - due to fewer people to face the challenges - it might not take long before the reset occurs. The problem with this is that this is quite artificial solution, and the dead players may get bored just watching.

B) Another idea I've been playing with is giving the players each 3 times that they may rewind the time back up to 10 minutes to correct the mistake that lead to their demise. I could use opinions on this one.

C) Ring of 3 resurrections.

The party will be 10th level - I'm trying to compensate for their relative inexperience - and at the moment I know that 1 of them will be a Psion, and one of them a Monk.

[Myou]

Giving each a ring sounds like it would work. :3

On a sidenote, has ToH been updated to 3.5?

[Kol Korran]

sorry, i can't give any advice except for the following: don't play this adventure with new players... new players get attached to their characters, and thus fill realy, realy bad when they die especially the absurd deaths of ToH. experienced players can handle the experience easeir, new players don't.
also- new players don't fully understand the options of 10th level. they will be bewildered. use lower levels, or better yet- play some other adventure.
also- new players learn most and internelise most from their first experience in the game. so unless you want pessimistic, paranoid, overly cautious players in the future, don't play this adventure.

it is made for experienced players, who know full well what's in store, for a quick game of not importent characters. i think this isn't the case with your new players.

got no advice for the "rise from the dead part". always thought the death mortality in this adventure was way over the board...
i know i haven't been much help to you, but i just don't think what you're planning will be fun for all those involved.
Kol.

[JeenLeen]

If you're using the 3.0/3.5 updated version on the http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a, I'm not sure how big a concern death might be if the experienced players are optimized. I ran it once and the only trouble the party had were some of the battles, but the ToB guy solved that. An optimized lv. 9 rogue found the traps. I ran the mistake the letting one of them buy a Wand of Find Secret Doors, though, which really ruined everything. (I was purposely trying to run everything RAW to let the party have a chance to be really broken.)

For death: I would say either backup characters if your players really enjoy character creation and trying different ideas. Otherwise the rings sound like a nice idea. The total party restored after a TPK seems lame and unrealistic, removing a cost to dying. Backing up time could be funny, though, especially if they die multiple times trying to solve or disable the same trap.

[Volkov]

Make sure your party has a talisman of the sphere on their hand, or the part of the tomb that kills the most adventurers of all will prove to be impossible to deal with.

[Adumbration]

sorry, i can't give any advice except for the following: don't play this adventure with new players... new players get attached to their characters, and thus fill realy, realy bad when they die especially the absurd deaths of ToH. experienced players can handle the experience easeir, new players don't.
also- new players don't fully understand the options of 10th level. they will be bewildered. use lower levels, or better yet- play some other adventure.
also- new players learn most and internelise most from their first experience in the game. so unless you want pessimistic, paranoid, overly cautious players in the future, don't play this adventure.

it is made for experienced players, who know full well what's in store, for a quick game of not importent characters. i think this isn't the case with your new players.

got no advice for the "rise from the dead part". always thought the death mortality in this adventure was way over the board...
i know i haven't been much help to you, but i just don't think what you're planning will be fun for all those involved.
Kol.

As a matter of fact, I can dispute that. Me and the two other experienced players were in pretty much same stage when we played it, and we did have fun. We're not going to play it seriously, as such - at the very least the more experienced players will take care of that.

I also know these people, and I think they can handle it.

[BlueWizard]

Just let them know how dangerous it is.

The PC deaths are part of the game... at least my games.
And this one is one of the most dangerous of all D&D adventures.

[Curmudgeon]

Don't do anything special except to give the following advice:

1) Make sure you've got a Rogue who is very good at dealing with traps. The DMG has items that help with Search.
2) The party needs a Cleric with spontaneous Cures and other types of healing magic ready, plus lots of buffing spells.

[BlueWizard]

A cleric specialized in healing.

[Atelm]

As a matter of fact, I can dispute that. Me and the two other experienced players were in pretty much same stage when we played it, and we did have fun. We're not going to play it seriously, as such - at the very least the more experienced players will take care of that.

I also know these people, and I think they can handle it.

Listen to Mr A, for he knows us.

I'm going to be the Monk on said play through, and one of the two experienced players mentioned. I'm fairly confident that the new players can handle it, they've never been all too attached to their characters previously (at least not in the games we've played that I've DMed.).

I must say, I'm looking forward to it, I made it my goal to improve my Monk's saves as much as possible, while still making him an able combatant, the current tally of saves stands at Fort: 13 Ref: 16 Will: 15. While not nearly high enough to give him even reasonable chances of success against certain stuff, it's at least better than my previous Tomb of Horrors character's saves.

[monty]

Don't do anything special except to give the following advice:

1) Make sure you've got a Rogue who is very good at dealing with traps. The DMG has items that help with Search.
2) The party needs a Cleric with spontaneous Cures and other types of healing magic ready, plus lots of buffing spells.

Or better yet, a cleric (preferably cloistered) with the Kobold domain. And a second one just in case.

[Lapak]

If three are fairly new, I'm assuming that we're not talking about long-established characters that the players are personally invested in, that worked their way up through the levels to reach a power range appropriate for the Tomb?

If that's the case, the 'best' way to handle this - in the sense of making the Tomb live up to its deadly reputation - may be the classic-module way: either create or have them create a second and third character each so there are a pile of pre-generated characters on standby. Every time they suffer a death or two, they can retreat from the Tomb and recruit some new friends.

Nothing like an increasing stack of deceased character sheets to indicate that a place is indeed dangerous. Of course, this assumes that you're NOT using characters that the players are already heavily invested in, but it doesn't sound like you are?

[Atelm]

We are doing this as a stand-alone module, therefore we're making characters specifically for it and not as a part of an established campaign.

[Curmudgeon]

Or better yet, a cleric (preferably cloistered) with the Kobold domain. And a second one just in case.

Even two such Clerics aren't an adequate substitute for an optimized Rogue. The Kobold domain adds Search and Disable Device to the Cleric's class skills, but parts of ToH also need Spot and/or Listen, which are still cross-class. Plus the "presence" traps (i.e., triggered just by being in a certain place) really benefit from good Reflex saves and evasion. And you'll burn through spells that substitute for Open Lock at quite a pace.

I really like Cloistered Clerics, but the cross-class skills are a major problem if you're trying to substitute them for Rogues.

[Lapak]

We are doing this as a stand-alone module, therefore we're making characters specifically for it and not as a part of an established campaign.

Then yeah. Have them make 3 or so apiece, and don't give them too much trouble if they try to retreat through areas they've already covered to gather reinforcements. That's how I'd run it.

[SoD]

Don't let anyone stick their head in a demons mouth.

[Atelm]

Don't let anyone stick their head in a demons mouth.

Aaw, but it was much fun last time when the party Barbarian did that.

[Seffbasilisk]

Make sure your party has a talisman of the sphere on their hand, or the part of the tomb that kills the most adventurers of all will prove to be impossible to deal with.

Really? My players were too paranoid to fall into it.

[Jack_Simth]

Even two such Clerics aren't an adequate substitute for an optimized Rogue. The Kobold domain adds Search and Disable Device to the Cleric's class skills, but parts of ToH also need Spot and/or Listen, which are still cross-class. Plus the "presence" traps (i.e., triggered just by being in a certain place) really benefit from good Reflex saves and evasion. And you'll burn through spells that substitute for Open Lock at quite a pace.

I really like Cloistered Clerics, but the cross-class skills are a major problem if you're trying to substitute them for Rogues.

Nah. Make a Reserve Mage Wizard. Elemental Summoning + one of the ranged direct-damage reserve feats + Permanent Arcane Sight (you can also do this with a Cloistered Cleric or a Druid, but it's harder).

Arcane Sight automatically tells you what items within 120 feet are magical. Have one of each of the elementals precede you everywhere by as much range as possible (the Summoning ends if the critter is more than 30 feet from you at the end of your turn - which means an Air Elemental, conjured at the limit of your range, and then doing a full run vanishes roughly 430 feet from you). Blast anything that's magic until it's not magic anymore, don't stick anything through where you can't see, and make sure you can survive a day without air (make sure you have a bottle of air, Necklace of Adaptation, or that one Ioun stone; alternately, be of the Undead or Construct type), and you should be fine ... if you can deal with the monsters.

[Chronos]

Nah. Make a Reserve Mage Wizard. Elemental Summoning + one of the ranged direct-damage reserve feats + Permanent Arcane Sight (you can also do this with a Cloistered Cleric or a Druid, but it's harder).

Better yet, make all of the characters able to deal with traps, each in a different way: A standard optimized skillmonkey, a reserve wizard, a kobold cloistered cleric, etc. That way, if you lose one character for some reason (and I have no clue how that could possibly happen in the Tomb of Horrors), the others can make do at least long enough to get back to the surface for reinforcements, and if you encounter a situation which is for some reason resistant to one character's methods, another character can hopefully handle it.

Don't look at it as multiple choice; take all of the above.

[Jack_Simth]

Better yet, make all of the characters able to deal with traps, each in a different way: A standard optimized skillmonkey, a reserve wizard, a kobold cloistered cleric, etc. That way, if you lose one character for some reason (and I have no clue how that could possibly happen in the Tomb of Horrors), the others can make do at least long enough to get back to the surface for reinforcements, and if you encounter a situation which is for some reason resistant to one character's methods, another character can hopefully handle it.

Don't look at it as multiple choice; take all of the above.

Catch: You do need to be able to deal with the handful of non-negotiable monsters in the module... and they're a bit over the standard CR.

[Colmarr]

A) Players die without mercy, but when all but 1 or 2 are dead or a TPK has occured, they are all automatically resurrected and cured of all ailments.

I like this idea. It's quite Sysiphisian or Promethean in its cruelty.

The PCs get to die over and over again, which each death being more distressing than the last...